What would be the greatest punishment and also reward for Sylvannas Windrunner?

[Arganis]

Not really no, while the book portrays arthas as having a shift it also shows that sylvanas is the same as she was pre death but without will over her actions so she wouldn’t fall into the same boat as arthas and the same goes for pretty much every other undead.

Most undead aren’t bound to frostmourn but instead the crown so it’s likely that why they aren’t soulless and instead just lack free will.

Well, they’re clearly going somewhere with the Uther soul split. Not to mention taking Arthas’s responsibility away and insinuating he was possibly not in control at all.

The idea of the good of a soul splitting from the bad in specific situations is an interesting one off concept, but if that’s how they plan to explain every bad thing ever done by Arthas and Sylvanas it’s gonna suck.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Well, they’re clearly going somewhere with the Uther soul split. Not to mention taking Arthas’s responsibility away and insinuating he was possibly not in control at all.

The idea of the good of a soul splitting from the bad in specific situations is an interesting one off concept, but if that’s how they plan to explain every bad thing ever done by Arthas and Sylvanas it’s gonna suck.

They likely will do that just say that arthas soul was split instead of losing the whole thing and that he did the same to sylvanas even though the book doesn’t support that.

It would raise a ton of questions when it comes to other people arthas raised but didn’t turn evil but they would likely ignore those questions and move on.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I kind of like that ending to be honest. I would however, make sure she is aware of who she is and why she has returned to life, instead of blissfully working her way through a new incarnation.

This.

No forgetting her past actions, that'd be too merciful.

[Le Conceptuel]

That's a quick edgy Godwin. Damn

Most people who commit a genocide are on the same level.

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There is a difference, Hitler was alive when he did those atrocities, like Arthas was, Sylvanas though, was undead... in life she was not like that at all.

Douglas MacArthur: Waifu Edition isn't exactly a big step up from Hitler.

[Houle]

I totally agree. I tend to ignore all the ret-cons and dumbing down Blizzard engages in these days because they’re just ruining their own lore.

It’s just a reflection of the world we live in today, where nobody seems to be able to tell up from down anymore. Everything has become subjective and nobody knows what makes a good story anymore.

The lore was at it’s best in WC III and it’s all downhill from there. The way Illidan runs around like Zoro in Legion is the best example of that. We can’t have « heroes » who do bad things because that’s too complicated. Instead we have to live in a two dimensional world where « evil » only applies when you’re being completely psychotic and « good » when you’re a totally selfless schmuck who’s never had a bad thought in his life. It’s pretty fuckin’ lame.

facts
god i miss WC3 illidan, who wasnt a villain but also definitely not a real good guy.

He was against the legion, the scourge and all the other really bad dudes, but at the same time, he craved power and tried to save his own skin constantly. Thats why he was interesting to watch, its the reason the character became so popular in the first place.

Now compare that to legions illidan, who willingly stayed behind to act as sargeras's jailer, therefore dooming himself to yet another prison for eternity, who screamed "the legions end is ALL I SEEEEK", and whatever else.

[Dazmalak]

The most satisfying ending to me is Sylvanas usurps the Jailer, leads an undead/mawsworn invasion to Azeroth and takes out the entire world, sets that trainwreck of a fucking planet/titan/orwhateverthefuck on fire and laughs while it burns. Bonus points if we get to see her gut her sisters before it's all over. After that it can all implode while a million voices ring out in unison "literally Hitler!!!" as they die.

Honestly, I don't really care and I'm surprised anyone does at this point. Blizz has actively killed its own lore for several expansions now, so I say just put it out of its misery.

[cocomen2]

She must marry Anduin.

[Maxilian]

...And yet [9.1 spoilers] Uther's 9.1 quest line reframes the events of WC3 in a way that implies that Arthas was not responsible for his actions because Uther somehow failed to stop him/convince him.

Oh...

That's a way to put it, I never saw it like that, it just looked like Uther felt regret of not "trying hard enough", the whole idea of seeing Arthas with hatred and not compassion even if the out come would have been the same, in general, it looked like it was more about himself and not Arthas, how he felt he betrayed his own ideals and oath out of anger in that moment.

[Sondrelk]

I still cannot wrap my head around redeeming a character who willingly sent souls to hell to feed a universe destroying entity for the purpose of destroying the universe.

Maybe if she was actually tricked and genuinely thought that the Jailer was the one trying to stop the souls being sent to hell, but she isnt. She constantly gloats about the futility of life and how easier it would be if everyone just went and died already. Not to mention the Jailer is so beyond cartoonishly evil that even a very generous light of Sylvanas would show her as a complete idiot if she was actually tricked.

The most positive ending Sylvanas could get is having her soul destroyed by the Jailer when he inevitably turns on her.

Though honestly I am really struggling to care about her story anymore. So long as she stays as far away from Azeroth and any future story I really couldnt care less.
The Forsaken is already being lessened by proximity as their story entirely revolves around her instead of more interesting plot points like internal conflict over whether to die out or create more undead, or even simple things like whether they have a moral obligation to share Lordaeron with their former families or not.

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Oh...

That's a way to put it, I never saw it like that, it just looked like Uther felt regret of not "trying hard enough", the whole idea of seeing Arthas with hatred and not compassion even if the out come would have been the same, in general, it looked like it was more about himself and not Arthas, how he felt he betrayed his own ideals and oath out of anger in that moment.

That is what I read too. Uther seems more distressed he wasnt living up to his ideals as a paladin rather than genuinely thinking he could have stopped Arthas. The only time it even gets close to that is when Uther remembers Arthas having cold feet over becoming a paladin which is immediately shot down.

