Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Sondrelk]

People will once again call me a hater but I really believe they should end SL in 9.2, genuinely for the long-term health of the game.

This expansion is just not working out from both a gameplay and store standpoint. Release 9.1.5 in the fall and make it have some nice quality of life features to get peolpe back into playing and not feel like so much of it is a chore, then use Blizzcon in Nov 2021 to generate hype for an epic 10.0 that promises huge redesign overhaul of the game based on the myriad of issues felt by the community, and then focus on outputting 9.2 in the spring of 2022.

Let's get 'er done.

I dunno. I agree it should end early on the basis that I don't particuarly enjoy SL as a concept, but it's hardly an unsalvageable concept or expansion in general. It definitely suffers from an extra long initial launch as opposed to the swift X.1 patches we have gotten before, but the content we have does function like it should, and I sincerely doubt that most players have gotten close to the bottom of their chosen covenants reward system, let alone 4. And that is without significant RNG like with the islands of 8.0.

Genuinely, what does SL lack that a "proper" expansion would have had at this point that wouldnt be new patches? BfA had marginally more content if you counted the two level and endgame faction stories as completely separate, and Legion had less by far.

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And honestly, if the SL power scaling systems is reason to end the expansion early then BfA and Legion has it beat by far, what with their boring grinds and obtuse RNG based means of power upgrades.

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If your argument was that they should end it early to focus their entire team on 10.0 to really make it solid as a means of regaining their footing after a lack of knockout releases then sure, but don't pretend like it is because SL is just that bad.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

People wanting it to end are very likely the same people who whined during WoD during the long wait. No, the expansion should continue like normal then ending it cause some people feel its a "chore or consider it "bad." Its never worth it. A "proper" expansion or at least the ones look favorably weren't just abandoned to move on to the next one. Hell they even had timegating in all of them(I really am getting tired of people saying timegating as a auto win argument).

[Sondrelk]

People wanting it to end are very likely the same people who whined during WoD during the long wait. No, the expansion should continue like normal then ending it cause some people feel its a "chore."

I feel this expansion is a special enough case that Blizzard could realistically end it early if they really felt it was necessary, but I wouldnt say it is a definite thing.
If Blizzard ends this expansion early it will be because of Covid and general time crunch in relation to the next expansion, not because this expansion is particularly terrible.

[Edward Wu]

People wanting it to end are very likely the same people who whined during WoD during the long wait. No, the expansion should continue like normal then ending it cause some people feel its a "chore or consider it "bad." Its never worth it. A "proper" expansion or at least the ones look favorably weren't just abandoned to move on to the next one. Hell they even had timegating in all of them(I really am getting tired of people saying timegating as a auto win argument).

I didn't whine at all during the WoD wait, so your baseless accusation already holds no water. Why do people like you consider it a WoD situation if they end it in 9.2, anyway? it literally isn't. WoD had a single content patch and if SL ends in 9.2, then it would have double the content patches and more than 2x the actual content released.

What you fail to see, which is rather amazing, is that the timeline of the current patch release does not allow for a 9.2.5 and 9.3 without making it a literal 3-year expansion cycle, which would be the longest expansion cycle ever, for an expansion that has not been well received at all and had enormous player drop-off.

Leave the bitterness out of it and think a little objectively, please. I know you can do it.

[Raetary]

Why do people like you consider it a WoD situation if they end it in 9.2, anyway?

Because it would be?

When people look at warlords, they see a cut-off, content starved expansion.
Evident by the amount of content updates past launch, which is only 2 patches.

The majority of the playerbase does not sit around measuring exactly how much content an expansion had, they just take a look at the amount of content updates past launch and judge it from there.

If Shadowlands ends in 9.2, people will deem it another wod-like failure.


Also, can we stop dancing around 6.1 all the time?
Whether we like it or not, the patch was at the time seen and advertised as a major content update to warlords.

'Us' not considering it a content update, doesn't suddenly not make it one.
Or change the publics perception of it.

[Edward Wu]

Because it would be?

When people look at warlords, they see a cut-off, content starved expansion.
Evident by the amount of content updates past launch, which is only 2 patches.

The majority of the playerbase does not sit around measuring exactly how much content an expansion had, they just take a look at the amount of content updates past launch and judge it from there.

If Shadowlands ends in 9.2, people will deem it another wod-like failure.


