Would you want an united Troll Empire in return for the united Seven Human Kingdoms?

[Shadowtwili]

What? That makes no sense, I am confused.

[Wolfrick]

which zone exactly? horde ex-zones like Arathi Highlands and Hillsbrad are now contested, the most iconic horde zone Barrens is now contested, horde gain zero new land while alliance took many, Stonetalon mountains is back to neutral, Ashenvale is alliance, Feralas is alliance, Desolace is unknown (was horde with how they get the centaur in that zone in end, i'd say still horde for once), and so on
Horde don't hold any new zone from cata map, they just lost many zones
So again, what lore u talking about?

Hello there friend.

Want to inform you in a kind and helpful maner.

1st, its not your fault... Blizzard is terrrible in putting very huge and important info into their Lore books...
(If you ask me they can make books, its gives us more Lore... but put that Lore also in the game... so people can choose where to get it)

2nd, Most of the Lore that was about What happens in Stonetalon, North and south barrens and Dustwallow marsh... happend in a Book...
(The Alliance over extended like crazy so the Horde pushed all the alliance forces back to Theramor... where Garrosh Nuked the city)

PS: yeah... its really bad that all that fun stuff... was all put in a book... would have been amazing to have a Campagn in game that would show us the great push back...

3rd, For the horde to push into Ashenvale... and up threw Darkshore... in the prepatch of BFA... does show us that the south of Kalimdor had to have been secure or that move would have been suicide..
(Again its hard for people like you to follow all of this since it does not show in game play, so I get that)

4th, what happend in Cata... is many years in the past now, so next time try to be more open minded since things change with time ^^

PS: Remember that this is just a friendly reminder and info for you, I have nothing against you or against what you said, wish you an amazing day and many good things!

- - - Updated - - -

What? That makes no sense, I am confused.

you do understand that he is just a troll or a very confused person that just focus on what he wants... since I am 100% agreeing with you... on being confused XD

[uuuhname]

Thats Talanji's main goal after joining the Horde is to bring all the tribes back together under the Zandalari. I hope Blizzard does small story patches down the road. It would be cool to have a remastered STV with new questlines/dailys and story similar to what they did in BFA with Darkshore/Arathi.

having sand/forest/frost troll PC options would be very cool.

[Triceron]

If just for increasing chance of playable Shadow Hunters in the future, yes.

I find Troll culture and lore vastly under appreciated. Only Zandalari have been given the depth of exploration, with Drakkari slightly behind. I feel like the rest haven't really been given a lot of depth outside of what we see in raids and a handful of Bwonsamedi related quests over the years.

A united troll empire could help explore the cultures a lot more, beyond just merely being raid bosses.

[sam86]

-snip-

so beside Desolace - which isn't clear now - which land horde owns in wow in general?
what new land horde owns? alliance still control far more land than horde has, and they still complain, while they can fuck our capital and our warchief on weekly basis (and he drops amazing shoulder transmog too)
wow is basically since post-wrath a fantasy world that exist only to show how superior humans are, and in boring way too, at least give us humans variety of warhammer

[Wolfrick]

so beside Desolace - which isn't clear now - which land horde owns in wow in general?
what new land horde owns? alliance still control far more land than horde has, and they still complain, while they can fuck our capital and our warchief on weekly basis (and he drops amazing shoulder transmog too)
wow is basically since post-wrath a fantasy world that exist only to show how superior humans are, and in boring way too, at least give us humans variety of warhammer

Well, Dustwallow marsh... tousand needls... Feralas, since we think that in Lore the Ogres of dire maul joined the horde after they did the tribute run, then you have half of azshara.

and if you think about it most of the Broken Isls zones are under horde control... since the High mountain and the NightBorne gives us a huge territorial advantage.

Its was very logical that Stromgarde won... since they had a true and strong moral reason to hold that zone for their human heritage... the horde did just a defenceable battle... and in most cases... that is a losing strategy.

Then again... as you can see in the cinamtics of BFA... the alliance army... is at its last man... they even say that after this last recruments they have to recruit the farms and workers...

