[Megathread] Amazon's New World MMO

[Cracked]

End game is the only thing thar matters? Leveling in classic is the worst iteration of wow leveling by a large margin. Slow grindy and boring. No dopamine to be found sorry.

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Omg YOU NEED TO WATCH FOR A PAT? Holy fucking skill batman. I feel the dopamine suuuuuuuuurging and my ability to look with my eyes for 3 seconds and stand there and wait. Boring and tedious

Uh, it's not my problem you are incapable of understanding what makes games fun. /shrug

[ClassicPeon]

Invincible lost the tiny amount of "prestige" it had the second you could solo it with 50 characters a week.

I disagree. It still takes the effort of pulling those 50 characters through the raid. Is it the same as having it back when it was current in wrath? no ofcourse not.

Anyway the point still stands between ingame earned stuff vs bought stuff

[Popastique]

Tediousness is Shadowlands' world quests, that each take 15 minutes but provide 0 challenge, a total slog. Defias Pillagers Fireballs hitting you for 30% of your HP or pulling too many Murlocs is not "tediousness", it is the definition of threatening and provides a stimulating encounter to overcome.

That's your perspective and you have the right to call it *definition of threatening and provides a stimulating encounter to overcome*, but that's exactly why new MMO games will not have that approach in mind. Because most players nowadays consider that to be tedious and boring, not stimulating in any way - otherwise we would already have MMO games that copy/imitate that WoW Classic experience. And developers always cater to majority, rather than minority.

[ClassicPeon]

That's your perspective and you have the right to call it *definition of threatening and provides a stimulating encounter to overcome*, but that's exactly why new MMO games will not have that approach in mind. Because most players nowadays consider that to be tedious and boring, not stimulating in any way - otherwise we would already have MMO games that copy/imitate that WoW Classic experience. And developers always cater to majority, rather than minority.

Running 2000 miles isnt technically hard, its tedious time demanding and so on but it doesnt require a great amount of skill.

Does that mean its not challenging though?

being methodical about something requireing focus and dedication can be motivational aswell.

[Alaenore]

Degenerate playstyles aside.. Even if you just talk about new player experience, it's just not comparable. Killing 1 or 2 murlocs at a time might not be stimulating, but timing your murloc patrol pull right in between 2 packs to avoid it leashing is only satisfying because pulling 3 will kill you. Pulling 5 murlocs on retail and aoeing them mindlessly without ever having to take the punishment of death into consideration simply doesn't work the same way, no matter how you look at it.

Back in the days, yes, I agree that was expected, but boy was it not satisfying for most people. Getting killed because a mob repopped at the wrong time, a patrol you has no idea would come from there because it had a stupidly long pathing or was engaged in something else, or mob snapping back to someone who tried resetting them and just killing you was absolutely no fun. Obviously, you could just look from a distance for 5 minute to see every mob, paths etc and play accordingly, but just watching npc move around isn't what people consider fun.

Thing is, game design changed along with players expectations, and people no longer wish to be killed by a random monster when you're supposed to have slain literal gods and wearing a bunch of over powerful magic items. Why should a random thief in Alterac be able to even be a challenge to a battle-hardened, already on its way to be a hero of the realm, fully decked in magical items warrior? Even more so once you're done with an expansion: why could a wasp in Drustvar be any threat to someone who defeated Argus the Unmaker, or in a single-player perspective, defeated high cultists of N'zoth in Stormsong the day before?

Levelling is now the game tutorial, introducing people to the world setting, gameplay and mechanics. It actually does the later quite badly, and it's something they should work on with more content like Exile's reach, teaching progressively more important mechanics, like interrupting, dispelling, kiting, etc.

[kukkamies]

End game is the only thing thar matters? Leveling in classic is the worst iteration of wow leveling by a large margin. Slow grindy and boring. No dopamine to be found sorry.

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Omg YOU NEED TO WATCH FOR A PAT? Holy fucking skill batman. I feel the dopamine suuuuuuuuurging and my ability to look with my eyes for 3 seconds and stand there and wait. Boring and tedious

I level trying to pull until the limit. Died more times in classic 1-20 than in retail 1-60. Warlock is really top tier classic character. It was intense balancing health, mana , pet mana and cooldowns at all times. In retail the only thing is your cooldown or cooldowns. If you have it pull 15 mobs, if not pull only 5.

