Israel and Palestine Conflict Heats Up

[Endus]

This whole thread has been one big whataboutism. But Hamas still were the ones who launched rockets first. And I do hope you won't try to argue that it was a reasonable reaction to protest supression at holy site (even that is debatable).

I have consistently been making the case that I see both Hamas and Israel's government as being two violent peas in a pod. And that I condemn anyone targeting and killing civilians.

But pretending that Israel's unprovoked assault on Al-Aqsa mosque and the continued attempts at ethnic cleansing in East Jerusalem don't amount to provocation on Israel's part? That's just not honest.

Again, to repeat something I said earlier; "provocoation" is not "justification". So don't misconstrue what I'm actually saying.

[Cringefest]

Ceasefire is basically here (might even hold), see you all in few years going in circles.



This whole thread has been one big whataboutism. But Hamas still were the ones who launched rockets first. And I do hope you won't try to argue that it was a reasonable reaction to protest supression at holy site (even that is debatable).



And here we go downplaying again. One could ask what impact millions might have from endless warning sirens, but oh well...



Ah, blaming USA. Never get's old. Attacks in Sinai are not an issue, I guess. Not to mention avoiding anything about tunnels going to Israel. Surely you would not imply they would smuggle matterials from Israel, would you?
Somehow they do get new homes, never wondered about it? Also, does not answer why Hamas prefers spending it on waging war instead.



They have imports, obviously. Same answer as above. Not ideal, but imports are still happening. Just like Hamas is still spending untold amounts of cash on weapons, both from the taxes of poor locals and the aid of gullible international suckers.

I'm sorry Easo, but there is a huge difference between you points you make, or even how you approach the discussion, and Cubby, to give you an example.
This post above is just a series of points built on misinformation. Before even addressing what you're saying, we'd need to discuss a range of points to make sure you either 1) talk out of ignorance or 2) you know what's going on and refuse to accept reality for a variety of reasons.
To be honest, not many have the patience to do that, so it's just going to turn into name calling and mudslinging (mudbricks slinging to make Chairman happy).

1) no the whole thread hasn't been about whataboutism, this whole thing started from the Al Aqsa confrontation, as reported by media.

2) no, nowhere in this plane of existence there is a reality where Israelis suffer more as a result of this situation.

3) yes, blaming the USA in here is perfectly reasonable as they are the biggest supporter and funders of this twisted Israeli government. Most of this mess is on them.

4) no, there aren't. Imports are controlled under a complete illegal blockade. Construction material isn't allowed.

So at this point the question arise. Are you just misinformed or paid by somebody to come up with this shit?

[JohnBrown1917]

https://apnews.com/article/gaza-isra...c27000c74b?new

"GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — Israeli media say Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Security Cabinet has approved a unilateral cease-fire to halt an 11-day military operation in the Gaza Strip"

That explains the current bombings, gotta get them all used up before the cease-fire goes in effect.

[Easo]

I'm sorry Easo,

So at this point the question arise. Are you just misinformed or paid by somebody to come up with this shit?

No, you are not.

Obviously Mossad is paying me directly, duh.
Jokes aside I am simply someone who does not believe what a literal terrorist goverment or screaming mass media says. Pallywood is a thing, sadly. Bibi's warhawk goverment is a thing. But I will not listen to "fascists/nazis in charge of Israel wants to steal all the land/do genocide".

Truly, see you all after few years where we will go around in circles again.

[Cringefest]

No, you are not.

I am simply someone who does not believe what a literal terrorist goverment or screaming mass media says. Pallywood is a thing, sadly.

And then he talks about whataboutism.
Absolutely pathetic.

[Easo]

And then he talks about whataboutism.
Absolutely pathetic.

Spending time on some specific Russian webpages (and not only) leads to various interesting resources like maps with analytics, statistics, interesting Twitter posts (especially the propaganda ones), photos/videos, etc. Yeah, I have a reason to stand by what I said. Tells a lot when people mostly points fingers NOT at terrorist organization.
Goodbye.

[Endus]

Jokes aside I am simply someone who does not believe what a literal terrorist goverment or screaming mass media says.

So you're just gonna resort to shouting "FAKE NEWS" like a Trump supporter when the facts don't line up with what you want to believe?

