Anyone misses WoW Legion?

[shoegazing]

Legion is the best expansion Blizzard have made since Wrath. EN was fun. Artifacts were pretty whack when you had to line up AK research like you were playing Farmville or something, but they fixed that eventually. Legendaries kinda sucked at the beginning when the chance to get any drop at all was extremely low, but by the final patch and before the vendor came out they were an awesome incentive to just play the fucking game, doing whatever it is you personally wanted to do, because everything right down to opening a Blingtron could give you a legendary. Most fun I've had in WoW bar none, just constantly doing something because there was always the chance at a reward.

BFA was alright once we got into Dazar'alor and especially once they added a second ring to Azerite gear, but I think they captured lightning in a bottle with Legion and have done everything they can since to squander it by pandering to lazy people who want perfect deterministic gearing via content no harder than world quests.

Legion class design makes it a 0/10 and the worst fucking garbage expansion ever created, by far. Nothing else compares to how fucking terrible Legion is. I mean, BFA and Shadowlands are equally terrible but they are just following the precedent set by Legion. Legion is the fucking worst because it set the bar so fucking low to begin with, and WoW has never recovered from it.

I don't give a fuck about the content, the raids, the zones, the questing experience, any of it. It would be fair to evaluate that content on its merits in a world where I can even recognize the RPG character I've been playing since 2004 as being fundamentally similar to my character that I've known and loved for so many years. But in this fucked up world where up is down and left is right and war is peace and a "subtle" Rogue had all of its skills taken away and replaced with purple particles bullshit, none of that fucking matters. No content can ever be enjoyable ever again, when my Subtlety Rogue can no longer press "Gouge" which I learned as a level 6 Rogue (regardless of spec) in the year 2004 and which has been my "4" keybind ever since.

I can't just put another fucking button at "4". It's not fucking right. I have over a decade of muscle memory for pushing "4" to Gouge my enemies eyes. It would be disrespectful to put another button there. It would be sacrilege.

I feel like I have fucking phantom limb syndrome without this iconic and beloved Rogue button. It should be right there under my fingers, where it belongs, where it has always belonged, but instead I make the same motion and nothing happens.

Fuck Blizzard, Fuck the class design team in particular (every last one of them, if you're reading this please know that you're garbage and I despise you and you should find another job that you don't fucking suck at), and Fuck Legion.

To the class design team, and the Rogue designers in particular: Thanks for stealing every last ounce of fun out of the world of Azeroth you stupid, useless, inept bastards. Fuck you. I hope you all get fired. I hope the game itself fails so that you will find yourselves out on the streets without a job. Fuck you. From the buttom of my sneaky Rogue heart, with every ounce of intention that I can possibly muster, fuck you.

[Gimlix]

Legion was like my least favorite expansion, so no.

[deenman]

Nah.
Better than Cata, WoD and BFA but still dogshit.

honestly how was is better than wod?how?because it had more content?is that the only real metric for ''better''?

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Legion was like my least favorite expansion, so no.

wait what?how dare you dislike an older expansion more than the current one?is that even legal?

[TJ]

I miss WoD.

[kail]

The class hall and associated quests were some of the best solo content IMO. It was somewhat exciting to see some characters get a little attention. Rezzing Whitemane as a DK was a bit of a POG moment for me.

Besides that, I disliked what they did to some character playstyles like my beloved sPriest. Some I did enjoy like mega pulling as a prot pally and disc priest was a nice twist to the usual healing playstyle.

It was overall an OK expansion because it did have many issues that were even worsened in BFA. Overall the best addition legion gave was M+.

[enigma77]

Legion was the best expansion ever.

The only bad things were random legendaries and artifacts being problematic if you wanted to do play multiple specs or characters.

[Firebeast]

Nope, not one bit.

[Wuusah]

There was a pandemic and they’ve fallen behind. Ion mentioned this in his recent interview and I believe it. I think it’s ok to give them a break on that.

Well at some point they have catch up, though. They fell behind with 9.0 and had to postpone the release of this game. They then fell behind for 9.1.
Their reaction to the pandemic wasn’t good and that’s why they lost many months. Other companies did a better job in that regard.

