The alleged 'Labor Shortage', how real is it?

[Levelfive]

No, unemployment benefits don’t stop people from returning to work
Study after study has debunked the myth that emergency benefits keep people out of the labor force.

"Then there is the reality that, even with help from the government, a large segment of jobless Americans aren’t receiving enough money from unemployment benefits to actually get by. According to a Census Bureau survey last month, nearly 1 in 3 Americans on unemployment said they were still failing to cover routine expenses such as food, housing and medical treatments. That’s not to say the rest of those on pandemic assistance rolls are coasting either. Of the recipients of jobless benefits with children, roughly 75 percent reported not having enough food for their children either sometimes or often. Meanwhile, despite the highly meme-able frivolity associated with stimulus payments on social media, a study of how Americans spent the first stimulus by the Federal Reserve of New York revealed that only 29 percent of payments went toward consumption while the rest either went directly into debt repayment or savings.

To substantiate a point about benefits, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce also touted its analysis claiming that 1 in 4 Americans takes in more money from unemployment benefits than they would have by working. According to the Labor Department, the average unemployment recipient receives more than the equivalent of full-time work at $15 an hour. But these figures tell us a lot more about American employers than it does about American employees."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...mum-wage-work/

[SirBeef]

Stop it. No-one is forced to work a job that's pays very poorly. Stop using slave as a clickbait term.

You are being purposely dense about this and you fucking know it. Yes technically, no one is forced to work shitty jobs. But if you want to live, and you have no means to move, get a higher education, or the skills to get hired elsewhere, you pretty much are forced to work thise jobs.

You reek of conservative entitlement. Just pull yourself up by the bootstraps bull shit while hand the poor pieces of cardboard to use as boots with no straps. Most people in those situations do not have the money to move, the means to travel longer distances for a better job, nor the means to go back to school.

So tell me Mr. Civil War conspiracist, how in the fuck are people who are in those positions of feeling forced to work those jobs just to survive supposed to do better?

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Canada's been toying with the idea for decades, and conservatives keep shutting down tests of the system before they can produce results.

The pandemic, though, has been a pretty reasonable test-bed. Our economy's doing fine. As tragic as this has been, the one good thing is it's likely to bring about a basic income system nationally much sooner than if we hadn't suffered this.



I will not accept your tone-policing nonsense to try and shame me away from using the appropriate and accurate language to describe the status quo.

People are regularly forced to work jobs they do not want to work. By the need to feed themselves, to keep a roof over their heads, to provide for their children, to support family who need it. That's the definition of duress. And exploiting duress to ensure that workers have little to no choice is a form of slavery.

It's not chattel slavery, but slavery has many forms. And wage slavery is a recognized, defined term, and I am using it 100% appropriately. You just don't like it, because it points out the exploitative and abusive nature of the capitalist system. Well, tough nuts. It is what it is, and I'm not going to let you shame me away from describing it this way.

It's rich coming from a conspiracy theorist who constantly tries to tell us how it is through clickbait bull shit threads.

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I would fundamentally disagree; if a nation is maintaining productivity levels, the goal should be to minimize labor force participation rates; that means less and less of the society's population are required to keep the economy moving, freeing citizens up for other paths in life other than wage labour.

Less people working means more people creating art, caring for loved ones, and so on. Defining the value of a citizen based solely on their labor productivity is demeaning and dehumanizing as fuck.

The idea that we should increase labor force participation rates is kind of baffling. It's saying your economy is so precarious people need to be pushed to labor just to keep it alive. It's an argument of economic weakness, not a mark of strength.

That's why modern conservatives and capitalists sicken me. They only see value in terms if monetary contributions. They hold zero value in art, compassion, and learning general knowledge just to want to learn. If you do contribute monetarily, you mean nothing to them.

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You've no knowledge of what truly goes on in the US at all.

Yet that doesn't stop him from constantly making an ass of himself daily, then changing his name every so often hoping we forgot who he was with all his bad takes.

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Why is one's dignity contingent on working jobs you yourself don't consider to be worth them making enough money to you know live a life?

He's just projecting. Personally I don't care if someone works or not. I judge a person on their character not what they do. An no, working doesn't define someone's character any more than someone who chooses not to.

[Zan15]

No, unemployment benefits don’t stop people from returning to work
Study after study has debunked the myth that emergency benefits keep people out of the labor force.

"Then there is the reality that, even with help from the government, a large segment of jobless Americans aren’t receiving enough money from unemployment benefits to actually get by. According to a Census Bureau survey last month, nearly 1 in 3 Americans on unemployment said they were still failing to cover routine expenses such as food, housing and medical treatments. That’s not to say the rest of those on pandemic assistance rolls are coasting either. Of the recipients of jobless benefits with children, roughly 75 percent reported not having enough food for their children either sometimes or often. Meanwhile, despite the highly meme-able frivolity associated with stimulus payments on social media, a study of how Americans spent the first stimulus by the Federal Reserve of New York revealed that only 29 percent of payments went toward consumption while the rest either went directly into debt repayment or savings.

