What would be the greatest punishment and also reward for Sylvannas Windrunner?

[Powerogue]

She was screwed over in her first death, for sure. Her actions up to the death of Arthas are at worst morally dubious antiheroic. But her actions after that were utterly black-hearted evil.

Kael'thas started out fighting for his people before ultimately selling them out for power to the Burning Legion, and he got Revendreth. But that's because, with his pride beaten out of him, he might actually admit he was wrong and use his power for good again.

When Sylvanas watched Teldrassil burn, in those dead eyes there was a faint smile. That is Sylvanas Windrunner, as she is now.

This was her choice that would've had me consider Revendreth.



Maw.

[Soon-TM]

Keep her in the Maw as the new Jailor, while making sure she won't be able to pull any tricks like the Blue Man's. Fits her like a glove.

[geco]

I totally agree. I tend to ignore all the ret-cons and dumbing down Blizzard engages in these days because they’re just ruining their own lore.

It’s just a reflection of the world we live in today, where nobody seems to be able to tell up from down anymore. Everything has become subjective and nobody knows what makes a good story anymore.

The lore was at it’s best in WC III and it’s all downhill from there. The way Illidan runs around like Zoro in Legion is the best example of that. We can’t have « heroes » who do bad things because that’s too complicated. Instead we have to live in a two dimensional world where « evil » only applies when you’re being completely psychotic and « good » when you’re a totally selfless schmuck who’s never had a bad thought in his life. It’s pretty fuckin’ lame.

And the amount of people who say that Arthas is a bad character because he is a bad guy.

There are people who believe that a "good character" or "a character you like" has to be a "good guy."

[Powerogue]

Sure, if you also restore to their original life:

- Garithos and his forces.
- The Royal Apothecary Society's test subjects (civilians included).
- Nathanos' cousin.
- The people of Gilneas.
- The people of Ambermill.
- The people of Southshore.
- The people of Hillsbrad.
- The people of Stromgarde.
- The people of Teldrassil.
- The people of Kul Tiras who died in the Faction Assaults.
- The poor animals that she butchered in War Crimes.
- The Lakeshire peasant who died for his family.

Etc. etc. etc.

I still say the best ending would be this, but lining up every single one of their souls to take turns killing her before we rez her again. Especially Garithos.

[Vakna]

The greatest reward I can think of giving her is a quick death (deathier death), but to be honest that is far to kind for this level of hitler villain.

[Okacz]

And to think there was any debate about whether or not Arthas belongs in the Maw... Arthas is probably the single nastiest character in all of WoW. He doesn’t even have the excuse of being a demon or some sort of void creature hell-bent on total annihilation. He’s just a narcissist sociopath who thought he’d rule forever.

I mean, he was being influenced by Ner'Zhul after obtaining Frostmourne, right? This doesn't change all the bad shit he did to get to that point (killing mercs, burning ships, being a dick to Uthers), but that's small potatos in comparison to other evil characters in the franchise.

Check out his confrontation with Mal'Ganis after obtaining the sword. Mal'Ganis wasn't scared at all because he believed that under the influence of LK, Arthas won't kill him. And he'd be right, if Ner'Zhul didn't basically say "yeah, I don't give a crap about him, kill him off". At that point his actions are being guided. In Wotlk we even learn that it were in fact the last shreds of Arthases struggling consciousness that kept the Undead at bay for so long.

[AcidicSyn]

1 (one) date with Mudmug in a restaurant of her choice.

Several dates with Mudmug at a cafe with food prepared exclusively by Nomi.

- - - Updated - - -

I still say the best ending would be this, but lining up every single one of their souls to take turns killing her before we rez her again. Especially Garithos.

Garithos deserved it.

[Arganis]

And the amount of people who say that Arthas is a bad character because he is a bad guy.

There are people who believe that a "good character" or "a character you like" has to be a "good guy."

I guess people really are just getting dumber and dumber...

Same society where food doesn’t have to be good anymore. Just covered in enough sugar to make you forget you’re eating shit.

That’s pretty much a concept that applies to everything these days.

[AcidicSyn]

I mean, he was being influenced by Ner'Zhul after obtaining Frostmourne, right? This doesn't change all the bad shit he did to get to that point (killing mercs, burning ships, being a dick to Uthers), but that's small potatos in comparison to other evil characters in the franchise.

Check out his confrontation with Mal'Ganis after obtaining the sword. Mal'Ganis wasn't scared at all because he believed that under the influence of LK, Arthas won't kill him. And he'd be right, if Ner'Zhul didn't basically say "yeah, I don't give a crap about him, kill him off". At that point his actions are being guided. In Wotlk we even learn that it were in fact the last shreds of Arthases struggling consciousness that kept the Undead at bay for so long.

I'm not sure if this bit was retconned or not, but in the Arthas novel don't we learn that Arthas purged Ner'zul from his mind well before we attack ICC?

[Sunderella]

It is obvious that what Sylvannas always had a soft spot for her mortal life, blood elves, her sisters etc. At least until she jumped to her death in Icecrown. For that I would simply give her the gift of bring her back to life as she was.

