Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Xorzor]

There's only one timeless one and he's been irrelevant almost for a decade.


edit: Ok this whole "Timeless one will quake with fear" Where is that quote or is it fake?

Totally made up. I made it up for an expansion concept I've had for a while.

"She" is Azeroth, and when she stirs (ie begins to awaken), the timeless one, MUROZOND, will fear this, and begin his attempt to avert his inevitable fate.

Oh I forgot to mention. Murozond isn't dead. He pulled a Reverse Flash: what we beat in that dungeon was a time echo.

[Revamp Man]

Any bets on what will end up happening to Sylvanas now that we know about the split soul and additionally that the datamined achievements hint we are not actually killing her in the raid?

We spare her to help us save Anduin and she sacrifices herself to stop the jailer

[Sondrelk]

I guess the other prudent question is what will become of Arthas seeing as his return is inevitable.
He has not been seen since the Uther afterlives short, so at least he isn't being shoved in our face quite as much as Illidan was.

Personally I would have preferred if Arthas was revealed in a final maw patch for just that one patch, but seeing as we are already raiding the maw that might be difficult to pull off.


Seeing as Arthas already had a fitting end, what amount of him could safely be added without compromising either his story or Uther's story.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Seeing as Arthas already had a fitting end,

No I don't think just leaving him in the Maw is actually respecting his character.

[Raetary]

No I don't think just leaving him in the Maw is actually respecting his character.

Yeah no.

How about we don't encourage the redemption of genocidal maniacs?

[TheFirstOnes]

No I don't think just leaving him in the Maw is actually respecting his character.

I think leaving him in the Maw is a far greater fate for Arthas than with Sylvanas. Sylvanas, you at the very least have the excuse of the Jailer probably taking part of her soul and essentially deceiving her for his own ends.

Arthas did practically all of his evil ass shit on his own accord.

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We spare her to help us save Anduin and she sacrifices herself to stop the jailer

Or: She tries to stop the Jailer, dies doing it, and we with the Pantheons of Life and Death + the First Ones' power anchoring through Azeroth destroy him.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Arthas did practically all of his evil ass shit on his own accord.

Frostmourne: Hi I take souls


His soul was one the first ones that the weapon took. If Sylvanas is getting SOME form of redemption then Arthas deserves it more.

[TheFirstOnes]

Frostmourne: Hi I take souls


His soul was one the first ones that the weapon took. If Sylvanas is getting SOME form of redemption then Arthas deserves it more.

I'm sorry, but that's kinda not true. The Arthas novel specifically made it so that Arthas took total control over the LK, as he made Ner'Zhul's soul his bitch, as well as slay the last of his good spirit. Oh, and on top of that, Arthas literally took out his own heart so that he could never feel emotion again.

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Hell, the curse was only really a curse because of the Jailer's domination magics plus Ner'zhul's control. Both of which were, like I said before, negated by Arthas. Why else do you think Anduin got the straight up Avatar through mind control treatment?

[Nyel]

Pretty sure Arthas will help us freeing Anduin from the Jailer's influence. I'd prefer if Anduin stays evil, but I guess he'll be purged, cleansed or whatever - and Arthas will have to do with that as Anduin is basically Arthas 2.0.

[Sondrelk]

No I don't think just leaving him in the Maw is actually respecting his character.

Not leaving him in the maw. My personal hope for his new end is him being sent back to the Arbiter, leaving his fate unknown from that point. Maybe he is sent back to the maw, maybe he is sent to Revendreth, maybe he is sent somewhere else.

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I'm sorry, but that's kinda not true. The Arthas novel specifically made it so that Arthas took total control over the LK, as he made Ner'Zhul's soul his bitch, as well as slay the last of his good spirit. Oh, and on top of that, Arthas literally took out his own heart so that he could never feel emotion again.

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Hell, the curse was only really a curse because of the Jailer's domination magics plus Ner'zhul's control. Both of which were, like I said before, negated by Arthas. Why else do you think Anduin got the straight up Avatar through mind control treatment?

The most recent content retcons that. The Bolvar short story where he fights Sylvanas all but confirms that Arthas was controlled by the Jailer in some capacity, if at least with strong suggestions if not direct control like Anduin.

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Pretty sure Arthas will help us freeing Anduin from the Jailer's influence. I'd prefer if Anduin stays evil, but I guess he'll be purged, cleansed or whatever - and Arthas will have to do with that as Anduin is basically Arthas 2.0.

Ideally we see him as little as possible. Give him a reunion with Uther where he gives a short view in what he did and Uther forgives him like his arc requires, then have him in the final raid and leave him in Oribos to be judged by the arbiter properly.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The most recent content retcons that. The Bolvar short story where he fights Sylvanas all but confirms that Arthas was controlled by the Jailer in some capacity, if at least with strong suggestions if not direct control like Anduin.

I dare say even not recent. WCIII Arthas was told by a dreadlord about Frostmourne and his was the first soul it claimed. Arthas then goes onto say "Then I'll do without one."