[Osmeric]

There was a pandemic and they’ve fallen behind. Ion mentioned this in his recent interview and I believe it. I think it’s ok to give them a break on that.

Or we could just tell them to git gud.

[Uoyredrum]

No it was garbage. The only good things about Legion were the artifact quest lines and some of the armor sets. Class design was a dumpster fire, it was the start of the AP grind, suramar was horrible, pvp was some of the worst in wow history, RNG legendaries, and I could go on and on. It's a good thing it had so much nostalgia and lore going for it otherwise I don't think people would have remembered it so fondly. I'd say Legion is the 2nd worst expansion so far only beaten out by BFA. I'd rather play WoD. Seriously.

[crazyswayzee]

a bit, mostly due to mage tower and artifact weapons though... Never enjoyed Suramar and don't get the hype of it.

Me neither. Just felt like an endless amount of quests. I did like pvp mage tower and artifact weapons! And the "lore" /story

[arkanon]

I miss WoD.

I realise you are probably being sarcastic / pointing out that even wod was "better" than SL - but i actually agree. I honestly believe people a misremembering WoD, or at very least, only remembering the worst parts. And it absolutely did have some pretty terrible parts, but I still really enjoyed WoD.

I think for many people, SL just missed the mark - its hard to pinpoint exactly what is lacking, but for many, something absolutely is lacking. For me, Legion was the opposite - heaps of things I look back and think "yeah, that was awesome", but there is and was a lot a did NOT enjoy about legion. I know many say it was their favorite expansion, but for me, thats the Wrath / Cata / Mop expansion, for various reasons.

Once I would have added TBC in there, however going from retail to the TBC beta reminded me how slow and clunky many things still were, and that even continued, to some extent, through into Wrath - I think it was Cata before they really got classes to feel smooth, fluid, and responsive.

[Wuusah]

How do you “catch up”? Just tell everyone to work hundred hour weeks until the players are satisfied?

Catch up to your normal dev cycle, not to the lost time. 9.1 should not have been impacted by Covid as much as it is, after the impact that it had on 9.0.

I don’t know if they took COVID lightly at first or if their company structures are so rigid and bureaucratic that they couldn’t properly react but this slowness of theirs costs them a lot of money because of course people will get bored and quit.

[Watchers]

pinneacle of wow, cant be repeated sadly

[Soon-TM]

Catch up to your normal dev cycle, not to the lost time. 9.1 should not have been impacted by Covid as much as it is, after the impact that it had on 9.0.

I don’t know if they took COVID lightly at first or if their company structures are so rigid and bureaucratic that they couldn’t properly react but this slowness of theirs costs them a lot of money because of course people will get bored and quit.

It is worth remembering that Blizz was already behind schedule with SL even before the covid outbreak. Surely covid had its impact, in the sense of making the existing delays harder to overcome (imo).

[Uoyredrum]

I realise you are probably being sarcastic / pointing out that even wod was "better" than SL - but i actually agree. I honestly believe people a misremembering WoD, or at very least, only remembering the worst parts. And it absolutely did have some pretty terrible parts, but I still really enjoyed WoD.

I think for many people, SL just missed the mark - its hard to pinpoint exactly what is lacking, but for many, something absolutely is lacking. For me, Legion was the opposite - heaps of things I look back and think "yeah, that was awesome", but there is and was a lot a did NOT enjoy about legion. I know many say it was their favorite expansion, but for me, thats the Wrath / Cata / Mop expansion, for various reasons.

Once I would have added TBC in there, however going from retail to the TBC beta reminded me how slow and clunky many things still were, and that even continued, to some extent, through into Wrath - I think it was Cata before they really got classes to feel smooth, fluid, and responsive.

I don't think it's so much misremembering WoD, more that everything since has been much worse and it's given us a lot of perspective.

WoD wasn't bad because of its content, it was bad because of a lack of updates and content droughts. But the content that it did have was mostly very good. 3 great raids, better class design than legion and onward (although worse than anything prior to be fair). Some really fun dungeons, the best leveling experience in wow history, pretty good overall class balance and an OP legendary that was fun to use. It's too bad that those things often get overshadowed by the huge content drought and how bad Tannan Jungle was, not to mention the moving of the faction capitols and the lack of fahrahlon. With 1 more raid tier and fahrahlon added as a zone it'd probably be regarded to be as good as MoP by a lot of people.

