Capitol Insurrection / rebellion thread

[uuuhname]

I'm not suggesting that the insurrection was a small thing. It wasn't, and anyone part of the crowd that broke into the Capitol should be facing five years or more in prison, just for their participation, with higher sentences for those who did more than just follow along.

I'm speaking to the likes of politicians whose only participation was Tweeting support or assistance. Lauren Boebert should be dead simple to convict, as she was literally tweeting the location of the Speaker as people were breaking in to try and kill her. But Marjorie Taylor Greene, for instance, Tweeted that the rioters were Democrats; that's an attempt to deflect blame from the actual criminals, and that qualifies as "aid and comfort". So she should be convicted too.

I just feel that 5+ years in prison over a tweet is perhaps a bit much. Removing them from office and barring them from national politics forever is fine, in that case. Particularly since that's a standard that can be applied to, like, a massive chunk of Republican representation. A lot.

true, very true, fuck just with them kicking Trump off of social media has done a lot to push him out of the public conscious.

[Endus]

The issue here is the courts have yet to charge ANYONE with insurrection and seem unlikely to. Makes it hard to charge her for it.

That I put down to rank cowardice on the part of the legal system.

"Oh, we can't charge them with the crime they obviously committed! Clearly, those participating in the "January 6 Insurrection" were not actually committing insurrection!"

The only hope I have is that the DOJ is taking a "lock them in for the easy crimes, and then nail the worst of them with Insurrection, and then fast-track adding those charges to everyone else remotely associated in a grand sweep" approach.

Like, you folks down south have a ton of prisons. Legalize weed, nullify the sentences of anyone who's in there on weed charges and release them, and fill the spots with insurrectionists. Easy.

[Ripster42]

The issue here is the courts have yet to charge ANYONE with insurrection and seem unlikely to. Makes it hard to charge her for it.

What makes you say this? The FBI is still investigating. They've charged a lot of people involved with lower level crimes to get them in the system, but they haven't ended their investigation, and the investigation isn't solely directed at finding new perpetrators. I suspect everyone there who was in "the stack" is going to end up with a lot more serious charges than they've got now. Since they actually in violence, they're not just involved in sedition, but actual insurrection. They've already charged one guy who wasn't even there with conspiracy, which would mean that people who are only involved in planning could be charged similarly.

[Ripster42]

They prioritize the first amendment or they’d be charging EVERY protest that becomes violent as insurrection.

Only if it intends to overthrow the government. Just because you're violent doesn't mean you're trying to overthrow the gov't. Being violent to force congress to put someone other than who was elected in the presidency is trying to overthrow the gov't.

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The entire history of our legal system.

The one that does this regularly? Charges smaller crimes to hold people while it continues investigating?

[Ripster42]

The one that only brings insurrection charges in exceedingly rare circumstances due to prioritizing the first amendment. They’ll get charges like what we’ve seen brought, but insurrection isn’t something anyone should count on.

When was the last time you've seen people kill a police officer on the capital steps while trying to overturn the results of an election? Would you say it's an exceedingly rare occurrence? I don't think we should count on it either, but I'd say the odds are a lot better than "unlikely."

[Ripster42]

You mean the attack that resulted in assault charges and not murder?

Focus on the other half: "...while trying to overturn the results of an election?" Kidnapping is also always a violent crime. So is devising a plan to gas people in tunnels and trying to carry it out. Engaging in violence while trying to overthrow a gov't isn't a common thing, so saying it's rare because it's rarely charged isn't really helpful unless you narrow your comparison down to like instances. Of which there are very few. I only know of 4. One of those was the civil war, so even that's not really comparable because of the scale. Whisky, Fries, and Wilmington are the other 3. 2 of those led to treason and rebellion charges, the other was successful. If you've got any others, let me know, but from those 4, the history is that unsuccessful insurrection is charged as such unless it would require jailing 1/2 the nation.

[tehdang]

Could we do better? Absolutely.

Are we actually better? No. No we are not.

After 8 years of Dubya Bush and watching that degenerate into Trumpism with the pathetic shitshow that the were the Obama years in between, we are absolutely not better than that.

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Just for sake of clarity.