To substantiate a point about benefits, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce also touted its analysis claiming that 1 in 4 Americans takes in more money from unemployment benefits than they would have by working. According to the Labor Department, the average unemployment recipient receives more than the equivalent of full-time work at $15 an hour. But these figures tell us a lot more about American employers than it does about American employees."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...mum-wage-work/

If you take out the top 5 high income/min wage states that "average" quickly dives to $10-12.

So far I have yet to find a state that has stopped the 300 benefits, where the average unemployment for these low income workers in their state is making anywhere near 15 dollars.

I listed several states so far and they are falling in the 11-12 dollar range and they end up being 1-2 dollar difference

[Levelfive]

If you take out the top 5 high income/min wage states that "average" quickly dives to $10-12.

So far I have yet to find a state that has stopped the 300 benefits, where the average unemployment for these low income workers in their state is making anywhere near 15 dollars.

I listed several states so far and they are falling in the 11-12 dollar range and they end up being 1-2 dollar difference

I don't doubt you. I was more interested in the point that this is a problem with employers, not workers.

[arandomuser]

a tight labor market is good for wages
its so weird conservatives under trump were like " wow theres so many job openings hes a great president"
same thing under biden " its because people are lazy slobs and now theres not enough workers!"

im glad now that the public sees past the republican BS now hopefully

[Felya]

That is a far-right talking point.

Not sure you'll want to go with that because the opposite has been disproven countless times by studies linked by leftists:
aka "Immigration / immigrant workers don't cause wages to lower"

The opposite has been disproven many times you say... lol

Referring to people as “normies” is actually part of altright vernacular...

[Theodarzna]

a tight labor market is good for wages

That is literally the opposite of what you said. A Tight labor market means more workers applying than there are positions. Thus a wage depressing market.

Or I have things in reverse*

[Edge-]

https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/obse...r-market-slack

The opposite of labour market slack is labour market ‘tightness’. A tight labour market is one in which demand for labour is at least as strong as supply – in other words, a labour market in which employers compete for workers. This generally results in a situation in which employee bargaining power in terms of wages and employment conditions is stronger. A slack labour market, on the other hand, tends to give employers an upper hand in the employer–employee relationship, potentially resulting in lower wages.

Just saying.

[Theodarzna]

https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/obse...r-market-slack



Just saying.

Maybe I'm getting the terms backwards, apologies.

[arandomuser]

That is a far-right talking point.

Not sure you'll want to go with that because the opposite has been disproven countless times by studies linked by leftists:
aka "Immigration / immigrant workers don't cause wages to lower"

yes..well technically most immigration that the left, atleast the current president- supports is asylum seekers not economic immigrants. I think the current admin has taken a middle ground approach on that, hes turning back economic immigrants but increasing refugees, which the general position is its more moral to take asylum seekers than the net reduction in wages for the lower class, which we ALSO believe are alleviated by more social spending and higher minimum wage which this stimulus has basically proven its not a zero sum game between being humanitarian and providing to people here

[kamuimac]

(source)

Today's kvetching about the 'Labor Shortage' is in my opinion simply a business culture that has long assumed as a birthright and an entitlement that there will be a massive reserve army of surplus labor, that there will be simply an endless stream of desperate, precarious and extremely vulnerable people to make compete in a crucible of wage depressing blood sports for jobs. Right now, for many reasons, the world of business is having to deal with market conditions that are not favorable to that sort of assumption and it is driving them up the wall. Thus the demand for legislative change; though in doing so they have admitted that it is their opinion that they have a right to a tight, precarious and employer friendly labor market. I think they should never have that personally.

this happens when you have way to high social support for lazy people

its general problem of whole northern west.

thats why asia will inevitably take over because they dont feed "paristes" who are to lazy to work and only know how to leech on society

[Yetanothernewbie]

this happens when you have way to high social support for lazy people

its general problem of whole northern west.

thats why asia will inevitably take over because they dont feed "paristes" who are to lazy to work and only know how to leech on society

Hey look it's a shitty opinion!

