Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Svifnymr]

I wasn't talking about a rise, I was talking about their effectiveness. Most mass-shootings probably aren't planned, the ones that are however seem to include an ar-15 or ar-15 style of firearm. The one with the most fatalities this year, ar-15.

Question, how much influence on weapon choice do you attribute to the media/ politician focus on "semi-automatic assault weapons" in such circumstances?

In general, an AR15 (even a pistol) is much larger and harder to conceal. Parkland shooter for instance, couldn't fit the magazines in his bag and had to use 10 rounders because of size. Likewise, the Las Vegas shooter with the rifles with bump stocks had what, like 8 rifles? From what I recall, he had plenty of money and could probably have bought a real machinegun, or illegally converted his stuff. The bump stock is probably a detraction from what he was doing.

But, I mean, he also could have bought a belt-fed or one of the crank/ rotary guns, rather than using a finicky bump stock, so he obviously didn't do much research.

[Kellhound]

Didn't realise AR-15s had been around since the 19th century

In the 1980s there were ~8 mass shootings, rising to the low 20s for the 90s and 00s, then jumping up to 47 in the 10s and its on track to almost match that in the 20s. This is based on the common denominator being 4+ fatalities. Obama had the classification changed to 3+ fatalities in 2013 but I ignored those to keep everything even. Civilian ARs went on sale in the 1960s.

[Muzjhath]

I don't see where you're going with this. I've never said I'm against training, I've actually said it should be mandatory (and it is here, unless you've served in the military, but qualified range officers are there to help refresh one's memory or explain the functioning of some unusual guns - because most guns work in the same way but some have their unique quirks, I've lost count of how many people I've seen trying to load a M3 and failing for instance). Also, you can own guns in Sweden.
You can even own an AR-15 or a clone thereof if you've been an IPSC shooter for at least a year but I've read that on a forum and not an official source so take that with a grain of salt (although it's a PS-centric forum so there's no reason the guy would've lied, he would've been called out).

My point was that just because you regulate guns, and make owning them for self defence hard as fuck/nigh on impossible doesn't make it so you can't own them/use them for recreational purposes. Which the point I adressed seemed to be of the opinion of that a gun ban/regulation would do.

[Mayhem]

AR-15s predate the outbreak of mass shootings by decades. They are not the problem.

Wah? Even if this was true, how would it be relevant to my post?

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Question, how much influence on weapon choice do you attribute to the media/ politician focus on "semi-automatic assault weapons" in such circumstances?

In general, an AR15 (even a pistol) is much larger and harder to conceal. Parkland shooter for instance, couldn't fit the magazines in his bag and had to use 10 rounders because of size. Likewise, the Las Vegas shooter with the rifles with bump stocks had what, like 8 rifles? From what I recall, he had plenty of money and could probably have bought a real machinegun, or illegally converted his stuff. The bump stock is probably a detraction from what he was doing.

But, I mean, he also could have bought a belt-fed or one of the crank/ rotary guns, rather than using a finicky bump stock, so he obviously didn't do much research.

That is an interesting question. Talking to those mass-shooters should give the answers needed. Yeah, I absolutely agree that handguns should also be regulated not just ar-15 and ar-15 style firearms. I am talking about purchase and ownership not the firearms themselves, just to be clear.

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That’s rich, considering you stated stuff I had to disprove twice because you didn’t bother reading the link in my post, and asked me questions which I answered and you conveniently ignored. As usual you’re not here to constructively contribute to the discussion, no, you’re only interested in winning interned fights. Way to go.

Ok, cool, here's a tip for you, if that is your opinion of me, just ignore my posts in the future, deal? deal!

[Kellhound]

Wah? Even if this was true, how would it be relevant to my post?

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That is an interesting question. Talking to those mass-shooters should give the answers needed. Yeah, I absolutely agree that handguns should also be regulated not just ar-15 and ar-15 style firearms. I am talking about purchase and ownership not the firearms themselves, just to be clear.

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Ok, cool, here's a tip for you, if that is your opinion of me, just ignore my posts in the future, deal? deal!

It is true, and it relate to your post by showing that access to guns has stayed common, but mass shootings are up. Thus, access to guns is not the cause of the problem.

The purchase and ownership of firearms is regulated in the US.

[Mayhem]

It is true, and it relate to your post by showing that access to guns has stayed common, but mass shootings are up. Thus, access to guns is not the cause of the problem.

When did I argue that access to firearms are the cause for mass shootings? What are you arguing against?

The purchase and ownership of firearms is regulated in the US.

True, except when it's not.

[Svifnymr]

That is an interesting question. Talking to those mass-shooters should give the answers needed. Yeah, I absolutely agree that handguns should also be regulated not just ar-15 and ar-15 style firearms. I am talking about purchase and ownership not the firearms themselves, just to be clear.

When I mentioned handguns, I was referring to AR15 handguns, not handguns in general. The discussion was about AR15's use in mass shootings and the idea that they are better suited to such events given their use. To continue on the thread, in the 80's there was a lot of focus on the tec9, so it's usage increased in crime. Of course, the tec9 sucked for the most part and jammed repeatedly, but that is not how it was portrayed in media, so it continued to be popular long after production ceased. I don't have the studies handy, but it has also been shown before how mass shootings tend to happen in clusters, as the press attention encourages people that want attention.