[Kalisandra]

I don't give a fuck about the content, the raids, the zones, the questing experience, any of it. It would be fair to evaluate that content on its merits in a world where I can even recognize the RPG character I've been playing since 2004 as being fundamentally similar to my character that I've known and loved for so many years. But in this fucked up world where up is down and left is right and war is peace and a "subtle" Rogue had all of its skills taken away and replaced with purple particles bullshit, none of that fucking matters. No content can ever be enjoyable ever again, when my Subtlety Rogue can no longer press "Gouge" which I learned as a level 6 Rogue (regardless of spec) in the year 2004 and which has been my "4" keybind ever since.

I can't just put another fucking button at "4". It's not fucking right. I have over a decade of muscle memory for pushing "4" to Gouge my enemies eyes. It would be disrespectful to put another button there. It would be sacrilege.

And yet people laughed when Paladins complained about losing Sense Undead.

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wait what?how dare you dislike an older expansion more than the current one?is that even legal?

It took a while for BfA, while it was current, to make itself more disliked by me that WoD. It managed it, but it took a while.

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Once I would have added TBC in there, however going from retail to the TBC beta reminded me how slow and clunky many things still were, and that even continued, to some extent, through into Wrath - I think it was Cata before they really got classes to feel smooth, fluid, and responsive.

Funny you should say that, because Cata broke my favourite two specs, Retribution and Elemental and did a pretty good job of ruining Restoration Shamans too. Now, they were (mostly) fixed in Firelands, but to start with Ret had a non-functional mastery and was really bad - as in needs help to do Tol Barad dailies in less than twice the time it takes anyone else bad. Elemental just hit like a wet noodle in all content. Resto went oom constantly so all you could afford to do was snipe with ST heals.

Now Firelands fixed up most of that, with a reworked Ret mastery and Holy Power system, buffed Elemental (too late for the full-time Elementals in my guild, though - they left for other games), and buffed Resto with the same mastery they still have (which was really useful in Firelands and Dragon Soul because the fights lent themselves to letting the raid run low on health and then using the Mastery plus a CD to bring them right back up) and mana regen off Lightning Bolts. Oh, and this was when Ele and Resto got to cast Lightning Bolts on the move. I miss that almost as much as I miss Gust of Wind.

So, in my experience Cata did indeed get the rotations, etc. feeling good, but it took most of the expansion for some classes. The heroics and raids being hard at the expansion's opening wasn't the only reason Cata bled subs. A story many weren't terribly interested in was another, and so was some fairly terrible class balance and design early on.

It also introduced the version of Combustion that made me hate my Fire Mage, so there's that. On the plus side, my Sub Rogue felt really good to play (not that I did more than farm ore and skins and murder people in random BGs with them).

One thing Mists did fairly well was that it didn't completely gut and rebuild most specs, so a lot of them still worked okay to start. Before they were nerfed MoP Shadoiw Priests were amazing fun, too.

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I don't think it's so much misremembering WoD, more that everything since has been much worse and it's given us a lot of perspective.

WoD wasn't bad because of its content, it was bad because of a lack of updates and content droughts. But the content that it did have was mostly very good. 3 great raids, better class design than legion and onward (although worse than anything prior to be fair). Some really fun dungeons, the best leveling experience in wow history, pretty good overall class balance and an OP legendary that was fun to use. It's too bad that those things often get overshadowed by the huge content drought and how bad Tannan Jungle was, not to mention the moving of the faction capitols and the lack of fahrahlon. With 1 more raid tier and fahrahlon added as a zone it'd probably be regarded to be as good as MoP by a lot of people.

Having Karabor as an actual functional place, and a proper story for the fall of Shattrath, etc. would've made many Alliance players a lot happier, too.

It also brought the start of the 'bare-bones' spec design, though the added power in the Legion style wasn't there yet.

