Israel and Palestine Conflict Heats Up

[Easo]

They didn't as far as we can tell.

They targeted an office for journalist after warning the journalists, https://apnews.com/article/israel-we...e5fc2f8c7d8a79 - that's not how you target journalists.

Whether Hamas actually used the same house or not isn't clear; it's a convenient excuse for Israel to reduce the coverage of the conflict, but it's also convenient for Hamas to use the same building as journalists to hide (both because it's less likely to be targeted, and also because it was a tall building with a good view).

Pretty sure Endus and others implied destruction of TV building as attack on media, not that Israeli's bombed people, specifically. It was reported everywhere that warning came and they evacuated.
As for the excuse - yes, it is convenient. The building was shared, 60 appartments + TV stations. We know Hamas members specifically live together with civilians for the purpose of human shields, we don't know if this building was one of those.
He said, she said.

[Forogil]

That's . . . literally targeting journalists.

You forgot the word "NOT".

[Endus]

You forgot the word "NOT".

I forgot nothing.

Targeting their workplaces and broadcast locations is still targeting journalists, even without fatalities. You're just playing ridiculous semantic games to try and avoid admitting to the basic facts at hand.

[ati87]

Pretty sure Endus and others implied destruction of TV building as attack on media, not that Israeli's bombed people, specifically. It was reported everywhere that warning came and they evacuated.
As for the excuse - yes, it is convenient. The building was shared, 60 appartments + TV stations. We know Hamas members specifically live together with civilians for the purpose of human shields, we don't know if this building was one of those.
He said, she said.

I sometimes seriously wonder how entitled people think Palestinians are actually.
First off you that stupid "human shields argument" is a propaganda argument used by the Israeli military to justify killing civilians, literal argument is "it's not our fault that they died...it's them"

Where do you want anybody in Gaza to live? Including members of Hamas? I mean maybe it's time for Hamas to build a army base so everybody can just go live there, would that be convenient? But before Hamas can start building a army base that allows for housing Israel does need to end the blockade.

[Theodarzna]

Pretty sure Endus and others implied destruction of TV building as attack on media, not that Israeli's bombed people, specifically. It was reported everywhere that warning came and they evacuated.
As for the excuse - yes, it is convenient. The building was shared, 60 appartments + TV stations. We know Hamas members specifically live together with civilians for the purpose of human shields, we don't know if this building was one of those.
He said, she said.

Well given asking for a rent check is ethnic cleansing apparently, I guess this is a bit like that, telling a building to evacuate and blowing it up is mass murder of journalists. I also suspect there is zero way Israel could defend itself in a war, as any act to defend itself is also a war crime, kind of like apparently any title deed held by a Jew is I guess illegitimate and acquired through fraud or swindle according to some people.

[Forogil]

Pretty sure Endus and others implied destruction of TV building as attack on media, not that Israeli's bombed people, specifically. It was reported everywhere that warning came and they evacuated.

If people mean an attack on "media" they should write that and not "journalists".

As for the excuse - yes, it is convenient. The building was shared, 60 appartments + TV stations. We know Hamas members specifically live together with civilians for the purpose of human shields, we don't know if this building was one of those.
He said, she said.

We don't know, although it certainly would make military sense for Hamas. And it certainly would be convenient for Israel to reduce the media coverage.

That highlights another problem - both Hamas and some in Israel, like Netanyahu, benefit from this general escalation.

[Easo]

I sometimes seriously wonder how entitled people think Palestinians are actually.
First off you that stupid "human shields argument" is a propaganda argument used by the Israeli military to justify killing civilians, literal argument is "it's not our fault that they died...it's them"

Where do you want anybody in Gaza to live? Including members of Hamas? I mean maybe it's time for Hamas to build a army base so everybody can just go live there, would that be convenient? But before Hamas can start building a army base that allows for housing Israel does need to end the blockade.

The argument is stupid only if you believe that Hamas does not, in fact, use human shields. They specifically have command centers and weapon manufacturing in buildings, so when those get destroyed, they can blame Israel for the dead civilians. They also often simply do not allow civilians to leave, so that there is something to show to foreign media about Israel killing children.

You can call it propaganda, I call it reality. They are religious militant fanatics, what do people even expect from them?

Well given asking for a rent check is ethnic cleansing apparently, I guess this is a bit like that, telling a building to evacuate and blowing it up is mass murder of journalists. I also suspect there is zero way Israel could defend itself in a war, as any act to defend itself is also a war crime, kind of like apparently any title deed held by a Jew is I guess illegitimate and acquired through fraud or swindle according to some people.

You are a bit oddly fixated on the whole rent thing. It was just used as an excuse anyway, politics are at play, most importantly - upcoming Palestinian elections (remember, first in 15 years). As for the rest, well, I could go and talk about it, but I feel it will be lost there.

[Grapemask]

Well given asking for a rent check is ethnic cleansing apparently, I guess this is a bit like that, telling a building to evacuate and blowing it up is mass murder of journalists. I also suspect there is zero way Israel could defend itself in a war, as any act to defend itself is also a war crime, kind of like apparently any title deed held by a Jew is I guess illegitimate and acquired through fraud or swindle according to some people.

Sometimes I wonder if Theo has ever been on the side of an argument that isn't disingenuous or straight up dishonest.

[Forogil]

I forgot nothing.

Targeting their workplaces and broadcast locations

after telling the journalists to leave is NOT targeting journalists, as the journalists were specifically not targeted.

Can we just agree that you are wrong and move on?

[jonnysensible]

after telling the journalists to leave is NOT targeting journalists, as the journalists were specifically not targeted.

Can we just agree that you are wrong and move on?

i mean it is targeting journalists. blowing up their offices is pretty hard targeting. You are objectively wrong.