I've seen reports a long time ago that said that police deaths increased after banning of armor piercing ammo due to the spread of the knowledge that most officers wore vests during all the press. So, more cop killers went for the head. Not sure how accurate that is, but there were very few uses of armor piercing ammo at all, and yet they were banned because of made-up press attention.

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True, except when it's not.

True, except when people break the laws in place.

[Mayhem]

When I mentioned handguns, I was referring to AR15 handguns, not handguns in general. The discussion was about AR15's use in mass shootings and the idea that they are better suited to such events given their use. To continue on the thread, in the 80's there was a lot of focus on the tec9, so it's usage increased in crime. Of course, the tec9 sucked for the most part and jammed repeatedly, but that is not how it was portrayed in media, so it continued to be popular long after production ceased. I don't have the studies handy, but it has also been shown before how mass shootings tend to happen in clusters, as the press attention encourages people that want attention.

I've seen reports a long time ago that said that police deaths increased after banning of armor piercing ammo due to the spread of the knowledge that most officers wore vests during all the press. So, more cop killers went for the head. Not sure how accurate that is, but there were very few uses of armor piercing ammo at all, and yet they were banned because of made-up press attention.

A few studies into these would be interesting, agreed. If just to clear up the urban legends.

True, except when people break the laws in place.

When there's no law to break, people can't break a law.

Selling or gifting firearms privately is not regulated in more than half the states.

[Svifnymr]

A few studies into these would be interesting, agreed. If just to clear up the urban legends.



When there's no law to break, people can't break a law.

Selling or gifting firearms privately is not regulated in more than half the states.

Knowingly selling to a felon is illegal. A felon possessing a firearm is illegal. A straw purchase is illegal. Other than the middle one occasionally getting prosecuted, the other two are not pursued for charges. The last study was a long time ago, but the percentage of "bought from private seller" vs "family member bought it for me" was majorly slanted to the latter, though both were vastly outnumbered by other sources.

[Mayhem]

Knowingly selling to a felon is illegal. A felon possessing a firearm is illegal. A straw purchase is illegal. Other than the middle one occasionally getting prosecuted, the other two are not pursued for charges. The last study was a long time ago, but the percentage of "bought from private seller" vs "family member bought it for me" was majorly slanted to the latter, though both were vastly outnumbered by other sources.

Selling guns privately doesn't require a background check in more than half the states. Unknowingly selling to felons is not illegal. See the problem?

[Kellhound]

When did I argue that access to firearms are the cause for mass shootings? What are you arguing against?



True, except when it's not.

"Agreed, and thanks to the stupid constitutional right in the US they have to come up with stupid solutions because everything other countries do they just can't."

Just because we do not have the amount of regulation you think we should have does not mean we do not have regulations.

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Selling guns privately doesn't require a background check in more than half the states. Unknowingly selling to felons is not illegal. See the problem?

Knowingly being in possession of a firearm when prohibited is illegal no matter how you come to have it.

[Kellhound]

So you DON’T see the problem. Yeah, felons owning guns is illegal. Which does nothing to address the supply issue.

There isn't a supply issue, there is an acceptance of violence issue.

[Mayhem]

Just because we do not have the amount of regulation you think we should have does not mean we do not have regulations.

What amount of regulations do you think I think you should have?

Knowingly being in possession of a firearm when prohibited is illegal no matter how you come to have it.

derp

[Felya]

There isn't a supply issue, there is an acceptance of violence issue.

Not necessarily... we literally have a congresswoman that believes in crisis actors. We have an active arm of US government, that doesn’t accept violence, it is actively convincing people it’s fake... like the movies...

What amount of regulations do you think I think you should have?

7 tons... And not a feather more...

[postman1782]

Selling guns privately doesn't require a background check in more than half the states. Unknowingly selling to felons is not illegal. See the problem?

Especially when you go to one of the 33 states that have the "gun show" loophole.

[Kellhound]

What amount of regulations do you think I think you should have?



derp

More than we have.

[Mayhem]

More than we have.

So it's not about the kind of regulation it's just the amount of regulations you have an issue with?

odd

[Stormdash]

Especially when you go to one of the 33 states that have the "gun show" loophole.

I'm always amused by what people who made up this term for "private gun sale" must think happens at an actual gun show.

Selling guns privately doesn't require a background check in more than half the states. Unknowingly selling to felons is not illegal. See the problem?

Where did you get this misinformation that selling firearms to a prohibited possessor or across state lines is an intent crime? It's a strict liability offense, just like (for example) statutory rape is. Just like, for that matter, illegal possession is.

[Mayhem]

Where did you get this misinformation that selling firearms to a prohibited possessor or across state lines is an intent crime? It's a strict liability offense, just like (for example) statutory rape is. Just like, for that matter, illegal possession is.

I figured that the word "knowingly" was included for a reason, apparently, it wasn't. I stand corrected. It's just super hard to prove and as far as I read up on this judges/courts decide based on a "reasonable person" standard that is of course if the felon actually commits a crime or is ever caught which does fuck all for their victims.

[Roxinius]

Especially when you go to one of the 33 states that have the "gun show" loophole.

there is no such thing this is a private sale which the only way you can track this is with a national registry which you can shove where the sun dont shine