By the way, one reason BfA was so badly received was that without the Legion artefact weapon the BfA specs weren't just bane-bones, they were positively skeletal. Some were barely functional whilst levelling, especially once the legendaries turned off. At least in Legion characters started with most of their WoD abilities still there (and set bonuses), and the weapon added to that usefully right away. BfA gave you a couple of (usually awful) azerite powers that usually had nothing to do with your character's class or spec at all, and you didn't get the good stuff until well into end-game gearing.

[Uoyredrum]

And yet people laughed when Paladins complained about losing Sense Undead.

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It took a while for BfA, while it was current, to make itself more disliked by me that WoD. It managed it, but it took a while.

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Funny you should say that, because Cata broke my favourite two specs, Retribution and Elemental and did a pretty good job of ruining Restoration Shamans too. Now, they were (mostly) fixed in Firelands, but to start with Ret had a non-functional mastery and was really bad - as in needs help to do Tol Barad dailies in less than twice the time it takes anyone else bad. Elemental just hit like a wet noodle in all content. Resto went oom constantly so all you could afford to do was snipe with ST heals.

Now Firelands fixed up most of that, with a reworked Ret mastery and Holy Power system, buffed Elemental (too late for the full-time Elementals in my guild, though - they left for other games), and buffed Resto with the same mastery they still have (which was really useful in Firelands and Dragon Soul because the fights lent themselves to letting the raid run low on health and then using the Mastery plus a CD to bring them right back up) and mana regen off Lightning Bolts. Oh, and this was when Ele and Resto got to cast Lightning Bolts on the move. I miss that almost as much as I miss Gust of Wind.

So, in my experience Cata did indeed get the rotations, etc. feeling good, but it took most of the expansion for some classes. The heroics and raids being hard at the expansion's opening wasn't the only reason Cata bled subs. A story many weren't terribly interested in was another, and so was some fairly terrible class balance and design early on.

It also introduced the version of Combustion that made me hate my Fire Mage, so there's that. On the plus side, my Sub Rogue felt really good to play (not that I did more than farm ore and skins and murder people in random BGs with them).

One thing Mists did fairly well was that it didn't completely gut and rebuild most specs, so a lot of them still worked okay to start. Before they were nerfed MoP Shadoiw Priests were amazing fun, too.

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Having Karabor as an actual functional place, and a proper story for the fall of Shattrath, etc. would've made many Alliance players a lot happier, too.

It also brought the start of the 'bare-bones' spec design, though the added power in the Legion style wasn't there yet.

By the way, one reason BfA was so badly received was that without the Legion artefact weapon the BfA specs weren't just bane-bones, they were positively skeletal. Some were barely functional whilst levelling, especially once the legendaries turned off. At least in Legion characters started with most of their WoD abilities still there (and set bonuses), and the weapon added to that usefully right away. BfA gave you a couple of (usually awful) azerite powers that usually had nothing to do with your character's class or spec at all, and you didn't get the good stuff until well into end-game gearing.

Yep and once people got a lot of the good stuff they realized that the majority of their player power was from procs on their gear, not their actual abilities. Good design, blizzard.

[melzas]

I feel like Legion was the expansion they've put most effort and resources into, to see if it actually pays back.

There is no denying that legion was massively big. Fully voiced class campgains and class halls, new class, innovative and big systems like m+, artifacts (special quest chain for every spec + lore and cosmetics), legendaries, world quests. Professions were revamped and there was a lot of effort put into them, even freaking archeology had its own quests chains.

Classes were reworked and reimagined (like it or not, there was a lot of work involved), mage tower scenarios for ever spec! Suramar itself must have been the biggest max level zone/campgain ever, raids and dungeons as good as ever.

With all that I don't think Legion was a financial success for blizzard overall. There are still people who weren't impressed with the expansion and in hindsight I think Blizzard decided that putting so much work and resources into the game doesn't work because in the end players will stay subbed to mediocre expansion that costs blizzard half of effort all the same (maybe with a bit of added salt of forums, but as long as they pay, it's ok).

[Brubbahlubs]

I miss Legion aswell as MoP.

Best expansions for playing paladin.

May Glimmer burn in hell.