I thought more highly of you, dude.

[Bodakane]

Basically no method of construction is going to hold up to bombing, not unless you're literally building everything as an armored bunker. We just saw strikes take down a couple buildings in Gaza the last week or so. It's not like current construction methods are holding up to the bombardment either.

Gaza has limited resources and has to use what they can lay hands on.

One of the best attempts is coquina. Its prevalent in St. Augustine, Florida. The Castillo De San Marcos is made entirely of coquina and it was impervious to cannon fire. They basically just stopped dead part way in on impact.

Its actually pretty fascinating.

https://www.nps.gov/casa/learn/histo...-augustine.htm

[Easo]

So you're just gonna resort to shouting "FAKE NEWS" like a Trump supporter when the facts don't line up with what you want to believe?

I thought more highly of you, dude.

There is difference between fake and what I wrote. Maybe I should have used different words. News articles, for example, sometimes look really funny when they are trying to write a neutral news report, as if Hamas is a normal goverment and this is between two countries, or when they go into something similar to that WP post and start moralizing.
Headlines in style of "Israel air strikes kill xx in Gaza, houses destroyed." sells better after all.

[Endus]

There is difference between fake and what I wrote. Maybe I should have used different words. News articles sometimes look really funny when they are trying to write a neutral news report, as if Hamas is a normal goverment and this is between two countries, or when they go into something similar to that WP post and start moralizing.
Headlines in style of "Israel air strikes kill xx in Gaza, houses destroyed." sells better after all.

The point is that your approach is to evaluate media based on whether you want to believe what they tell you, not based on the validity and accuracy of their reporting.

That's exactly the same motivation behind Trumpsters shouting FAKE NEWS at every story that puts any Republican in a bad light.

That you expect all news to be unflinchingly biased towards Israel rather than evaluating the facts objectively says everything about your personal bias making you reject facts and reason, not about any supposed bias or inaccuracy in the media.

You claim there's a difference, but your attitude is exactly the same, and for pretty much exactly the same reasons.

[downnola]

And here we go downplaying again. One could ask what impact millions might have from endless warning sirens, but oh well...

Lmao, you are trying to draw an equivalence. You're a hopeless apologist, my dude. What do I need you for when I can just click on Fox News and get their take?

Jokes aside I am simply someone who does not believe what a literal terrorist goverment or screaming mass media says.

You sound like a Kremlin stooge right now, I hope you realize it.

[Cringefest]

Spending time on some specific Russian webpages (and not only) leads to various interesting resources like maps with analytics, statistics, interesting Twitter posts (especially the propaganda ones), photos/videos, etc. Yeah, I have a reason to stand by what I said. Tells a lot when people mostly points fingers NOT at terrorist organization.
Goodbye.

Yes, that reason is called misinformation. You either don't know what's going on, or you have some personal reason that prevent you from facing reality.
The reality of things however, doesn't change.

[DingDongKing]

I think it was @Easo talking about Hamas being popular in Palestine. Almost 60% of Palestinians disapprove of their rule of Gaza. Hamas and Fatah will still get 35-40% of votes, but neither will have a majority. Moreover, Hamas are only even popular because they’re the ones offering resistance to the Israeli Government’s bullshit.

[Endus]

I think it was @Easo talking about Hamas being popular in Palestine. Almost 60% of Palestinians disapprove of their rule of Gaza. Hamas and Fatah will still get 35-40% of votes, but neither will have a majority. Moreover, Hamas are only even popular because they’re the ones offering resistance to the Israeli Government’s bullshit.

There's also a lot of dislike for corruption within Fatah. Palestinian politics really is not a simple binary thing.

[Felya]

There's also a lot of dislike for corruption within Fatah. Palestinian politics really is not a simple binary thing.

In the case of Fatah vs hamas... it’s actually pretty simple, when you consider negotiating with Israel, US, Egypt and Jordan, towards a two state solution, was considered treason by hamas. Remember, unlike the Fatah position for a two state solution, hamas didn’t recognize Israel as a state. As in, they wanted a single state solution... as in, no Israel...