So I think you just have focus on the wrong parts of the game and choose to not see the big picture

[sam86]

Well, Dustwallow marsh... tousand needls... Feralas, since we think that in Lore the Ogres of dire maul joined the horde after they did the tribute run, then you have half of azshara.

horde has azshara since classic, more accurate to say that no one wants it in first place (not sure when alliance dropped it, i think it was a novel pre-cata)
dustwallow march is still not horde zone, at most u can say it isn't alliance either
same for 1k needle, feralas, in fact feralas is one of biggest nelf zones, 3rd after Mount Hyjal and Ashenvale, even if ogres did join, it is like saying that Durotan is an alliance zone because they have a keep in it
If u using the cinematic it also doesn't show horde strong either, in general as shown in many lore sources, alliance did win the 3rd war (BFA), but no side is strong, unlike MoP where alliance were clear victory army and only superpower left, in BFA alliance did win but they lost most their armies, and the same for horde, both are shallow versions of themselves
As for having broken isle zones with Suramar and Highmountain, if u going that route u should add Zandalari then
But this is NOT the topic here, we talking about alliance new land gained in cata they kept, not any new zone later, because who knows for example who holds more influence in MoP, it is easy to bet that pandalands is at least alliance friendly since Garrosh fucked it hard

[Rozz]

I don't think the humans would want that. They broke apart their different flavors of British fantasy multiple times and look to the strongest human kingdom to do most of the work leading the Alliance--not all humans.

Trolls have a long history revering the Zandalari. Considering they tried to come together and believe in divine right (aka, the priest w/ the best loa connections is usually the leader), unification feels like their natural progression.

[Grazrug]

I think it is for the greater good of everyone involved if Blizzard stops giving the Horde any spotlight for a while. Bfa destroyed everything for us. I rather remain unused instead of being ruined by Golden and her Alliance bias at the expense of Horde lore. Let the Horde rest for a while. We really need that.

[Shadowtwili]

you do understand that he is just a troll or a very confused person that just focus on what he wants... since I am 100% agreeing with you... on being confused XD

I never assume someone is a troll, just of different opinion or different understanding of the Lore.

having sand/forest/frost troll PC options would be very cool.

Would honestly be great,having every troll subrace available. It'll increase the customisation options and give trolls more body types, like the humans.

I don't think the humans would want that. They broke apart their different flavors of British fantasy multiple times and look to the strongest human kingdom to do most of the work leading the Alliance--not all humans.

To be fair, the Empire of Arathor broke apart because of differences in how to head into the future and magic was distrusted at that point. Currently most human nations are mostly in the same camp, with only Dalaran bieng the weird one out. But they've reclaimed quite a few lost territories and are looking into reclaiming more.

Trolls have a long history revering the Zandalari. Considering they tried to come together and believe in divine right (aka, the priest w/ the best loa connections is usually the leader), unification feels like their natural progression.

Well, the Zandalari are the priest-caste of all Trollkind, after all. So even under the Horde, the Zandalari could, probably, reunite the various troll tribes through either strength of arms or religion. Except maybe the Amani, cuz you know Zul'jin.

I think it is for the greater good of everyone involved if Blizzard stops giving the Horde any spotlight for a while. Bfa destroyed everything for us. I rather remain unused instead of being ruined by Golden and her Alliance bias at the expense of Horde lore. Let the Horde rest for a while. We really need that.

To be fair, the Alliance is lawful stupid, the Horde gets insane villain batted.

Let's hope we'll get a Light is "bad" expac soon, where the Alliance is the aggressor for once (even if it'll kill Turalyon, Velen and Moira probably :< )

[Nathreim]

Lordaeron is dead and most of the human survivors died in Theramore. Alterac is also dead (destroyed by Black dragons) and occupied by the Horde and Gilneas is blighted beyond habitation. Its impossible for some human kingdoms to return they were largely destroyed. Lordaeron also has the continued issue of necromatic magic poisoning the land. As we saw in cata WPL you can make the land look clean again but the energy is still soaked into the environment to the point crops turn into monsters.

The Troll kingdoms only remain as much as they do because they simply didnt receive the level of attack as Lordaeron Alterac and Gilneas. While they suffered raids it never rose to the level of wholesale destruction that their human counterparts suffered.

