"Pay to win"

[Jotaux]

I hope the wow token comes to classic.

[Ladey Gags]

I love these kinds of replies. They make me quite happy. This person hates the capitalist greed that microtransactions supposedly represent ... but is typing to a forum, using the internet, from a phone or a computer, which only exists because of guess what... capitalism.....

Besides the idiocy of the poster, which we all can laugh at, their point isn't valid on any level. As many folks have said, boosts are fine, if you don't have the time. Most adults, who make more than minimum wage, are perfectly okay with paying $50 to boost a character to a level if it saves them weeks or months of time. I see zero issues with these things. If they make my life easier and allow me to hang with my friends for a one-time fee.. Why would I be mad about that? Work one hour to pay for a boost, or play the game for 50-100 hours to reach the same results? Uhhhh here is your $50 Blizzard, and thank you for making this an option.

AHHURRRDUUUUR MUHH WHATABOUTISMMMMMZZZZ

Give me a break

[starstationprofm]

Thanks for sharing your feelings. In your mind, what are you winning?

Time and effort

[sam86]

What unobtainable advantage does that translate to though? What can they do that you won't be able to do without buying the boost?

time, yes that's time that u have to invest to lvl, he already 'bought' it with money
why exactly time has no value to many ppl?

Without boosts, literally no one would care about TBC Classic. Just the usual classic andy's care, who seem to be most of the people who are mad about boosts.

TBC is already on weaker ground than classic because it exists on retail, u can visit it now, reduce ur lvl to it and even play it, u get some timewalk to hit that nostalgia itch u have once a while too

I’d say this is bullshit. From the moment Classic dropped, there has been people asking for TBC. Many of whom didn’t play Vanilla classic.

again no, u can find in a thread here somewhere many ppl considered best lore/emotional quests were from classic era, specially EPL, quests that no longer exist in wow with cata revamp
the only thing TBC offer that retail doesn't is the far better superior talent system and actually having abilities without fear of inflation, anything else u can do in retail, including reduce ur lvl to raid TBC as current content, heck u can argue that retail has many things better in cosmetics field like actually keeping mounts and pets instead of separate bag slot
And bags, the only thing i don't miss at all from older wow versions is smaller bags

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Who the fuck cares if it falls under your semantic definition of pay to win? It’s the fucking principle. Why the FUCK are you defending ANY amount of microtransaction practices? PLEASE tell me WHY you defend capitalist GREED? Do you not want video games to be what they used to be? Do you WANT to be fucked in the ass by greedy Bobby koticks? What the fuck?

It’s like I’ve woken up in a fucking alternate reality where people are actually defending microtransactions. What the hell happened to you people?

because that's reality now, in wrath when many complained how a mount is for money in an already sub-based game AND u buy for expansions too, they made a comic about sparkle pony (which literally fit drop from Algalon, who had no mount as end-raid boss for first time) silencing 'haters'
now we have tokens and cosmetics and pets and toys and so much bullshit it fucking disgusts me

[agentsi]

AHHURRRDUUUUR MUHH WHATABOUTISMMMMMZZZZ

Give me a break

There is no whataboutism to it. You are a sad triggered little troll, who can't comprehend basic logic. You complain about things(capitalism) while using the things you just complained about. You literally contradicted yourself, immediately. It's okay to be an asshole and scream about sodomy towards others, most people can live with that. But don't go to a forum just to cry, complain acting like the personal truth you falsely know is objective to the rest of the world, because it's not.

In short, stop being a fucking hypocrite.

[crakerjack]

Being level 58 and decked out in leveling greens isn't an unobtainable advantage. There's ample amounts of people with full t3 and legendary weapons. A boosted character is already at a disadvantage compared to someone who is 60 and in full raid gear. The principle of P2W is that the person buying a service is obtaining an advantage that is either gated behind a significantly long grind or is unavailable unless purchased with real money. No one is going to argue with you that buying the boost doesn't save time, but time isn't an unobtainable advantage. Someone who boosts a character won't have an advantage over anyone else who is already 58+.

