Thread: "Pay to win"

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  1. #481
    I am Murloc! crakerjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    explain to me how exactly it is start on same footage when both played for just 1 second, one is already 58 and other is lvl 1? how exactly are they same value?
    p2w is any advantage that real money gives, regardless u can achieve it later with invest lot of money or not, most p2w games btw do that: pay now to get service fast or just grind it slowly without paying

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    time, since ur time has no value for u, for me he is saving more time just because he payed more in a sub-based game already is ridiculous
    What unobtainable advantage does that translate to though? What can they do that you won't be able to do without buying the boost?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    For endgame focused players, the time they save levelling up is a very noticeable advantage.

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    I think you were being very witty when you typed this... but I would really consider editing this if I were you. Friendly advice
    But the key word to focus on, is it an unobtainable advantage? It's not. We're all gated through phases, so whether someone clears kara, gruuls and mags lair week 5 or week 15, does it really matter? This isn't a case of P2W because the player buying the boost isn't buying some unobtainable advantage. Their boost won't make them a better player, provide them with better gear or more talent points. Sure they save time, but time isn't an unobtainable advantage.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  2. #482
    Without boosts, literally no one would care about TBC Classic. Just the usual classic andy's care, who seem to be most of the people who are mad about boosts.

  3. #483
    Because If I am in a casual raiding guild. I still need to farm consumables. Professions. Dungeons. Rep.

    But oh. Someone quit or I need to play a different class? Or whatever.

    Guess I better put a month of time into just leveling. Not playing with my friends. Not doing anything I need to do to help us progress.

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by Potatowizard View Post

    Guess I better put a month of time into just leveling. Not playing with my friends. Not doing anything I need to do to help us progress.
    That is how the game was back then.

    You should adapt to the game, not the other way around.
    Last edited by Nalam the Venom; 2021-05-25 at 09:05 PM.

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  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    Real money should never be able to be used as any form of time-skip in any game.
    Thats debatable. Its a fair point, but I think Classic TBC should have come with a price tag instead and included the lvl 58 boost. Thered be a lot less whinning even though were really talking about semantics. If Classic TBC was $40 and came with a boost, would it still be pay to win?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    That is how the game was back then.

    You should adapt to the game, not the other way around.
    This is a silly argument. I could say as a consumer, you adapt to business practices, not the other way around. After all, its 2021 not 2006. Expecting 15yo business practices to stay the same, when the entire industry has shifted, is wishful thinking.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post

    This is a silly argument. I could say as a consumer, you adapt to business practices, not the other way around. After all, its 2021 not 2006. Expecting 15yo business practices to stay the same, when the entire industry has shifted, is wishful thinking.
    How about we don't try to monetise or "Business practise" a 15 year old re-release and just let it be how it was.

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  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    How about we don't try to monetise or "Business practise" a 15 year old re-release and just let it be how it was.
    You say "we" like you or I have any impact on it. Personally, Im not buying a boost, but thats not going to stop thousands of people from doing it, which in turn, essentially validates it as a business practice.

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by wombinator04 View Post
    Without boosts, literally no one would care about TBC Classic. Just the usual classic andy's care, who seem to be most of the people who are mad about boosts.
    I’d say this is bullshit. From the moment Classic dropped, there has been people asking for TBC. Many of whom didn’t play Vanilla classic.

    I have heard countless people say they wanted nothing to do with Vanilla, but would show up for TBC. It’s got nothing to do with a boost. The boost certainly helps bring people in, especially people on the fence, but you can’t say there wasn’t an audience for TBC before the boost was a thing.

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by Smash Adams View Post
    I’d say this is bullshit. From the moment Classic dropped, there has been people asking for TBC. Many of whom didn’t play Vanilla classic.

    I have heard countless people say they wanted nothing to do with Vanilla, but would show up for TBC. It’s got nothing to do with a boost. The boost certainly helps bring people in, especially people on the fence, but you can’t say there wasn’t an audience for TBC before the boost was a thing.
    But then logic begs, why force people play content they dont want anything to do with?

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    2 months? do you play 1-2 hours a day?
    My example was 2 hours a day yes. But if someone raids in retail, as an example, then that would be 2-3 days gone per week since most people log off and are too tired to play after already raiding for 3 hours after getting home from work. So on average maybe even less per day. It could potentially take an average retail player 5-6 months to get to level 58/60.

    I'm going to assume there's quite a bit of overlap of people that play both games and maybe are still semi-casual.

    So actually, the boost might save a casual TBC player multiple months of sub fees worth of leveling.
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2021-05-25 at 11:17 PM.