[munkeyinorbit]

Outrage trains are good. Best a pay to win MMO dies before being born than build a playerbase it doesn't deserve who'll stick around when they go pay to win.

Microtransactions are a cancer that needs to be wiped out.

The world is against you on that one buddy otherwise it wouldn't be so lucrative.

[kukkamies]

Back in the days, yes, I agree that was expected, but boy was it not satisfying for most people. Getting killed because a mob repopped at the wrong time, a patrol you has no idea would come from there because it had a stupidly long pathing or was engaged in something else, or mob snapping back to someone who tried resetting them and just killing you was absolutely no fun. Obviously, you could just look from a distance for 5 minute to see every mob, paths etc and play accordingly, but just watching npc move around isn't what people consider fun.

Thing is, game design changed along with players expectations, and people no longer wish to be killed by a random monster when you're supposed to have slain literal gods and wearing a bunch of over powerful magic items. Why should a random thief in Alterac be able to even be a challenge to a battle-hardened, already on its way to be a hero of the realm, fully decked in magical items warrior? Even more so once you're done with an expansion: why could a wasp in Drustvar be any threat to someone who defeated Argus the Unmaker, or in a single-player perspective, defeated high cultists of N'zoth in Stormsong the day before?

Levelling is now the game tutorial, introducing people to the world setting, gameplay and mechanics. It actually does the later quite badly, and it's something they should work on with more content like Exile's reach, teaching progressively more important mechanics, like interrupting, dispelling, kiting, etc.

The being a hero and god who saved the planet multiple times never hit with me. Was such a big disconnect to go from being praised in your class hall to collecting frogs for some peasant.
It happened in Shadowlands too with you being the special Maw Walker. Then collecting some bear meat or helping a trade wagon pick up pieces of their wheel...

Are we a really dense hero who has no idea what his position in the world is?

[starstationprofm]

I mean it costs what? 800 dollars to buy it with tokens? I mean that is still very prestigious.

No, it isn't. It just means you have irl $

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The world is against you on that one buddy otherwise it wouldn't be so lucrative.

I don't care if a game makes money. If it's pay to win I'm probably not investing in it anyway.

[Redroniksre]

No, it isn't. It just means you have irl $

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I don't care if a game makes money. If it's pay to win I'm probably not investing in it anyway.

If you think a lot of people are going to drop 800 for the mount, i don't know what to tell you. Most people aren't going to do that, thus prestigious.

[starstationprofm]

If you think a lot of people are going to drop 800 for the mount, i don't know what to tell you. Most people aren't going to do that, thus prestigious.

Doesn't matter if they will, the fact that you can buy it with a wallet is enough to lower its prestige.

[Edge-]

Doesn't matter if they will, the fact that you can buy it with a wallet is enough to lower its prestige.

I mean hell...you can do that with anything purchasable for in-game currency in any game if you don't care much about the legality of it. Third party currency sellers exist in every game. And even for many achievements, you can buy carries for them from other folks in-game so you're not really "earning" that, either. My guild in WoW used to sell achieves for big money in LK (in-game gold).

Which is why placing so much value in those kinds of things is kinda silly to begin with.

[ClassicPeon]

I mean hell...you can do that with anything purchasable for in-game currency in any game if you don't care much about the legality of it. Third party currency sellers exist in every game. And even for many achievements, you can buy carries for them from other folks in-game so you're not really "earning" that, either. My guild in WoW used to sell achieves for big money in LK (in-game gold).

Which is why placing so much value in those kinds of things is kinda silly to begin with.

There are people with low morale in all corners of the world. The rest of the world does not revolve around them however.

A game being p2w is not the same as people with low morale selling achievements to people with low self asteem.

[Fencers]

This is an odd thing to say imo.

If i play a single player story driven game, then you are right, i dont care if someone else pays a few bucks and gets to see the end credit scene without playing the game.

If i play a competitive multiplayer game(doesnt have to be pvp to be competitive) then it matters a lot. If most people just buy their "rank" or whatever prestige is in the game, that prestige's worth changes and becomes mostly useless.

Lets say you could buy invincible in wow. That mount now lost all its prestige in the game because it no longer required you to do something in the game to get it.

None of that is gameplay. How you feel about transitory concepts like "prestige" is not only personal but irrelvent to gameplay.

[starstationprofm]

I mean hell...you can do that with anything purchasable for in-game currency in any game if you don't care much about the legality of it. Third party currency sellers exist in every game. And even for many achievements, you can buy carries for them from other folks in-game so you're not really "earning" that, either. My guild in WoW used to sell achieves for big money in LK (in-game gold).