Examples of P2W is that buying a bundle/kit in a game gives you higher stats than everyone else who didn't spend money on that bundle/kit. Being able to buy a weapon that has a higher ilvl than anything currently available in game. Otherwise it isn't P2W simply because what they're buying isn't an unobtainable advantage over others.

[Delever]

There is no whataboutism to it. You are a sad triggered little troll, who can't comprehend basic logic. You complain about things(capitalism) while using the things you just complained about. You literally contradicted yourself, immediately. It's okay to be an asshole and scream about sodomy towards others, most people can live with that. But don't go to a forum just to cry, complain acting like the personal truth you falsely know is objective to the rest of the world, because it's not.

In short, stop being a fucking hypocrite.

Lets now shift this into a normal discussion. There is a difference between the capitalist system and capitalistic greed. To reduce what the poster is saying to basically "you use products created by capitalism and therefore do not have the right to complain when companies turns to greedy practices" is a fallacy. This is not hypocrisy. Blizzard saw profit in adding a boost to a version of the game that never included it. The boost is not there to help the "what about the guy working 10+ hours" type of guy. Its there to pray on people with limited patience and grab some quick cash. Most people can afford it its not the issue. Its the notion behind this practice that is. When people were screaming years ago that these practices in sub based mmos were tests to see how consumers would react and that they would slowly start becoming the norm people were calling them madmen and doomsayers. "Oh its just a helmet on the cash shop chill out". Now its a level boost, some of the coolest mounts in the game, exclusive bonuses past the collectors edition, indirect gold buying and the list goes on and on and on...

[Prag]

I love these kinds of replies. They make me quite happy. This person hates the capitalist greed that microtransactions supposedly represent ... but is typing to a forum, using the internet, from a phone or a computer, which only exists because of guess what... capitalism.....

Besides the idiocy of the poster, which we all can laugh at, their point isn't valid on any level. As many folks have said, boosts are fine, if you don't have the time. Most adults, who make more than minimum wage, are perfectly okay with paying $50 to boost a character to a level if it saves them weeks or months of time. I see zero issues with these things. If they make my life easier and allow me to hang with my friends for a one-time fee.. Why would I be mad about that? Work one hour to pay for a boost, or play the game for 50-100 hours to reach the same results? Uhhhh here is your $50 Blizzard, and thank you for making this an option.

Something like 50% of Americans don’t have access to $600 cash for an emergency. So, $50 is apparently a lot based on people’s spending habits and disposable income.

Also, the internet wasn’t born out of capitalism. Capitalism is more a limiting factor of access than an enabler. The pandemic showed us just how many households don’t even have internet capable of video school sessions.

[Beefhammer]

Who the fuck cares if it falls under your semantic definition of pay to win? It’s the fucking principle. Why the FUCK are you defending ANY amount of microtransaction practices? PLEASE tell me WHY you defend capitalist GREED? Do you not want video games to be what they used to be? Do you WANT to be fucked in the ass by greedy Bobby koticks? What the fuck?

It’s like I’ve woken up in a fucking alternate reality where people are actually defending microtransactions. What the hell happened to you people?

So if I have disposable income at my hands and don't want to waste the time it takes to level to 58, I'm getting fucked in the ass by choosing not to waste hours upon hours grinding exp? You sure have a weird definition of being taken advantage of. As if players have o choice and have to spend their money on MTX that are purely optional.

[Tanduita]

You can and that is very simple.
Without boost to play with your friends -> 3 months sub + continuous sub
With boost -> Continuous sub.

Price for the bus ticket will be less if you buy if from mid point rather than the start. How does that make no sense? "You would still be paying for the bus ticket" yes, but half of it only.

so you wait 3 months until you start playing? [X] doubt. you will play anyway, so you do not save any money. it is "just" time, i totally agree, but moneywise it won´t save you a bit, it will just cost

[Super Kami Dende]

so you wait 3 months until you start playing? [X] doubt. you will play anyway, so you do not save any money. it is "just" time, i totally agree, but moneywise it won´t save you a bit, it will just cost

I justify most of my costs based on my Wage. A boost is less than 2hrs of my work hours. levelling to 60 will take up 60+hours of my time. The boost saves me about 58hrs of my time.