Are you suggesting 1/6 wasn't a purely Republican affair provoked and cheered on the likes of Trump, Hawley, Cruz etc?

Are you suggesting there are 2 sides to this?

My post suggests nothing of the kind. Are you suggesting any current or future investigation start by assuming the results of the investigation?

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one party has members of it that should be put on trial and dragged to a gallows for their participation in trying to overthrow our democracy. this is a fact and anyone saying otherwise are equally suspect.

Put on trial and dragged to the gallows? Aren’t you being a little medieval here?

I’m well aware there are criminal trials ongoing, as well.

[Mihalik]

My post suggests nothing of the kind. Are you suggesting any current or future investigation start by assuming the results of the investigation?

There's nothing to investigate. We know who did it and who instigated it.

The purpose of the commission would have been to understand how the security failures occurred.

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Put on trial and dragged to the gallows? Aren’t you being a little medieval here?

Fake outrage much? The mob literally built gallows for Pence.

[uuuhname]

Put on trial and dragged to the gallows? Aren’t you being a little medieval here?

it's a couple steps back from putting the then sitting vice president's head on a stick, don't you think?

[uuuhname]

Tbf, they were ALSO trying to drag him to the gallows.

him and every politician they could get their hands on that aren't Bobert or Greene for some reason.

[Endus]

My post suggests nothing of the kind. Are you suggesting any current or future investigation start by assuming the results of the investigation?

Any investigation into potential wrongdoing has to assume that said wrongdoing may have occurred. The purpose of the investigation is to secure the evidence to prove it, in court.

If you don't have that presumption of wrongdoing, you wouldn't be calling for an investigation in the first place.

[cubby]

The GOP voting against the Insurrection Commission (excuse me, the Jan 6 commission), is pushing people towards removing the Filibuster.

[xanzul]

Agreed. I spent a serious half hour looking at places to move to in Canada. I figure @Endus can be my sponsor.



She isn't, but her (D) gives us Senate control. That feature can't be ignored, regardless of her personal issues.

Which means fuck all if she won't vote to eliminate the filibuster.

I really fucking hate to say this but our only way out of this mess is by arresting the traitorous fucks in Congress and replace them with non-criminals. Otherwise we lose the Senate in 2022 and likely the House in 2024 not to mention the White House. No amount of voting or campaigning is going to fix this.

I'm nearly at a point where I think the best option is to just burn it all down Constitution and everything that goes with it. It no longer protects us and honestly never has. It has always protected the rich and powerful as it was designed to do.

We have literal elected officials opening calling for executions of those they disagree with and the GQP base is more than willing to do it and have and will continue to do so. Qanon is literally a religion now and these people want to make it the national religion and their numbers are growing at a frightening rate.

So yes I think a lot of people should consider getting the fuck out before the mass executions start and they absolutely will if we stay on our current course.

[Xeones]

I don't understand how the traitors can even begin to rationalize voting against it.

[Captain N]

I don't understand how the traitors can even begin to rationalize voting against it.

Easy. If there's a full on investigation into what happened on January 6th there's a really good chance that a lot of Republicans are going to be shown as enabling the simple "tourist visit". I mean we've already seen a few of them indirectly support it, and a few that outright supported it.

[Fugus]

Easy. If there's a full on investigation into what happened on January 6th there's a really good chance that a lot of Republicans are going to be shown as enabling the simple "tourist visit". I mean we've already seen a few of them indirectly support it, and a few that outright supported it.

Sadly, I actually talked a few few a week after it happened, they actually tried to justify it as them "Fighting for democracy from a stolen election" I pointed out to them that there was zero evidence of this and if they had any, there were over 30 court cases of Trumps where they were all thrown out due to no evidence that they could have submitted it.

Their response was, "Do you really think THAT many people came out to vote for Biden?" I responded, that I don't think that many would come out to vote FOR Biden but I would completely believe that many coming out to vote AGAINST Trump. Then they tried to deflect to the Black Lives Matter protest as an example at which point I couldn't help it but I laughed and pointed out that over 97% of BLM protests have been peaceful and out of the violent ones we even found a white supremacist in one of them doing stuff because they figured BLM could get the blame for.