Which is why placing so much value in those kinds of things is kinda silly to begin with.

Ridiculous to compare gold sold illegally by some Chinese company using a VPN, bots and other illegal/against ToS means and the company itself selling gold.

[Edge-]

Ridiculous to compare gold sold illegally by some Chinese company using a VPN, bots and other illegal/against ToS means and the company itself selling gold.

Blizzard doesn't sell gold, it doesn't "magick" gold into existence. The gold used to purchase the tokens comes from gold earned in-game, so it had to be farmed by some players at some point. Other games use direct systems for this (GW2 has an exchange for gems <-> gold) as well.

The point remains that even without an official system, there are ways to "cheat" for almost all the expensive items or achievements in a game that are supposed to be "prestigious". Getting the achievement or expensive item should be a purely personal thing, you did it the legit way and you earned it. If someone else paid for the achievement? Who cares, you still earned it the legit way. Someone else exploited the achievement? You'll never know that they did, and it doesn't detract from your genuine accomplishment.

[starstationprofm]

Blizzard doesn't sell gold, it doesn't "magick" gold into existence. The gold used to purchase the tokens comes from gold earned in-game, so it had to be farmed by some players at some point. Other games use direct systems for this (GW2 has an exchange for gems <-> gold) as well.

The point remains that even without an official system, there are ways to "cheat" for almost all the expensive items or achievements in a game that are supposed to be "prestigious". Getting the achievement or expensive item should be a purely personal thing, you did it the legit way and you earned it. If someone else paid for the achievement? Who cares, you still earned it the legit way. Someone else exploited the achievement? You'll never know that they did, and it doesn't detract from your genuine accomplishment.

And my point remains that illegal ways to cheat are a world apart from the game encouraging you to cheat by making it part of the experience.

Someone else exploited the achievement? You'll never know that they did

Sure you can, you look at their rio/logs most of the time

[Nzx]

You sound pretty upset.

Also making fun of minimum wage workers is not a good look.

Hahahaha. The irony. Sorry you make fuck all money I guess but whose problem is that because it ain't mine? I mean I remember being young too and I would probably have been salty that other people had more money than me, but I didn't sit on forums and screech about "prestige" I went out and got better jobs.

These discussions are so fucking absurd. It's like complaining that someone else catches an uber to work and you catch a train. If you want the product, buy it. If you don't want the product, don't buy it. If you can't afford it, save money on other things or make more money. Suggesting that because you won't/don't/can't Uber to work everyone else should be banned from doing so is the most embarrassingly entitled shit. You guys are right though, since you can only afford sandals everyone else who plays football with you should be forced to only wear sandals too. Everyone should be at the lowest possible common denominator and there should be zero incentive to improve your own life because that's unfair.

[Cracked]

Hahahaha. The irony. Sorry you make fuck all money I guess but whose problem is that because it ain't mine? I mean I remember being young too and I would probably have been salty that other people had more money than me, but I didn't sit on forums and screech about "prestige" I went out and got better jobs.

These discussions are so fucking absurd. It's like complaining that someone else catches an uber to work and you catch a train. If you want the product, buy it. If you don't want the product, don't buy it. If you can't afford it, save money on other things or make more money. Suggesting that because you won't/don't/can't Uber to work everyone else should be banned from doing so is the most embarrassingly entitled shit. You guys are right though, since you can only afford sandals everyone else who plays football with you should be forced to only wear sandals too. Everyone should be at the lowest possible common denominator and there should be zero incentive to improve your own life because that's unfair.

Wow, with attitudes like these, no fucking wonder we are getting ever closer to the Asian model of whoever spends most, wins. I remember being a poor kid too, but unlike your view, I respect that the games allowed me a mostly level playing field irrespective of how much money you had irl. It gives me great moral disgust to see people arguing for "skipping ahead" because they can afford it.

[kukkamies]

Wow, with attitudes like these, no fucking wonder we are getting ever closer to the Asian model of whoever spends most, wins. I remember being a poor kid too, but unlike your view, I respect that the games allowed me a mostly level playing field irrespective of how much money you had irl. It gives me great moral disgust to see people arguing for "skipping ahead" because they can afford it.

This yeah. Games should more about starting from same spot, not less. It'a good Western players still like that more even if it is going the p2w way.