[Wolfrick]

horde has azshara since classic, more accurate to say that no one wants it in first place (not sure when alliance dropped it, i think it was a novel pre-cata)
dustwallow march is still not horde zone, at most u can say it isn't alliance either
same for 1k needle, feralas, in fact feralas is one of biggest nelf zones, 3rd after Mount Hyjal and Ashenvale, even if ogres did join, it is like saying that Durotan is an alliance zone because they have a keep in it
If u using the cinematic it also doesn't show horde strong either, in general as shown in many lore sources, alliance did win the 3rd war (BFA), but no side is strong, unlike MoP where alliance were clear victory army and only superpower left, in BFA alliance did win but they lost most their armies, and the same for horde, both are shallow versions of themselves
As for having broken isle zones with Suramar and Highmountain, if u going that route u should add Zandalari then
But this is NOT the topic here, we talking about alliance new land gained in cata they kept, not any new zone later, because who knows for example who holds more influence in MoP, it is easy to bet that pandalands is at least alliance friendly since Garrosh fucked it hard

The Horde Took Azshara.... from the night elves... since they needed more land and resources... then Varian Convinced Tyrande to leave those lands to the horde... (So this counts as a Horde Annexation)

In a book... where the Horde had Most of its army in Dustwallow Marsh... and then they Nuked Theramor... means that a zone or land is conquered... dont you think... In the BFA mission table you send Troops to Theramors Ruins to look for Alliance scouts.... so that means that the Dustwallow marsh is in Horde hands.
(If you ask me those lands are Ogre lands and since the Alliance has close to Vanished from that zone after that huge setback... the Ogres are doing really good and growing in numbers)

For Thousand Needles... we Literally take back our Tauren outpost and do a direct attack at the major Grim Totem base in the zone... brining it to its knees and killing its leader... the only alliance outpost in this zone is at the far Northwest... so yes... this zone is in horde hands for now.
(If you ofc, count that most of the Grim Totem joined back into the Tauren and the horde, and we did fight back the Twilight hammer)

For Feralas... there are 1 major base and some outposts in the zone from the Alliance.... and there are 1 major Ogre outpost and a huge Tauren Town.... so For the Horde they have way more of a presence in the zone the the alliance, and if you think about it the Alliance are at the coast after they had lost a huge.... base on the island that was taken by Naga, and if you also Count the many many Ogres inside Dire Maul that joined the Horde... Feralas is a Horde zone... espescialy after Teldrasill was destroyed and the Night elves sent every man they had to take back Darkshore.

For the Cinematic, Anduin says... these are the last Recruits.... then Graymane says... after this we need to enlist the farmer and workers... if an army is at that point it means they have a huge manpower shortage...
instead the Horde is a very numerous faction... the Orcs, Tauren and Trolls are known to have a lot of offsprings and if you count the people who comes from Outlands and those that joined from the Mag'har dreanor Scenario... they have the numbers... why do you think that the Horde could split in two and still be at a good odd to fight both the Horde Revolutionaries and the Alliance.

On the Shallow victory for the Horde and the Alliance, yes I agree, but we can't say that both sides got nothing out of it, Horde gained ground in Kalimdor and Alliance gained ground on the Eastern kingdoms
(and if you think about it, 2/3 of the Stonetalon Mountains are also held by the Horde, and the bomb did huge damage to the Alliance.)

Well, ofc we should include the Zandalari and their island.... same with the Kul'tiras for the Alliance... if we are talking about the 4th war that was a World war... ofc we talk about all over the place.

and for Pandaria... we have no clue who has the most ground there, we even had a Battleground that raised one of the pandaren towns to the ground (Halfhill), so as of this point I think the Pandaren are an even split as in most cases.

And if you think about Northrend... the Horde gained 1 of the Tuskar tribes are allies and the Tunka...

So, if you ask me.... the 4th War was horrible for both sides... but both gained territories and Lost it... Horde got stronger on Kalimdor and the Alliance got stronger on the Eastern Kingdoms.

[sam86]

-snip-

-again no, nelf had no presence in Azshara since classic, no one wanted that zone both factions, it is a desolate zone with weak to no resources, Azshara was never an alliance zone in any lore source or ex-source like the RPG books, saying that Varian made Tyrande leave it is like saying Cairne told Thrall to leave Dustwallow march to alliance, horde never owned Dustwallow march, thanks alliance 'generosity' for leaving a shit zone they never wanted in first place
-u also have mini quests in every zone on both sides since WoD, this is seriously never a lore reference, or else we have dancing female pirate ogres in official lore too
-so ur source is because horde have a base in it? does that mean that Searing Gorge is alliance zone? What about Badlands? Blasted lands? U do understand difference between having an outpost and actual claiming owning that land? was Silithus a nelf zone since they had an outpost there pre-sword?
-Feralas IS a nelf zone, considered their 3rd zone after Mount Hyjal and Ashenvale in lore, their forests is 3rd important, having ogre there is as i said like having a keep in Durotan and claim it is alliance zone, in case u missed it almost every zone has a presence of smaller zones, this is like saying that Dun Morogh is a troll zone not dwarfs
-Where exactly did any official lore source claim that horde rebel side can fight horde Sylvanas side without alliance help? both armies are destroyed by end of war, just alliance AND horde rebel won if u want that accurate
-what ground horde gained in 4th war in kalimdor? zandalari isn't there
-pandalands has obvious hatred towards horde, u can say it isn't alliance and that is debatable, but for sure it isn't horde (and let's just ignore it anyway until we get update news there)
-and alliance gain the frost dwarfs who have bigger presence, not to mention that AT while neutral still favor alliance and has the biggest presence there, not counting dalaran influence and alliance already having many outposts, who control northrend for real? honestly probably no one, this zone is too harsh for either alliance or horde to control it, not to mention not worth any fight there either
-again how exactly horde got stronger in kalimdor? by wiping out Darnassus? if u go back to classic, tyrande won't really hate it, heck nelf probably hate it due to how horde did it (which is no question a war crime, a term that shouldn't be used in medieval fantasy?), but nelf never loved Darnassus, just of course they still would never want horde to destroy it by MORALLY GREY killing innocent civilians women and children too