[Grimreaper]

Being level 58 and decked out in leveling greens isn't an unobtainable advantage. There's ample amounts of people with full t3 and legendary weapons. A boosted character is already at a disadvantage compared to someone who is 60 and in full raid gear. The principle of P2W is that the person buying a service is obtaining an advantage that is either gated behind a significantly long grind or is unavailable unless purchased with real money. No one is going to argue with you that buying the boost doesn't save time, but time isn't an unobtainable advantage. Someone who boosts a character won't have an advantage over anyone else who is already 58+.

Examples of P2W is that buying a bundle/kit in a game gives you higher stats than everyone else who didn't spend money on that bundle/kit. Being able to buy a weapon that has a higher ilvl than anything currently available in game. Otherwise it isn't P2W simply because what they're buying isn't an unobtainable advantage over others.

I would deffo consider 2-3 months of play time "a significantly long grind". Oh you can play 15+ hours a day? Good for you, still doesnt change the fact that most people dont.

[anon5123]

It’s supposed to be a nostalgia trip for the people who feel like re-Living it.

There is no need for ”Survive”

Either you play it or you don’t, No need to change any thing.

If you can not play the game in todays age, Just don’t?

It really should not need to adapt to you.

Look at how "nochanges" ended up playing out over the past 1.5 years

lol

[Farora]

The paid boost and mount have a big effect on the overal game. As a player 15 years ago you would only see people that earned their level 70 and you would only see mounts that were earned. It's the way it should be in an MMORPG. But eh, modern Blizzard doesn't give a shit.

[Tanduita]

I justify most of my costs based on my Wage. A boost is less than 2hrs of my work hours. levelling to 60 will take up 60+hours of my time. The boost saves me about 58hrs of my time.

if the game gives you that little fun and feels like work for you, you should definetely quit

[Nalam the Venom]

if the game gives you that little fun and feels like work for you, you should definetely quit

I can say for certain that i had more fun on the Boosted Dwarf paladin while tanking Scholomance & Stratholme than the 23 levels i managed on the blood elf warlock.

Having access to full talents instantly is just more enjoyable.

Now i'd be in favor of a level 30 or 40 boost as well, it's just the 1-30 that's such an absolute slog.

[Clawsout]

Fuck id pay double at this point to have my pally boosted to 58 instantly cuz fuck money and leveling the journey can lick my taint

[arkanon]

I can say for certain that i had more fun on the Boosted Dwarf paladin while tanking Scholomance & Stratholme than the 23 levels i managed on the blood elf warlock.

Having access to full talents instantly is just more enjoyable.

Now i'd be in favor of a level 30 or 40 boost as well, it's just the 1-30 that's such an absolute slog.

Im sure you are aware of this, but yes, the first 30 (yes, THIRTY) levels are pretty fucking terrible on a warlock. Once you cross that barrier things get much smoother. Warlock was the LAST class I leveled every expansion until about.......WoD?

I think that was one of the only modern philosophies with no real downside - the improvements to the EARLY leveling experience by allowing specs / classes to play closer to intended much earlier on.

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it's one per account. So they have to buy an account, buy the game time, then buy the boost.

What do you mean "buy an account"?

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Look at how "nochanges" ended up playing out over the past 1.5 years

lol

I genuinely thought #NoChanges was a joke - just made up by a bunch of trolls to wind up the "purists". Turns out a handful of people genuinely believed in it.

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The paid boost and mount have a big effect on the overal game. As a player 15 years ago you would only see people that earned their level 70 and you would only see mounts that were earned. It's the way it should be in an MMORPG. But eh, modern Blizzard doesn't give a shit.

Who are you to say what an mmorpg should and should not be? The overwhelming majority of mmorpgs have no sub, why didnt you mention that? The overwhelming majority of mmorpgs have some form of "convenience" purchases that allow you to level much, much faster, why didnt you mention that? The overwhelming majority of mmorpgs have mounts that can be purchased with real money, why didnt you mention that?