[Nerovar]

Oh...

That's a way to put it, I never saw it like that, it just looked like Uther felt regret of not "trying hard enough", the whole idea of seeing Arthas with hatred and not compassion even if the out come would have been the same, in general, it looked like it was more about himself and not Arthas, how he felt he betrayed his own ideals and oath out of anger in that moment.

My initial reply was worded too strongly but basically...

It's a retelling of Arthas' journey and fall through the perspective of Uther who comes to a conclusion that places more blame on himself and makes him more sympathetic to Arthas. The quest shows us how that Uther apparently didn't fully grasp the virtue of compassion which is why he "failed" Arthas as a mentor. This might not exonerate Arthas but it certainly gives more credence to a view that Arthas bears less responsibility.

[geco]

My initial reply was worded too strongly but basically...

It's a retelling of Arthas' journey and fall through the perspective of Uther who comes to a conclusion that places more blame on himself and makes him more sympathetic to Arthas. The quest shows us how that Uther apparently didn't fully grasp the virtue of compassion which is why he "failed" Arthas as a mentor. This might not exonerate Arthas but it certainly gives more credence to a view that Arthas bears less responsibility.

I think it is a mistake of modern concepts.
Arthas has 9/10 responsibility and continues to have that responsibility.
Only now uther has gone up from 1/10 to 3/10 responsibility.

Responsibility is not like matter. You can increase Person A without lowering Person B.

[loras]

For her actions in life, Sylvanas should have been rewarded greatly, she gave all she could to her people. She was a very good she elf. This needs to be rewarded. Our actions in life matter

In undeath however, Sylvanas is different, warped by dark powers, she against her free will, but she does so much evil too, funnily enough her motives are sometimes noble and in her own twisted way she is trying to do a good thing. However this Sylvanas should be utterly destroyed and severely punished.

What is the one thing that simultaneously achieves both?

Imo: it would be returning Sylvanas back to her original life or some form of modified Kyrian. It destroys the undead Sylvanas and as a big hater of life, inflicts the most severe punishment that Sylvanas could have wanted. Yet on the flip side, it gives back original Sylvanas a chance to live the life or if new Kyrian ensures a future that rewards her deeds in life..

Undead Sylvanas would utterly despise becoming a Kyrian or returning to being a high elf.. but the person that is reborn or restored would greatly appreciate and love that.

Life Sylvanas gets a blissful afterlife full of her wildest dreams of Quel'thalas' eternal spring, all her friends and lived ones will be there.
Undead Sylvanas shall be her powerless shadow, forced to be dragged along, watching but never partaking, eternally.

[Nerovar]

I think it is a mistake of modern concepts.
Arthas has 9/10 responsibility and continues to have that responsibility.
Only now uther has gone up from 1/10 to 3/10 responsibility.

Responsibility is not like matter. You can increase Person A without lowering Person B.

I don't necessarily disagree but I think some people don't see it this way and it gives credence to these people's views.

[Raetary]

1 (one) date with Mudmug in a restaurant of her choice.

You must have misread the title.

Dating Mudmug is no punishment, it's an honor.

[Lane]

I want her humanity restored and I want her to be crushed under the weight of having willingly become the very thing she hated and died trying to fight. I want long term emotional wrestling with that fact. None of this BS "Is it over?" Arthas death. She should be made 100% mortal, only keeping her archery skills, and spending the rest of her short life in misery over the pain and suffering she inflicted upon the world. Only then will I feel satisfied enough to accept a fate other than the Maw for her afterlife.

[MrWolly]

Find a way to send her to our world and give her to Danuser.

[Smallfruitbat]

You must have misread the title.

Dating Mudmug is no punishment, it's an honor.

The punishment is that this honour is never to be repeated. She will spend her time staring into his glorious portrait and pining.

[Lochton]

For her actions in life, Sylvanas should have been rewarded greatly, she gave all she could to her people. She was a very good she elf. This needs to be rewarded. Our actions in life matter

In undeath however, Sylvanas is different, warped by dark powers, she against her free will, but she does so much evil too, funnily enough her motives are sometimes noble and in her own twisted way she is trying to do a good thing. However this Sylvanas should be utterly destroyed and severely punished.

What is the one thing that simultaneously achieves both?

Imo: it would be returning Sylvanas back to her original life or some form of modified Kyrian. It destroys the undead Sylvanas and as a big hater of life, inflicts the most severe punishment that Sylvanas could have wanted. Yet on the flip side, it gives back original Sylvanas a chance to live the life or if new Kyrian ensures a future that rewards her deeds in life..

Undead Sylvanas would utterly despise becoming a Kyrian or returning to being a high elf.. but the person that is reborn or restored would greatly appreciate and love that.

No thanks.

I'm voting on redemption by sacrifice (So, she redeems herself (good) but dies (bad, as she doesn't want to die). I do not believe she is redeemable enough to join one of the four zones, though - and if any, she would be Maldraxxus or Revendreth.

[bagina]

For the punishment, locked in a room with Arthas for all eternity, Sartre's No Exit style.

For the reward, hard to tell. Seems like Sylvanas herself doesn't know what she wants, these days. This is what irks me the most. Does she want peace? Does she want justice? Does she want to die? I'd say "for her plans to succeed", but what are her plans really? She doesn't seem very convinced in her own cause. I'll settle on the simple "she gets a big power-up".

[qwerty123456]

The greatest punishment/reward for Sylvannas would be for her split soul to be fused back into one and the newly restored Sylvannas feels so terrible about what a pos she was that she jumps off a cliff landing on some spikey ore dies and is sent to the super shadowlands where she is put in the super maw for all eternity.