The west favors Fatah for very obvious reasons... because accusations of corruption, by people murdering Fatah and their families, is dubious at best.

Edit: Did a public execution of a Fatah leader’s two sons, count as corruption?

[DingDongKing]

There's also a lot of dislike for corruption within Fatah. Palestinian politics really is not a simple binary thing.

Agreed. I wanted to address it because folks like him and others that strawman in favour of the Israeli Government will say, ‘oh but Palestinians aren’t innocent since they support Hamas’. All the while forgetting that Netanyahu is super popular despite bombing innocent Palestinians for 11 days straight.

[Theodarzna]

Agreed. I wanted to address it because folks like him and others that strawman in favour of the Israeli Government will say, ‘oh but Palestinians aren’t innocent since they support Hamas’. All the while forgetting that Netanyahu is super popular despite bombing innocent Palestinians for 11 days straight.

I don't believe Netanyahu has ever publicly stated nor made it his official written policy to annihilate the Palestinians; where as Hamas has and is wildly popular.

[Draco-Onis]

In the case of Fatah vs hamas... it’s actually pretty simple, when you consider negotiating with Israel, US, Egypt and Jordan, towards a two state solution, was considered treason by hamas. Remember, unlike the Fatah position for a two state solution, hamas didn’t recognize Israel as a state. As in, they wanted a single state solution... as in, no Israel...

The west favors Fatah for very obvious reasons... because accusations of corruption, by people murdering Fatah and their families, is dubious at best.

Edit: Did a public execution of a Fatah leader’s two sons, count as corruption?

Okay one last try keep in mind this was in your original links.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_P...ative_election

The United States spent $2.3 million in USAID on support for the Palestinian elections, allegedly designed to bolster the image of President Abbas and his Fatah party. USAID's Offices used discretionary spending accounts for various projects, including tree planting, schoolroom additions, a soccer tournament, street cleaning, and computers at community centers. USAID removed its usual branding requirement on its sponsored activities. As a result, the US was accused of trying to influence the outcome of the elections.[8] The European Union supplied election observers to "assess the whole election process, including the legal framework, the political environment and campaign, electoral preparations, voting and counting as well as the post-election period".

Before the 2006 elections, the PLC was dominated by the Fatah movement, which held 68 of the 88 seats. However, Fatah had been beset by internal strife, with younger and more popular figures like Mohammed Dahlan (who took part in the negotiations of the 1993 Oslo Accords) and Marwan Barghouti (serving five life sentences in an Israeli jail on terrorism charges) levelling allegations of corruption against the Fatah leadership. Fatah organised primary elections to determine its candidate list, but the results were disputed and central lists were imposed in some areas. The younger faction submitted a list dubbed Al-Mustaqbal ("the Future"), headed by Barghouti. However, on 28 December 2005, the leaders of the two factions agreed to submit a single list to voters, headed by Barghouti, who actively campaigned for Fatah from his jail cell.[13] Despite this, the two groups were by no means fully reconciled.

[Cringefest]

I don't believe Netanyahu has ever publicly stated nor made it his official written policy to annihilate the Palestinians; where as Hamas has and is wildly popular.

Netanyahu about dealing with the Palestinians:
"beat them up, not once but repeatedly, beat them up so it hurts so badly, until it’s unbearable."

“Israel is not a state of all its citizens. According to the nation-state law we passed, Israel is the nation-state of the Jewish people — and not anyone else.”

“The Arabs have 22 states and we only have one state, and I have no intention of losing this state.”
That was Netanyahu. Compared to others he allowed in his government, he's a moderate:

“Palestinians are beasts, they are not human.”
Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan, Deputy Minister of Defense of Israel 2015–2018


“What’s so horrifying about understanding that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy?... They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.”
Ayelet Shaked, minister of justice 2015 - 2019

"The Palestinian threat harbors cancer-like attributes that have to be severed. There are all kinds of solutions to cancer. Some say it's necessary to amputate organs but at the moment I am applying chemotherapy."
Moshe Ya'alon defense minister 2013-2016

Yeah but sure. Maybe they didn't mean that.

[Edge-]

https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL1N2N01RD

It's good to know that years-old video is still being used while claiming it's from "current day". It's not even the same country, this is from Syria.