Why are they bringing back conduit grinding in 9.1

[Mafic]

For me, the grind to upgrade weapons in Legion was just about perfect and felt on point even hunting the relics was fun.

Not sure if it was fun because it was the weapon being upgraded but at least for me it worked. Onwards to BfA and now SL I can’t tell which system is worse.

The necklace felt completely unrewarding and boring and now SL feels like…”just get over the damn quests and log for the week”.

Not sure if I got tired because I played wow since day #1 but lately I can’t even find the will to log. I am very sad about that and wish the game hadn’t taken these weird turns. Hoping for 9.1 now otherwise I might as well hang those daggers and say my bb (not that it would matter to anyone anyway).

The artifact weapon was an extension of player power but it also had a cosmetic appeal. Gearing in WoW and other MMORPGs rely on gear being stat sticks with increasing power and the visual.

What is the visual with a necklace? Nothing. What is the visual of covenants? I guess the signature covenant abilities but artifact weapons did it better honestly.

[Raven]

Do people like it? No, heavens no. Does it increase MAU's and increase player engagement? You betcha skippy.

Yes i do, i actually like to have to work for the stuff i want.

[Revamp Man]

The artifact weapon was an extension of player power but it also had a cosmetic appeal. Gearing in WoW and other MMORPGs rely on gear being stat sticks with increasing power and the visual.

What is the visual with a necklace? Nothing. What is the visual of covenants? I guess the signature covenant abilities but artifact weapons did it better honestly.

Did you really say the artifact weapons had more visuals than covenants

Title
Mounts
Pets
Mogs
Toys

Compared to a weapon look

The weapon abilities in some cases were barely noticeable compared to
Fleshcraft
Wild shape
Steward
Door of shadows

[Mafic]

Did you really say the artifact weapons had more visuals than covenants

Title
Mounts
Pets
Mogs
Toys

Compared to a weapon look

The weapon abilities in some cases were barely noticeable compared to
Fleshcraft
Wild shape
Steward
Door of shadows

That isn't a good comparison.

Artifact weapons + class hauls are all better than covenant concepts.

BlizZard tried to copy legion and failed.

[enigma77]

so that players have a new way to progress their character?

Why are they adding new gear to the new raid?

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Did you really say the artifact weapons had more visuals than covenants

Title
Mounts
Pets
Mogs
Toys

Compared to a weapon look

The weapon abilities in some cases were barely noticeable compared to
Fleshcraft
Wild shape
Steward
Door of shadows

Two important distinctions to make here. Firstly, the power component. Covenant "choice" is tied to power, heavily in some cases. This has prevented a lot of players from choosing the covenant that they might prefer naturally, so all these interesting visuals are wasted on players who don't care for them.

The second point is related: the Artifact brought a wide array of customisation from a visual standpoint, with 16 different variations with substantial variation to work towards. Even if I didn't like the base weapon, chances were pretty good I'd like at least one of the variants. The covenant on the other hand has a very particular aesthetic. While I can get all kinds of different soulshapes, they're all still distinctly Night Fae. I can't customise it to a radically different look like I could with my artifact. I can change the shape of course, but not the blue swirly fairy magic, which means if I don't want to be a NF, none of this customisation is compelling.

[Zyrinx]

That isn't a good comparison.

Artifact weapons + class hauls are all better than covenant concepts.

BlizZard tried to copy legion and failed.

Plus artifact mogs are still available today. I don't think the fleshcraft visual will have that longevity.

[Cosmic Janitor]

The artifact weapon was an extension of player power but it also had a cosmetic appeal. Gearing in WoW and other MMORPGs rely on gear being stat sticks with increasing power and the visual.

What is the visual with a necklace? Nothing. What is the visual of covenants? I guess the signature covenant abilities but artifact weapons did it better honestly.

I think one of the biggest contributors to legion feeling right for many was that the weapon stuff also matching your class. All the BfA systems felt alien to the respective classes, with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions. Firing yellow piss beams with my DK certainly wasn't my idea of the class' fantasy. SL has a similar issue in appeal, because even though some abilities are fun, there are only like 2-3 classes where the covenants are a proper match while the rest is just okay at best.

[Glorious Leader]

The artifact weapon was an extension of player power but it also had a cosmetic appeal. Gearing in WoW and other MMORPGs rely on gear being stat sticks with increasing power and the visual.

What is the visual with a necklace? Nothing. What is the visual of covenants? I guess the signature covenant abilities but artifact weapons did it better honestly.

The weapon was just more fleshed out in general. It tied to your to class hall and you could get a whole array of alternate appearance. The neck was entirely forgettable. The covenants are a step up from the neck no doubt but not by much.

[Venziir]

Did you really say the artifact weapons had more visuals than covenants

Title
Mounts
Pets
Mogs
Toys

Compared to a weapon look

The weapon abilities in some cases were barely noticeable compared to
Fleshcraft
Wild shape
Steward
Door of shadows

So erm... Order Halls had all of those too...

[Wavebossa]

Seeing as BiS enhancement conduit seemingly doesn't drop in the new raid (at least it didn't last I checked loot tables), I once again find myself in the situation that I'll need Ve'nari to upgrade it past 226 ilvl.

