Israel and Palestine Conflict Heats Up

[mich4el]

Yeah that's a good point. I also have a good point to make. I found out that Jupiter is very important for our planet, because his gravity pull prevents asteroids reaching Earth. That could also mean end of life on Earth. Mad stuff what?

This is a good reason to support Israel
Israel can use Iron dome on asteroids to save the planet. Problem solved

[Gaidax]

This is a good reason to support Israel
Israel can use Iron dome on asteroids to save the planet. Problem solved

It's not working that way.

Now Arrow-3 - maybe. Definitely not Iron Dome.

[Cringefest]

This is a good reason to support Israel
Israel can use Iron dome on asteroids to save the planet. Problem solved

I trust Jupiter more.

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Yeah... So anyway...

In relation to rebuilding:

Palestinian officials on Friday said it would cost $100m to rebuild the damage to industry, power and agriculture in the already impoverished territory struggling under a devastating 14-year blockade.

[DingDongKing]

Imagine a country where a view like this one above is actually a legitimate political position shared by several people.

Innit. That’s some 10/10 propaganda he’s spouting. ‘Arab countries execute people who don’t follow their narrative’. Meanwhile, the Israeli Government is committing war crimes because they want to ethnically cleansed Arabs from land that the Israeli Government stole...

[JohnBrown1917]

Honestly Israel should capture that Gaza and send all palestinians as refuges to nearby Arab countries.
The whole idea of owning land is ridiculous. No country has a right to their land at all. if you can't defend your country, you're probably
a backward corrupt shithole that oppresses its citizens. Israel in 60 years became 1st world country with countless innovations in health, science, agriculture that have helped quality of life and saved lives all around the world. While most Arab countries still live of oil and have no innovations due their oppressive regimes, corruptions and executing people who are not muslims or don't support their narrative.
they live in semi-sharia law and want to make it full sharia law according to 80% Muslims

The whole idea of a man coming into some land and declaring "I OWN THIS LAND" is ridiculous
we don't own land, the land own us. And throughout the ages humans have been changing the imaginary borders back and forth
at this point Israel got nukes so there's nothing that can be done. Palastinains can go fuck off. And literally every country will accept them as refugees at this point. I don't want nuclear war that turns into WW3 and destroy all life on earth
so no you don't own anything nobody own anything it's just currently under your possession and if anything the land owns you not the other way around.

Thats one way to excuse ethnic cleansing.

[Specialka]

1. Israel Government's continuous behaviour breeds Hamas. I wonder how you justify the firing of bullets and gas into Al Aqsa mosque AFTER the ceasefire.

2. Okay, in that case, here's a list of lands that need to be returned to their rightful natives: -
- All of North America and South America needs to be returned.
- All of Africa needs to be left to Africans. All lands need to be returned.
- All of Australia, New Zealand and the surrounding Polynesian lands need to be returned.
- All Caribbean islands need to be returned. That means evicting both the slaves who made the land home AND the colonialist descendants.

3. Hint, Israel's Government and the Israelis people would never support the above because they'd lose their sweet sweet military funding.

4. The support for the Israeli Government's behaviour is dwindling day on day. And in large droves. And why wouldn't it.

1. Forcible transfers, forced evictions and demolitions
2. Discrimination
3. Unlawful killings and excessive use of force
4. Restricting freedom of movement
5. Arbitrary detention
6. Unfair trials in favour of settlers
7. Torture and other ill-treatment
8. Freedoms of expression and association
9. Refusing Rights of refugees, asylum-seekers and migrants

I do not really agree with you. They breed each other nowadays. But when Fatah was in power in Gaza, two state solution was nearing, why did the Hamas had to kill them and expect Israel to be ok with it ?

I think Hamas should do what it needs to be done to stop being seen as terrorists like the IRA did. They stepped down from the armed fight and went into politics.

[DingDongKing]

I do not really agree with you. They breed each other nowadays. But when Fatah was in power in Gaza, two state solution was nearing, why did the Hamas had to kill them and expect Israel to be ok with it ?

I think Hamas should do what it needs to be done to stop being seen as terrorists like the IRA did. They stepped down from the armed fight and went into politics.

Thanks for mentioning the IRA I forgot the three big returns of land that the Israeli Government needs to support
- Give Scotland back to the Scottish
- Give Northern Ireland back to the Irish
- Give Wales back to the Welsh

But we know that won't happen. You're right, though. Hamas should become a proper political party and then use political rhetoric to bomb their enemies...just like Netanyahu's Government. Then no one will complain about them doing what 'needs to be done', right?

[Draco-Onis]

SNIP

Everything is in that Wikipedia link I gave you not my fault you are at Trumpist levels of denial.

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I do not really agree with you. They breed each other nowadays. But when Fatah was in power in Gaza, two state solution was nearing, why did the Hamas had to kill them and expect Israel to be ok with it ?

I think Hamas should do what it needs to be done to stop being seen as terrorists like the IRA did. They stepped down from the armed fight and went into politics.

Hamas won an election because of US-Israeli meddling in the process, they were democratically elected to power. I am not justifying the violence afterwards but they still continue to have the support of their people just like the terrorist organization known as the Israeli government. They are two sides of the same coin feeding off each other using different means to justify what they do.

[Bodakane]

Is it ok to say that both sides have legit grievances and both sides have done bad things?

[Bodakane]

Democratically elected or not, they transpired to be a terrorist group.

Internationally recognised as terrorists by other international governments.

The people of Israel are nowhere near stooping to the low levels of shitness that Hamas have turned out to be.