Also, can we stop dancing around 6.1 all the time?
Whether we like it or not, the patch was at the time seen and advertised as a major content update to warlords.

'Us' not considering it a content update, doesn't suddenly not make it one.

People already deem SL a failure. Lots and lots of people. Ending it in 9.3 instead of 9.2 isn't somehow going to change this perception, in fact it might make it worse and feed perceptions that Blizzard is so far behind that they are not able to push out expansions every 2 years anymore. There's always a silver lining to everything.

Your 6.1 statement is pure historical revisionism. Not even Blizzard was delusional enough to think an heirloom collections tab, twitter integration, and a few more garrison followers amounted to a "major content patch". Please stop with the mental gymnastics.

[Sondrelk]

People already deem SL a failure. Lots and lots of people. Ending it in 9.3 instead of 9.2 isn't somehow going to change this perception, in fact it might make it worse and feed perceptions that Blizzard is so far behind that they are not able to push out expansions every 2 years anymore. There's always a silver lining to everything.

Your 6.1 statement is pure historical revisionism. Not even Blizzard was delusional enough to think an heirloom collections tab, twitter integration, and a few more garrison followers amounted to a "major content patch". Please stop with the mental gymnastics.

People deem every expansion a failure when the droughts start to set in. Even the best expansions are not praised unti lafter the fact.

WoD is partially deemed the wrost expansion in part because it only went to 6.2. What actual content there was hardly mattered as players looked at it as the expansion that got abandoned.
If SL only goes to 9.2 then it will inevitably draw the same complaints, regardless of how many times you try to remind everyone that 6.1 was the Selfie cam patch.
Unless 9.2 is the holy grail of WoW patches and 10.0 is announced to be the second coming of Christ then ending the expansion that early will do nothing but fuel the fires of Blizzard abandoning expansions. And honestly they will even if the patches are that good considering the idea is that Blizzard abandoned it because of player complaints despite them getting into a good groove by the end.

I am willing to somewhat agree with you because of the extraoridnary circumstances SL has found itself in, and because I believe it might be for the best if the developers cut something short to hit the next expansion running, but it would be insane to think this would be anything but a supremely risky move that risks the WoW playerbase deflating even further, much less that such a choice would be lauded by the players at large.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Abandoning expansions is bad all the way around, they gotta stick it through, I rather not see WoD again(Err the massive time between to WoD's 6.2 to Legion.

[therumblings]

If Blizzard tries to end Shadowlands at 9.2, and doesn't expect the community to give them hate, then they are truly delusional. Like even if they wrap up all the story and nicely end it at 9.2, I don't think the community will accept that, they will just claim "WoD 2.0" no matter what.

[Hellspawn]

If Blizzard tries to end Shadowlands at 9.2, and doesn't expect the community to give them hate, then they are truly delusional. Like even if they wrap up all the story and nicely end it at 9.2, I don't think the community will accept that, they will just claim "WoD 2.0" no matter what.

Really depends on how far the next x-pack is away and how exciting that thing is.

[Edward Wu]

People deem every expansion a failure when the droughts start to set in. Even the best expansions are not praised unti lafter the fact.

WoD is partially deemed the wrost expansion in part because it only went to 6.2. What actual content there was hardly mattered as players looked at it as the expansion that got abandoned.
If SL only goes to 9.2 then it will inevitably draw the same complaints, regardless of how many times you try to remind everyone that 6.1 was the Selfie cam patch.
Unless 9.2 is the holy grail of WoW patches and 10.0 is announced to be the second coming of Christ then ending the expansion that early will do nothing but fuel the fires of Blizzard abandoning expansions. And honestly they will even if the patches are that good considering the idea is that Blizzard abandoned it because of player complaints despite them getting into a good groove by the end.

I am willing to somewhat agree with you because of the extraoridnary circumstances SL has found itself in, and because I believe it might be for the best if the developers cut something short to hit the next expansion running, but it would be insane to think this would be anything but a supremely risky move that risks the WoW playerbase deflating even further, much less that such a choice would be lauded by the players at large.

To be honest there's possibly a whole host of reasons why SL might be unpopular with people that are entirely out of Blizzard's control now.

Maybe the fact that the expansion theme is sort of doom & gloom is off-putting to people during a pandemic when depression rates have soared? Who knows.
Maybe the fact that the pandemic is causing them to be so behind and exacerbating the negative feedback loop of SL makes it harder to continue comfiting to the expansion due to their stay-at-home work output being lower than before the pandemic?