I'm hoping there'll at least be some catch-up to get conduits to 226 without grinding Stygia in 9.1 or you'll need to get all conduits to 226 with Stygia before you start wasting the new Maw currency on upgrading conduits.

I'm in the same boat unfortunately.

I love Shadowlands, probably alot more than the average player... but grinding for 226 conduits is actually my least favorite aspect about the game right now.

I stopped grinding because i'm assuming there will be a catchup of some sort... i hope

[LordVargK]

I'm in the same boat unfortunately.

I love Shadowlands, probably alot more than the average player... but grinding for 226 conduits is actually my least favorite aspect about the game right now.

I stopped grinding because i'm assuming there will be a catchup of some sort... i hope

The difference between a 200 conduit and 226 conduit is way smaller than between a 200 gear piece and a 226 gear piece. So you're not really missing out by not getting the best possible conduit right away (or at all).

[sam86]

Two important distinctions to make here. Firstly, the power component. Covenant "choice" is tied to power, heavily in some cases. This has prevented a lot of players from choosing the covenant that they might prefer naturally, so all these interesting visuals are wasted on players who don't care for them.

The second point is related: the Artifact brought a wide array of customisation from a visual standpoint, with 16 different variations with substantial variation to work towards. Even if I didn't like the base weapon, chances were pretty good I'd like at least one of the variants. The covenant on the other hand has a very particular aesthetic. While I can get all kinds of different soulshapes, they're all still distinctly Night Fae. I can't customise it to a radically different look like I could with my artifact. I can change the shape of course, but not the blue swirly fairy magic, which means if I don't want to be a NF, none of this customisation is compelling.

not to mention, artifacts are heavy lore basis
we have scepter of sargeras, an artifact that exist since wc2 days, that's a weapon we know exist since over 20 YEARS before we actually finally had it in wow
yes i'd put artifacts easily over entire covenants combined, some artifacts alone are more interesting than all 4 covenants like Ashbringer or Fel'malore (fire mage, sorry if i butcher the name)
Seriously artifacts are weapons a LOT of players dreamed about since years, i don't know a single wow player who even knew about exist of Kyrian prior to SL, including wow creator Christ Metzen himself, when wow just started, unlike every classic player and his mom knows Ashbringer

[tomten]

The difference between a 200 conduit and 226 conduit is way smaller than between a 200 gear piece and a 226 gear piece. So you're not really missing out by not getting the best possible conduit right away (or at all).

Such a retarded argument... No, 10%+ difference in effect is not small, its not negligible and in what world i'm i not missing out?

[LordVargK]

Such a retarded argument... No, 10%+ difference in effect is not small, its not negligible and in what world i'm i not missing out?

Obviously you're missing out on basic math. Because yes, a 10% difference in effect is like what? 0,1% of your damage? It's absolutely neglectable. Just look at some simulations of conduits on bloodmallet. Best I have seen is 1,4% difference from 200 to 226. And most conduits are way below that. So ranking up a conduit provides maybe 0.1% - 0.2% more damage. If you play optimally. With the best available gear.

It is neglectable and definitly not worth farming the maw or exploiting it like some idiots did at the start of SL.

[Accendor]

Do people enjoy it?

I want to look forward to a new raid not a terrible visages of grinding torghast and maw dailies or whatever the next maw is going to be called...

I need to know beyond raiders feeling roped into and glad players did anyone actively upgrade their conduits? I always felt your average player completely ignored this system didn't they?

Look mate, we are raidogging for the last 4 months now, at least they give us something to do.

[Asrialol]

That isn't a good comparison.

Artifact weapons + class hauls are all better than covenant concepts.

BlizZard tried to copy legion and failed.

Sounds a lot like your personal opinion instead of a fact.

[DazManianDevil]

Such a retarded argument... No, 10%+ difference in effect is not small, its not negligible and in what world i'm i not missing out?

Damn you play a class with conduit ilvl scaling? Man, my conduit going from 200-226ilvl netted me 8 whole dps!
That's a third the value of a socket. Big gains.

[Revamp Man]

That isn't a good comparison.

Artifact weapons + class hauls are all better than covenant concepts.

BlizZard tried to copy legion and failed.

Artifacts vs covenants
Covenant win all day in terms of the cosmetics and visuals which is what that comparison was but ok let’s go for class halls too

Class halls vs covenant sanctums
Edge to the class halls because they had fun little treats

Doesn’t change the fact that you had artifact abilities that weren’t always noticeable compared to the soupbinds where one summons a freakin megazord
Or the fact that you get unique pets and mounts before the .2 patch and the armor isn’t reused and dumbed down MoP rewards

[tomten]

Damn you play a class with conduit ilvl scaling? Man, my conduit going from 200-226ilvl netted me 8 whole dps!
That's a third the value of a socket. Big gains.

Yes. why even bother to have any conduit at all? Why even bother having gear? Why bother doing anything in this game cuz "No need", "to small", "insert whatever idiot statement"
Such a retarded argument im honestly shocked how anyone can think its a good one but here you are.