If only one group survived, its plain to see the world would be a better place with the people of Israel belonging to it rather than Hamas and sunni Muslims.

You act like its only Hamas vs Israel. It's not. Its Hamas vs. Israel but with the Palestine people caught in the middle. Every time those people are caught in the middle, it fuels Hamas action which fuels Israel action.

[Shadowferal]

Democratically elected or not, they transpired to be a terrorist group. Internationally recognised as terrorists by other international governments.

Funny how international governments also see Israel in exactly the same way.

[DingDongKing]

Is it ok to say that both sides have legit grievances and both sides have done bad things?

Absolutely, but it's hard not to recognise the reality; that at present, one side is being oppressed by the other.

An Israeli historian by the name of Ilan Pappé put it perfectly in the context of Western society. I'll paraphrase.

'Imagine if you've a piece of land in Arizona or a mansion in England and the native American or descendant of the original family came to you and said, this land belongs to me from millennia past. I have a gun, I will shoot you if you don't leave and/or the courts are rigged in my favour'.

Ultimately, the Israeli Government has always pushed this notion of the Israeli people being 'masters of their own destiny'. But why is that destiny at the cost of someone else's? It's also frustrating because the British have a track record of doing what they did in Palestine. Same thing with India.

They drew the Radcliffe lines and then literally left the Indian and Pakistani families to duke it out.

Same situation that happened in 1948 happened a year before. Divide. Conquer. Fund one side over the other. Watch fireworks.

[starlord]

2. Okay, in that case, here's a list of lands that need to be returned to their rightful natives: -
- All of North America and South America needs to be returned.
- All of Africa needs to be left to Africans. All lands need to be returned.
- All of Australia, New Zealand and the surrounding Polynesian lands need to be returned.
- All Caribbean islands need to be returned. That means evicting both the slaves who made the land home AND the colonialist descendants.

well yes, yes they do. anyone who says otherwise is supporting invaders stealing land, genociding the inhabitants, and calling it their own.

[DingDongKing]

well yes, yes they do. anyone who says otherwise is supporting invaders stealing land, genociding the inhabitants, and calling it their own.

Basically many western Governments support what you've mentioned. They've all colonised/settled and are endorsing Israel's same methods today.

[starlord]

Basically many western Governments support what you've mentioned. They've all colonised/settled and are endorsing Israel's same methods today.

*shrug* i just find it funny that people are so quick to call out isreal with nary a peep about their own thefts of land.

"ahhh well its been X amount of years, what can you do..."

wonder what would happen if any native people were to try and... do something about it though.

[DingDongKing]

*shrug* i just find it funny that people are so quick to call out isreal with nary a peep about their own thefts of land.

"ahhh well its been X amount of years, what can you do..."

wonder what would happen if any native people were to try and... do something about it though.

That's kinda the point I was making? It's impossible to claim that the Israelis have right over land from 2500 years ago whilst simultaneously stealing all of America, New Zealand, Australia, Polynesian Islands etc etc. Easier solution is...don't subjugate Palestinians. OR, give every single family displaced over the last 80 years reparations. Use that awesome military funding received year on year, to support relocation.

[starlord]

That's kinda the point I was making? It's impossible to claim that the Israelis have right over land from 2500 years ago whilst simultaneously stealing all of America, New Zealand, Australia, Polynesian Islands etc etc. Easier solution is...don't subjugate Palestinians. OR, give every single family displaced over the last 80 years reparations. Use that awesome military funding received year on year, to support relocation.

hm well that supposes palestineans would willingly give up all that they have known and not fight for it either way.

its a sticky situation to be sure.

[DingDongKing]

hm well that supposes palestineans would willingly give up all that they have known and not fight for it either way.

its a sticky situation to be sure.

Yeah, obviously. But the point I'm making is that there's no give even, is there? It's just 'yep, this is our land, fuck off'.

It's out and out theft. And this has NOTHING to do with Judaism or Jewish ethnicity. It's a pure, out and out, political ideology.

It's like every other form of nationalism. It has nothing to do with religious or racial identity.

[starlord]

Yeah, obviously. But the point I'm making is that there's no give even, is there? It's just 'yep, this is our land, fuck off'.

It's out and out theft. And this has NOTHING to do with Judaism or Jewish ethnicity. It's a pure, out and out, political ideology.

It's like every other form of nationalism. It has nothing to do with religious or racial identity.

i'm not really sure its possible to entirely separate those in this conflict as the founding of the country was for the sake of those things.
speaking on behalf of my own ancestors history, i don't think its ever going to resolve until one side crushes the other sufficiently.
we would have never given up anything to invaders, no matter their peaceful intention if we could have still fought. and they're never going to give it back no matter how much they clutch pearls over "genocide".

i can empathize with both sides, and i wish maybe they could work it out.

[DingDongKing]

i'm not really sure its possible to entirely separate those in this conflict as the founding of the country was for the sake of those things.
speaking on behalf of my own ancestors history, i don't think its ever going to resolve until one side crushes the other sufficiently.
we would have never given up anything to invaders, no matter their peaceful intention if we could have still fought. and they're never going to give it back no matter how much they clutch pearls over "genocide".

i can empathize with both sides, and i wish maybe they could work it out.

We’re in the modern era. Land need not be obtained through conquest. Furthermore, the creation of Israel was a purely 20th Century idea. Zionism is a 20th century idea. It’s not rooted in the origins of Judaism at all. It’s a new concept and not a good one. Fully supporting a home for Israelis should not involve forcibly removing people from a land.