Then comes Wrath where Frostmourne is shattered and he sees his father's spirit again and goes "IS IT OVER?"

That is not a greeting of a soul who knowingly did these things willfully(In the same way that Garrosh did, he died screaming) Arthas acting like he just woke up really tells you and while I can't say that was the intent of the writers during Wrath. I can't just ignore the implications of Frostmourne and now the Jailer being the maker of the Lich King concept. Also add the fictional character Arthas is sorta similar to(Cough another nerdy franchise). His story is tragic, he's not without sin but once he has Frostmourne in hand, whatever happened happened weather he liked it nor not.

That is why Arthas being in the Maw feels absolutely wrong as a character end, he already didn't get fair judgement(Thanks Devos). I dunno how I would use Arthas but I certainly am not wanting to condemn his fate like Gul'dan(Kil'Jaeden as well).


Short note: That wasn't exactly how I felt during Wrath but...opinions change.

[Tiradon]

So far with PTR, it seems like they targeting mid July release date. Anyone on the same boat regarding this? Earliest I can see is early July with an announcement of patch coming within 2-3 weeks making it 1 month before it hits?

[TheFirstOnes]

So far with PTR, it seems like they targeting mid July release date. Anyone on the same boat regarding this? Earliest I can see is early July with an announcement of patch coming within 2-3 weeks making it 1 month before it hits?

Where are you getting mid July? I’m saying Mid June.

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Not leaving him in the maw. My personal hope for his new end is him being sent back to the Arbiter, leaving his fate unknown from that point. Maybe he is sent back to the maw, maybe he is sent to Revendreth, maybe he is sent somewhere else.

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The most recent content retcons that. The Bolvar short story where he fights Sylvanas all but confirms that Arthas was controlled by the Jailer in some capacity, if at least with strong suggestions if not direct control like Anduin.

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Ideally we see him as little as possible. Give him a reunion with Uther where he gives a short view in what he did and Uther forgives him like his arc requires, then have him in the final raid and leave him in Oribos to be judged by the arbiter properly.

Pretty sure there were interviews that stated Arthas had control over everything at the end of the day, still. If Bolvar could resist the Jailer, so could Arthas. Hell, even the game kinda implies the past LK’s defied him, which includes Arthas.

[Raetary]

The LK was a failed shenanigan.
Arthas was not under the jailers control, none of the LKs were.
Zovaal even says so during the campaign.

[Nyel]

So far with PTR, it seems like they targeting mid July release date. Anyone on the same boat regarding this? Earliest I can see is early July with an announcement of patch coming within 2-3 weeks making it 1 month before it hits?

June 22 or later. Earlier if they want to piss off a lot of people.

[Tiradon]

June 22 or later. Earlier if they want to piss off a lot of people.

Got holidays mid June so that wouldn't be nice for me lol

[Sondrelk]

Where are you getting mid July? I’m saying Mid June.

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Pretty sure there were interviews that stated Arthas had control over everything at the end of the day, still. If Bolvar could resist the Jailer, so could Arthas. Hell, even the game kinda implies the past LK’s defied him, which includes Arthas.

If Arthas decided to go through with a plan to enslave the world instead of killing everyone or whatever else he wanted the LK to do, then that would by all accounts be resisting his influence.

Bolvar successfully resisted the Jailers control and yet talked constantly about how the Jailers influence always lingered, influencing him subtly in ways he could not always effectively combat.

More importantly there was essentially shown that blue eyes means the Jailer is assuming further control when Bolvar tapped into the Jailers power to defeat Dylvanas, knowing that he would no longer be able to effectively deter shelf from becoming a new Lich King completely.


In short, Arthas resisting the Jailer does not mean his actions were completely his own. If someone is pulled to a cliff edge by his leg then chopping off his leg to stop being killed does not mean the person dragging you towards the cliff isn't at fault for you chopping your own leg off.
Arthas might have resisted the Jailers direct control, but that doesn't mean he is entirely at fault, neither does it make him blameless. The Jailer is still the one that orchestrated Arthas' fall from grace at the very least, absolving Arthas' a tiny bit as a baseline.

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June 22 or later. Earlier if they want to piss off a lot of people.

I feel we are close to release now honestly, especially if we assume the raid won't open immediately.
I could see a mid to late June at this point without problem, even without it being around the exact average length we expect from a PTR.

[Nyel]

I feel we are close to release now honestly, especially if we assume the raid won't open immediately.
I could see a mid to late June at this point without problem, even without it being around the exact average length we expect from a PTR.

June 22 is the 10th week, that's why I see it as a likely release date. 3 weeks after TBC sounds okayish. Not good, but okay.

[Dracullus]

Blizz will be on summer game fest (10th June). Should we start unreasonable hype for 29th June 9.1 date reveal and cinematic (CGI of course)?

[Kiivar86]

Blizz will be on summer game fest (10th June). Should we start unreasonable hype for 29th June 9.1 date reveal and cinematic (CGI of course)?

That feels fairly safe to me.

Also maybe we'll find out what those two encrypted mounts are for/from, too.