People can come up with so many reasons. I'm not saying all of them are Blizzard's fault. Like you say, it's the extraordinary circumstances we find ourselves in that the patch structure for this expansion is already unprecedented. What else could be?

[therumblings]

Really depends on how far the next x-pack is away and how exciting that thing is.

If they have backlash for cutting Shadowlands short, they would have to have a Demon Hunter-level early expansion reveal outside of blizzcon. I remember how out of place the gamescom reveal was, was also the first time I made an account on mmoc.

[huth]

People already deem SL a failure. Lots and lots of people. Ending it in 9.3 instead of 9.2 isn't somehow going to change this perception, in fact it might make it worse and feed perceptions that Blizzard is so far behind that they are not able to push out expansions every 2 years anymore. There's always a silver lining to everything.

And you know that how, exactly? You don't actually have access to any reliable source for this. You're just assuming people agree with your position.

[Dracullus]

People will once again call me a hater but I really believe they should end SL in 9.2, genuinely for the long-term health of the game.

For that I wouldn't call you a hater, I would call you short sighted. We paid full price for expansion and we all should expect full patch cycle.

People screamed "BfA is not working, scrap that and move to next" as well. Yet BfA broke sales record from Cata and SL broke BfA record.

I don't remember many voices against while content was fresh, on the opposite, many were pointing honeymoon period is longer than usual (imo Legion one was longer). It's not yet obvious if SL structure works better or worse than BfA/Legion heavy grinding. Right know we just lack patch content.

[Edward Wu]

For that I wouldn't call you a hater, I would call you short sighted. We paid full price for expansion and we all should expect full patch cycle.

People screamed "BfA is not working, scrap that and move to next" as well. Yet BfA broke sales record from Cata and SL broke BfA record.

I don't remember many voices against while content was fresh, on the opposite, many were pointing honeymoon period is longer than usual (imo Legion one was longer). It's not yet obvious if SL structure works better or worse than BfA/Legion heavy grinding. Right know we just lack patch content.

Pretty sure the box price of Shadowlands is for the opening 9.0 content only. I think the subscription is what covers the "funding" of patch content, bug fixes, server stability etc.

[Revamp Man]

so lest say we get 9.1 in 5 weeks
this fits due to the fact we still have 8 mythic bosses to test
2 bosses per week is 4 weeks
last week for stability

this means about 3-4 months after it we get 9.2 info

[Dracullus]

so lest say we get 9.1 in 5 weeks
this fits due to the fact we still have 8 mythic bosses to test
2 bosses per week is 4 weeks
last week for stability

this means about 3-4 months after it we get 9.2 info

I guess first will be 9.1.5 with usual 1.5 content (Brawler's Guild, Legion timewalking, smaller stuff) - I guess late July for PTR, late September for release. So October would be 9.2 reveal/PTR, December/January for release. All dates of course if they're more or less back on track.

[Revamp Man]

I guess first will be 9.1.5 with usual 1.5 content (Brawler's Guild, Legion timewalking, smaller stuff) - I guess late July for PTR, late September for release. So October would be 9.2 reveal/PTR, December/January for release. All dates of course if they're more or less back on track.

give me my damn maw skip

i still dont understand why it isnt being put in 9.1

[Sondrelk]

so lest say we get 9.1 in 5 weeks
this fits due to the fact we still have 8 mythic bosses to test
2 bosses per week is 4 weeks
last week for stability

this means about 3-4 months after it we get 9.2 info

Also depends on whether the raid opens immediately. I could easily see 2-3 weeks which could be used for raid testing. So really it could all depend on how long the patch itself needs, which doesn't need to be a lot.

[Alanar]

It does not fit with the existing lore at all. Titans can have connections to the Eternals and other members of other Pantheons, sure. But "daddy Argus" did not rule over the fucking Brokers. Jesus fucking christ.

And so what if they do have an identity? The Eternal Ones and co also have identity, so fuckin what?

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I always saw the Earth Mother as a spiritual embodiment of Azeroth's World Soul, yeah. Like an Avatar of sorts.

What if you are proven wrong eventually? Will you stop with the: overdramatic caps you know it all posts?

I am joking with you, just rlx. I for one welcome new lore its just stupid they try to link everything.