I think people need to realise that Blizzard payment model and systems are now the exception, not the rule, and have been for a long, long time.

[Niwes]

Calm your tits.

The point I'm making is that everyone is crying about a single one-time character boost being "PAY TO WIN REEEEE".....leveling to 58 is not "winning" WoW. It literally just lets you skip ~2 weeks of leveling for ONE character. And people are acting like it's the end of the world (of warcraft) and TBC is ruined because of it.

You're not gaining any special advantage over other players. You're just paying to skip half the leveling process for one(1) character. This is not "winning". This is not "pay2win".

Even if Blizzard didn't offer this, people would still be boosting characters, just by paying for dungeon boosts instead of paying Blizzard, so nothing really changed.

i completely agree if you replace 2 weeks with 2 months. lol, in NO way as a normal adult human, you level a classic char from 0-58 in 2 weeks. thats what many ppl complain about. and tbh, i see more ppl complaining about the short pre patch timespan, than i see ppl complaining about the boost.

for me personally Blizz did exactly the wrong things to get my money. i dont give that greedy bastards money for a boost. i have no problem with the boost in general and have same opinion as OP. but i simply do not give them money. i just dont wanna support that type of company Blizz became. the second reason is this fucked up childish music video. i had a tiny bit of interesst to go back to BC (was a good time in my long wow history). but i simply have not the time to level 2-3 months nor i give them money. its just not worth for me, because i really saw everything of TBC. and in 2-3 months the realms are all empty anyway. so, its fine.

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time, yes that's time that u have to invest to lvl, he already 'bought' it with money
why exactly time has no value to many ppl?

TBC is already on weaker ground than classic because it exists on retail, u can visit it now, reduce ur lvl to it and even play it, u get some timewalk to hit that nostalgia itch u have once a while too

again no, u can find in a thread here somewhere many ppl considered best lore/emotional quests were from classic era, specially EPL, quests that no longer exist in wow with cata revamp
the only thing TBC offer that retail doesn't is the far better superior talent system and actually having abilities without fear of inflation, anything else u can do in retail, including reduce ur lvl to raid TBC as current content, heck u can argue that retail has many things better in cosmetics field like actually keeping mounts and pets instead of separate bag slot
And bags, the only thing i don't miss at all from older wow versions is smaller bags

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because that's reality now, in wrath when many complained how a mount is for money in an already sub-based game AND u buy for expansions too, they made a comic about sparkle pony (which literally fit drop from Algalon, who had no mount as end-raid boss for first time) silencing 'haters'
now we have tokens and cosmetics and pets and toys and so much bullshit it fucking disgusts me

this. so much.

[Azerate]

"Pay to win'ers" are almost like a religious cult these days. Any kind of in-game purchase for them, no matter how insignificant is "pay to win" for these people. I don't even know anymore whether this is caused by living under a rock, a fantasy land of some sort or by being incentivized to take join these kinds of opinions by influencers. I even regularly see people claiming that cash shop in wow is "extensive" and how it "started with 1 mount and now the cash shop is SO massive" bro if wow's cash shop is massive to you you probably haven't seen other games and how they're monetized in years.

A lot of people just need a reality check and they need to understand that in 2021 games have additional monetization and on-line games specifically have real currency shops within. You'd have to be crazy to release a game in 2021 and not add some additional forms of money making into them. By doing that, you'd be directly telling your competitors "go ahead, we are letting you earn more money" - and that would be idiotic in the capitalist world the rich have built for themselves.

As for the boost in tbc specifically...people wanna play tbc, they don't wanna level through dead content for weeks. I don't get how this is so hard to understand. Some people say that the game starts at level 1 and it makes sense to level...sure, the original main-line wow did. Now we are dealing with classic expansions which are released for nostalgia and flavor mostly. There will be different groups who only want to play a specific one. It makes 0 sense to force these people to play through all of the content when they just want to experience expansion X.