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    explain to me how exactly it is start on same footage when both played for just 1 second, one is already 58 and other is lvl 1? how exactly are they same value?
    p2w is any advantage that real money gives, regardless u can achieve it later with invest lot of money or not, most p2w games btw do that: pay now to get service fast or just grind it slowly without paying
    Exactly, and boosting to lvl 58 with useless gear and 0 professions isn't an advantage in an already established community. It's a way to catch up and play with your friends. If you SERIOUSLY think this is P2W looking at the game right now, you're so delusional and full of hate towards Blizzard that it's sad.

    If you entered a hobby where you build robots and compete with them, would you say it's "pay to win" if they let you buy a starter kit with a semi-functional robot while millions already have fully functional ones? No, not in a million years.

    Sigh @ people like you. Go cry a river somewhere.

  12. #492
    Paying real life money to gain an in-game advantage is the litteral definition of pay2win, regardless of how small or minor the advantage is. Skipping the lvling process up to level 58 certainly qualifies, thats 2-3 months for a casual player.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    Paying real life money to gain an in-game advantage is the litteral definition of pay2win, regardless of how small or minor the advantage is. Skipping the lvling process up to level 58 certainly qualifies, thats 2-3 months for a casual player.
    exactly this. if it was only for cosmetical reasons, it would not be p2w (like skins, unique mounts (without any speed- oder level-advantage)), but it is clearly not
    Quote Originally Posted by brandonf View Post
    Dear diary,
    This is Day 85 of farming primals for tailoring set. I can’t seem to understand how everyone around me magically has an epic flyer and I’m stuck here on my 60% flying mount losing all these tags. I checked the AH today to see if they have gone down from their 400g price per primal might but they still haven’t seem to budge. I guess I’ll try again tomorrow before I break down and buy gold off of a website that sells 10k gold for $30.

  14. #494
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    There is no such a thing as pay to win in any wow version, simple as that. Not even gdkp, when money is obviously coming from bots. That is just another topic so I will not touch it.

    Back on topic, the issue is that people get frustrated when someone else can do or figures something that they do not, getting some sort of advantage out of it. However, you have to admit that the game is integrally perfectly designed so that, realistically, everyone has the same chance to do the same things.

    It is a trend. Because now you have more shop stuff, people call it "pay to win", but it is not, and you have to be a bit of a dummy or plain close minded not to realize that such thing, does not exist.

    Even people buying boosts for mages to boost others for gold... how is that "pay to win", what do they won? a bit of gold? how is that a "win"? Did it also give the ma full Naxx clear?
    Even people who buy gold to do gdkp don´t win anything. Unless they buy their way through a massive boost to have gear good enough to get into a Naxx gdkp... And you can´t even call it p2w then, because the gold was not obtained through the game design.

  15. #495
    The Lightbringer gutnbrg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    Paying real life money to gain an in-game advantage is the litteral definition of pay2win, regardless of how small or minor the advantage is. Skipping the lvling process up to level 58 certainly qualifies, thats 2-3 months for a casual player.
    i mean its this and no1 can deny it....

  16. #496
    I feel this issue will always be around

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    Paying real life money to gain an in-game advantage is the litteral definition of pay2win, regardless of how small or minor the advantage is. Skipping the lvling process up to level 58 certainly qualifies, thats 2-3 months for a casual player.
    Sure, but who do you get an advantage over? Its not 60s in Naxx gear. You dont even have an advantage over 58s in dungeon gear. And how much is 2-3 months of subscription? Pretty comparable to a boost, isnt it?

    At the end of the day, the boost gets players closer to their friends to be able to play TBC together and its not that awful of a concept.
    Last edited by Daymanmb; 2021-05-26 at 06:42 AM.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    2 months? do you play 1-2 hours a day?
    2 hours a day each day - is very long gaming sessions for normal fully functioning adoult.

    its 14 hours a week -> 56 hours a month - its basicly 7 full work days.

  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Sure, but who do you get an advantage over? Its not 60s in Naxx gear. You dont even have an advantage over 58s in dungeon gear. And how much is 2-3 months of subscription? Pretty comparable to a boost, isnt it?
    you would play the game anyway, so you can´t take that 2-3 months of subscription into account i get the idea, but in my eyes it is not correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by brandonf View Post
    Dear diary,
    This is Day 85 of farming primals for tailoring set. I can’t seem to understand how everyone around me magically has an epic flyer and I’m stuck here on my 60% flying mount losing all these tags. I checked the AH today to see if they have gone down from their 400g price per primal might but they still haven’t seem to budge. I guess I’ll try again tomorrow before I break down and buy gold off of a website that sells 10k gold for $30.

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    That is how the game was back then.

    You should adapt to the game, not the other way around.
    its 2021 not 2005. we are all 30+ not 10+ .

    if game wants to survive it need to adapt to us.

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