[Machismo]

this happens when you have way to high social support for lazy people

its general problem of whole northern west.

thats why asia will inevitably take over because they dont feed "paristes" who are to lazy to work and only know how to leech on society

Aren't you a proud socialist who loves your country's socialist benefits?

thx god i live in old socialistic EU with tons of programs which help companies invest into developement/creating new job openings / new tech especially to small businesses

do corporations benefit from those too ? - ofc they do :0 but we all benefit from it

i think most of european countries have it like this. same with being paid for sick leave.

for example i spend 5 weeks on sick leave last year due to corona - got paid 80% of my salary for laying in bed + got 100 % refund for medicine/free tests etc - feels nice to live in this horrible socialist country of mine

because every discussion about worker rights is imidaitely finished with "you commie" comments ?

im glad i live in socialistic EU not in land of brave and free

im not discussing a lot of stuff since my family is rather religious / conservative while i have quite a lot of liberal/libertarian approach to life/work - also there is a lot of topics that i cannot really discuss as they are very unpopular even in online forums discussions .

tbh i dont feel too much attachement to my family - if anything then its only my parents/SOs that i care about

if you want an example of such controversial politcal topic that i could never speak with my family is for example " communism/socialism in eastern eu brought a lot of good things for people - like access to free public education and oportunity for social "rise" that they never had here for hundreds of years - yes there was lack of freedom but society got a llot better because of many actions they took - it was a nessesary step to get a lot of societies to "next level" " - try to discuss something like this with religious / conservative family in one of eastern EU countries and see how it will end :P

Of course, I could also slam dunk on you about the rabidly anti-socialist things you post, just to rove you to be a lying hypocrite. In the end, you don't demonstrate any actual values, and are simply gaslighting.

But, I think I've made my point.

[Theodarzna]

this happens when you have way to high social support for lazy people

its general problem of whole northern west.

thats why asia will inevitably take over because they dont feed "paristes" who are to lazy to work and only know how to leech on society

Wouldn't supporting Lazy people be the humane thing to do so they don't afflict themselves onto potential employers? I mean it seems like we are doing these bosses a favor by sparing them the trouble of suffering such god awful wretches terrible work. I mean, why do employers want these people applying in mass at their business? Given how unspeakably awful they are according to many people.

You'd think the business world would thank us for convincing these people to NOT bother them.

[Zan15]

Wouldn't supporting Lazy people be the humane thing to do so they don't afflict themselves onto potential employers? I mean it seems like we are doing these bosses a favor by sparing them the trouble of suffering such god awful wretches terrible work. I mean, why do employers want these people applying in mass at their business? Given how unspeakably awful they are according to many people.

You'd think the business world would thank us for convincing these people to NOT bother them.

People also tend to forget (not you) that these "lazy" people might very well have worked decades and in theory their work paid for their own unemployment benefits.

I collected unemployment in 2009 during the last major economic fuckery. At that point i had worked for 21 years at one corporation, worked multiple retail jobs from 15 years old and even filed taxes when i was self employed as a newspaper boy.
Yes my mom was that terrified of the IRS that she made me file taxes when I was that young. I should pull my IRS file i don't even know if they accepted it LOL.

I was working over 80 hours a week as a salaried employee at the time i was laid off. Yup so lazy!

[Theodarzna]

People also tend to forget (not you) that these "lazy" people might very well have worked decades and in theory their work paid for their own unemployment benefits.

I collected unemployment in 2009 during the last major economic fuckery. At that point i had worked for 21 years at one corporation, worked multiple retail jobs from 15 years old and even filed taxes when i was self employed as a newspaper boy.
Yes my mom was that terrified of the IRS that she made me file taxes when I was that young. I should pull my IRS file i don't even know if they accepted it LOL.

I was working over 80 hours a week as a salaried employee at the time i was laid off. Yup so lazy!

Well you often hear this from people who are taking businesses owners side, especially on the min wage discussion. "Oh, these grunts, they are paid what they are worth, they don't know their elbow from their ass and you want us to give that a raise!?" ect. And here we see a similar line, "This vast horde of lazy dumb wretched people just farting and collecting checks!" I mean if these people are so awful, why would you want them afflicting themselves upon employers? Seems like cutting them a check prevents them from wrecking business operations.

I mean I know the real reason, this is a rhetorical question. These employers want a vast surplus army of workers so they can drive down the wages of the ones they intend to hire, so having a vast starving mass desperate for checks that only they can dole out gives them basically the power of life and death over people and being that powerful is probably very addicting and supremely satisfying.

[Ursus]

Let me be blunt. Is there a labor crisis in America today?

[Theodarzna]

Let me be blunt. Is there a labor crisis in America today?

Nope. There is a very big panic about possibly maybe having to pay people.

[Zan15]

Let me be blunt. Is there a labor crisis in America today?

i hope its the start of one, where the workers realize they have been underpaid and taken advantage of for decades

[Kaleredar]

Let me be blunt. Is there a labor crisis in America today?

"That depends what you mean by 'cwisis'"