I recall I actually kinda joked about it with, "Sure the terrorists tried to attack our elections and kill our leaders, but that's nothing compared to all the damaged trashcans from the BLM protests, WILL SOMEONE THINK OF THE TRASHCANS." I think they realized just how far gone they sounded when I made that joke and kinda went silent.

[postman1782]

I don't understand how the traitors can even begin to rationalize voting against it.

Because they know that if they investigate it, they know there will be a bunch of Congressmen and women arrested for treason. There is evidence that Qbert, MTG, Gosar, and others gave insurrectionists "tours" on January 5th, especially since there are some that have been arrested for giving in depth directions to other insurrectionists from things that are only gotten from tours. And since they haven't had tours for a long time, it wouldn't surprise me to see some of these dumb bitches going to jail.

[Captain N]

Sadly, I actually talked a few few a week after it happened, they actually tried to justify it as them "Fighting for democracy from a stolen election" I pointed out to them that there was zero evidence of this and if they had any, there were over 30 court cases of Trumps where they were all thrown out due to no evidence that they could have submitted it.

Their response was, "Do you really think THAT many people came out to vote for Biden?" I responded, that I don't think that many would come out to vote FOR Biden but I would completely believe that many coming out to vote AGAINST Trump. Then they tried to deflect to the Black Lives Matter protest as an example at which point I couldn't help it but I laughed and pointed out that over 97% of BLM protests have been peaceful and out of the violent ones we even found a white supremacist in one of them doing stuff because they figured BLM could get the blame for.

I recall I actually kinda joked about it with, "Sure the terrorists tried to attack our elections and kill our leaders, but that's nothing compared to all the damaged trashcans from the BLM protests, WILL SOMEONE THINK OF THE TRASHCANS." I think they realized just how far gone they sounded when I made that joke and kinda went silent.

It's honestly terrifying just how far members of Cult 45 went down the rabbit hole to defend that POS. However I was more talking about Republican politicians like Hawley who gave them a fist pump. Like Andrew Clyde who dismissed what happened as just an "undisciplined mob". Then there's Paul Gosar who thinks its wrong for the American populace to help federal law enforcement officers to find the folks who were caught committing crimes inside the Capitol building live on video. The fact those kind of shit birds are going to downplay a very real threat that cost people their lives or were seriously injured is beyond disgusting. They enable it....and I'm willing to bet money that many of them had something to do with the planning of the attack. Remember the people in that mob had t-shirts made about an upcoming Civil War to start on that date.

[Fugus]

It's honestly terrifying just how far members of Cult 45 went down the rabbit hole to defend that POS. However I was more talking about Republican politicians like Hawley who gave them a fist pump. Like Andrew Clyde who dismissed what happened as just an "undisciplined mob". Then there's Paul Gosar who thinks its wrong for the American populace to help federal law enforcement officers to find the folks who were caught committing crimes inside the Capitol building live on video. The fact those kind of shit birds are going to downplay a very real threat that cost people their lives or were seriously injured is beyond disgusting. They enable it....and I'm willing to bet money that many of them had something to do with the planning of the attack. Remember the people in that mob had t-shirts made about an upcoming Civil War to start on that date.

With what the voters think, they are completely uniformed and go out of their way to remain that way. Already mentioned a few times how bad my brother in law is had how on Christmas he tried to tell me that I and the Democrats were a bunch of devil worshipers who would burn in hell as his way to not admit to the double standard he was trying to hold when HE was the one who tried to bring up politics and then threatened me before others told him to leave.

When it comes to the politicians themselves, they KNOW better than that, they know exactly what they are doing, it's their job and they refuse to admit the facts after they learn them because them keep their jobs requires them to NOT know the facts or admit they know them after they learn them. They don't want to look into it officially because they know what their base is and they don't care about the long term impacts of this nation so long as they get what they want now. That's the futures problem. Look at their double standard when it came to impeachments, the courts, and everything else.

They KNOW reality, they don't care about it because admitting it costs them power. These are people who will gladly burn this nation to the ground if it means they are the ones ruling over the ashes.

[Dontrike]

I don't understand how the traitors can even begin to rationalize voting against it.

Because the more investigations into it the likelier many of their members go to jail or voted out and with less members in the MAGA army they won't be able to strip every voting right they can to stay in power.