[Endus]

after telling the journalists to leave is NOT targeting journalists, as the journalists were specifically not targeted.

Can we just agree that you are wrong and move on?

I'm not wrong. You're just defending the targeting of journalists for some reason, as if demolishing their place of work with explosives is somehow "not targeting journalists", just because they gave them the opportunity to get out of the building before the strike.

Do you apply the same principle to all bomb threats? Given that, y'know, the threat gives those in the building a chance to flee before detonation.

Blowing up a TV station's offices and broadcast center is targeting journalists. You're just, apparently, totally fine with targeting journalists, as long as it's "just" property damage and implied threats rather than any actual fatalities.

[jonnysensible]

We know Hamas members specifically live together with civilians

most people live with their families

[Theodarzna]

You are a bit oddly fixated on the whole rent thing. It was just used as an excuse anyway, politics are at play, most importantly - upcoming Palestinian elections (remember, first in 15 years). As for the rest, well, I could go and talk about it, but I feel it will be lost there.

Politics is at play, but it illustrates a point. Namely that I guess peace is functionally impossible. If two people of different ethnicity cannot have a simple lease agreement without it possibly starting a war? Well, then peace is impossible and it basically closes the door for any sort of real co-existence or it at least means that it is functionally impossible. I mean in Israel, anyone can buy and own land. If an Arab landlord had to evict a Jewish tenant nobody would bat an eye, especially if they had refused to pay rent for decades. Certainly nobody would accuse the Arab of ethnically cleansing the Jew. But for some inexplicable reason, the title held by this person is deemed invalid or must have been acquired through lies and deception, and once more asking for the rent checks and evicting people for non-payment would seem like a normal deal but here it is ethnic cleansing. Plus for all we know the next tenants could also be Arabs.

Heck, there is an easy solution, this family gets evicted for non-payment but the buildings can only be rented to Arabs. I mean Israel already has that protected renter status. Plus its like how Bedouin Arabs from the Negev can buy and lease land way cheaper than any Jewish citizen could.

But ultimately it all serves to illustrate the impossibility of peace IMHO.

[Easo]

most people live with their families

Do most people also use their houses for military operations? Rhetorical question, of course.

[jonnysensible]

Plus for all we know the next tenants could also be Arabs.

i mean this sums up how little you know about what is going on there lmao

[Theodarzna]

i mean this sums up how little you know about what is going on there lmao

Maybe? Maybe not? I've not read anything that says they are being evicted specifically based on their race, just that you know, they've not paid for the place in a few decades.

[Slant]

Occupied territory.

Cause, y'know, that's what it literally is.

While Hamas engages in terrorist attacks, the only ones treating it as a "war zone" is Israel. As they commit war crimes against innocents.

And you think it's a legit war tactic to hide between civilians? I get what you're saying, but you're very one-sided in your argument here.

- - - Updated - - -

Natives defending themselves from colonials.

It's not a colony. It's occupied territory that was taken from enemy countries as a buffer zone to protect (read: give more time) Israel from future attacks. Your analogy is a bit lame.

[jonnysensible]

Maybe? Maybe not? I've not read anything that says they are being evicted specifically based on their race, just that you know, they've not paid for the place in a few decades.

I'm going to explain to you what happened once and clearly because you are constantly getting it wrong.

- For weeks before this Jewish extremists have been targeting the Palestinian communities in Jerusalem’s Old City.
- They want to remove Palestinians from the neighborhood
- it is a extremely co-ordinated effort with support from Otzma Yehudit and the Lehava Movement
- Knesset members like Ben-Gvir also love this shit.
- They use the loaded court system to give them legal cover to do this
- They use the 1970 law 'Legal and Administrative Matters Law', which allows Jews to sue Palestinians for properties they claim to have owned prior to the establishment of Israel on the ruins of historic Palestine in 1948.
- Palestinians are excluded from making similar claims.
- They then sell these homes to Jewish settler organizations
- Last February the Israeli Supreme Court awarded Jewish settlers the right to loads of Palestinian homes in Sheikh Jarrah
- There was a massive backlash
- They offered Palestinians a ‘compromise’ where if Palestinian families gave up ownership rights to their homes, they could agree to continue to live there as tenants, paying rents to the Jewish settlers who have stolen their homes in the first place, but who are now armed with a court decision.
- The goal of settlers it to ensure a Jewish majority in Israel by ethnically cleansing neighbor hoods of Palestinians, de placing them with bullshit like this.
- This is why there wont be a one state solution because Israel and Bibi, want an exclusive Jewish state and do it by manipulating the demographics with ethnic cleansing.

got it?

[Slant]

I forgot nothing.

Targeting their workplaces and broadcast locations is still targeting journalists, even without fatalities. You're just playing ridiculous semantic games to try and avoid admitting to the basic facts at hand.

Targetting a journalist workplace vs. Targetting Hamas that are hiding in a journalist work place.

See, the differene is pretty clear and not semantic at all. What you're not accepting is that Israel doesn't think the journalists matter enough to warrant ignoring a military objective. Now, I agree that it's debatable if that's ethical or not. In the past Israeli commanders have refused to give orders to bomb civilian buildings. Others have not. It's complicated. What it's not is as black/white as you paint it here. And certainly the intent is not to disrupt international media coverage.

[Theodarzna]

[Snipped]

The landlord expected to be paid rent, and wasn't. And the Israeli Courts, you know those things you guys are saying was trying to oppress, genocide and ethnically cleanse the Arabs ruled the Arab families could not be evicted unless they just didn't pay rent. And even then this same court system has been letting these guys live rent free for decades. I wonder when that bit gets mentioned.

Also, they didn't own the buildings, they didn't have a title deed at all? How on Earth do they own something without ever having bought it? Plus they agreed it was the property of the title holder? What are you on man?