After that though, with all the things she now knows and has seen I am afraid shes to far gone to simply be content to be brought back to life. So I am going to assume she can't be satisfied by anything else other that whatever she's has been planning since she became an agent of Death and I would say that a great punishment for her would be to be brought back to her previous mortal life.

[Nerovar]

For the case of Arthas. Arthas, Jaina, and Uther are all to blame for the end result. Mainly Arthas. But Jaina and Uther too. They let him do a purge or they didn't help with the Purge. The option to run was not morally valid.

Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree. Uther and Jaina probably should have stopped Arthas. That being said, Arthas made his choice consciously and I don't believe that Uther and Jaina were in a position to actually save Arthas from himself. Apart from that, framing Uther as being "too harsh" with Arthas during their final confrontation is purely nonsensical when you consider that Arthas was already completely lost at that point. He didn't owe him any more leniency and his sole responsibility was protecting the remnants of Lordaeron from the monster Arthas became.

[8bithamster]

I have difficulty imagining Hitler going to Heaven on the condition that he loses his memories, so the same applies here.

That's a quick edgy Godwin. Damn

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I'm not sure if this bit was retconned or not, but in the Arthas novel don't we learn that Arthas purged Ner'zul from his mind well before we attack ICC?

Ya he did it when he got off the throne for the first time as well as purging his good part which was probably his soul.

[Arganis]

Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree. Uther and Jaina probably should have stopped Arthas. That being said, Arthas made his choice consciously and I don't believe that Uther and Jaina were in a position to actually save Arthas from himself. Apart from that, framing Uther as being "too harsh" with Arthas during their final confrontation is purely nonsensical when you consider that Arthas was already completely lost at that point. He didn't owe him any more leniency and his sole responsibility was protecting the remnants of Lordaeron from the monster Arthas became.

When you click on Arthas in WC III you get bits and pieces of his psychology as it was intended back in the day.

Stuff like “I’ll be twice the king my father ever was” That’s not just Ner’Zhul talking. Arthas was always a pompous prick. That’s why when he merged with Ner’Zhul he basically betrayed him, the same he did everybody else. Becoming the dominant personality because that’s who he is.

When he told Uther he intended to live forever just before killing him, he meant it. The guy was a total sociopath.

Trying to ret-con him even harder than Illidan just to make “the Jailer” look like the one and only big bad is just stupid. It’s like the people who write the lore for WoW have the emotional maturity of 8yr olds. At the rate they’re going soon Arthas will be fighting the jailer too cause he was also secretly a paragon of virtue all along. It’s a total fuckin’ joke.

[Powerogue]

Garithos deserved it.

And was a pathetic racist jackass, which is why he should get the last shot. Really twist the knife. That or Nathanos, maybe. Just as long as it's sufficiently cruel and ironic.

She hasn't earned "going out in a blaze of glory that inadvertently proves their point in the end" like Garrosh got.

[Okacz]

I'm not sure if this bit was retconned or not, but in the Arthas novel don't we learn that Arthas purged Ner'zul from his mind well before we attack ICC?

I think it was meant to show that he erased the corrupting influence of Ner'Zhul, but was still influenced by all the other shit (Helm etc). The "Father, is it over?" moment in game suggests that he wasn't in control at all.

Don't remember much from that novel anyway, not a fan.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I think it was meant to show that he erased the corrupting influence of Ner'Zhul, but was still influenced by all the other shit (Helm etc). The "Father, is it over?" moment in game suggests that he wasn't in control at all.

Don't remember much from that novel anyway, not a fan.

The book doesn’t really frame ner’zhul as a corrupting influence just the dude giving the orders until he puts on the crown.

Arthas’s corruption was more or less flipping a switch once he picked up frostmourn he kept his memory’s but had his whole personality shift to only be the bad parts more or less making him a completely different person.

[Okacz]

The book doesn’t really frame ner’zhul as a corrupting influence just the dude giving the orders until he puts on the crown.

Arthas’s corruption was more or less flipping a switch once he picked up frostmourn he kept his memory’s but had his whole personality shift to only be the bad parts more or less making him a completely different person.

That makes sense. Damn, that means that "Sylvanas soul split into good and evil, and all we've seen is the evil part" plot is more grounded in lore than I though. Tho her personality didn't seem to change all that much after regaining consciousness as an undead, she was just more pissed off for obvious reasons.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

That makes sense. Damn, that means that "Sylvanas soul split into good and evil, and all we've seen is the evil part" plot is more grounded in lore than I though. Tho her personality didn't seem to change all that much after regaining consciousness as an undead, she was just more pissed off for obvious reasons.

Not really no, while the book portrays arthas as having a shift it also shows that sylvanas is the same as she was pre death but without will over her actions so she wouldn’t fall into the same boat as arthas and the same goes for pretty much every other undead.

Most undead aren’t bound to frostmourn but instead the crown so it’s likely that why they aren’t soulless and instead just lack free will.

[Dellis0991]

"I just want to make her face beat up my hand!" ~ Some random player