[geco]

Throughout the history of WoW. The Horde in Kalimndor only faced Tyrande and the sentries.
With Maiev mia because she hated Tyrande
And Malfurion Mia because he was a bastard. Even Cata one of the plots is that the Druids get tired of Malfurion not fighting the Horde and that is why they end up joining the Druids of the Flame.

So from BFA. The Horde essentially won two new enemies on Kalimdnor.

If we add to that, the mountain giants and Chimeras suddenly returned.

It can be said that in Truth the Horde grew weaker in Kalimndor. Not because the Alliance became "magically stronger" but because the Horde did such bad things that it made new enemies from the neutral factions.

But since it has the weft armor we will say no.

[Wolfrick]

-again no, nelf had no presence in Azshara since classic, no one wanted that zone both factions, it is a desolate zone with weak to no resources, Azshara was never an alliance zone in any lore source or ex-source like the RPG books, saying that Varian made Tyrande leave it is like saying Cairne told Thrall to leave Dustwallow march to alliance, horde never owned Dustwallow march, thanks alliance 'generosity' for leaving a shit zone they never wanted in first place
-u also have mini quests in every zone on both sides since WoD, this is seriously never a lore reference, or else we have dancing female pirate ogres in official lore too
-so ur source is because horde have a base in it? does that mean that Searing Gorge is alliance zone? What about Badlands? Blasted lands? U do understand difference between having an outpost and actual claiming owning that land? was Silithus a nelf zone since they had an outpost there pre-sword?
-Feralas IS a nelf zone, considered their 3rd zone after Mount Hyjal and Ashenvale in lore, their forests is 3rd important, having ogre there is as i said like having a keep in Durotan and claim it is alliance zone, in case u missed it almost every zone has a presence of smaller zones, this is like saying that Dun Morogh is a troll zone not dwarfs
-Where exactly did any official lore source claim that horde rebel side can fight horde Sylvanas side without alliance help? both armies are destroyed by end of war, just alliance AND horde rebel won if u want that accurate
-what ground horde gained in 4th war in kalimdor? zandalari isn't there
-pandalands has obvious hatred towards horde, u can say it isn't alliance and that is debatable, but for sure it isn't horde (and let's just ignore it anyway until we get update news there)
-and alliance gain the frost dwarfs who have bigger presence, not to mention that AT while neutral still favor alliance and has the biggest presence there, not counting dalaran influence and alliance already having many outposts, who control northrend for real? honestly probably no one, this zone is too harsh for either alliance or horde to control it, not to mention not worth any fight there either
-again how exactly horde got stronger in kalimdor? by wiping out Darnassus? if u go back to classic, tyrande won't really hate it, heck nelf probably hate it due to how horde did it (which is no question a war crime, a term that shouldn't be used in medieval fantasy?), but nelf never loved Darnassus, just of course they still would never want horde to destroy it by MORALLY GREY killing innocent civilians women and children too

Well, we are just of different oppinions and ideas, so lets just agree to disagree ^^

[Traveler Voltin]

Troll empire yes.
human kingdoms no, they are boring.

[sam86]

Troll empire yes.
human kingdoms no, they are boring.

did u miss wc2 human kingdoms? they had a lot of interesting in-fights that almost dwarf the (back then) boring in relative horde story

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

did u miss wc2 human kingdoms? they had a lot of interesting in-fights that almost dwarf the (back then) boring in relative horde story

Human politics and the cultural and political differences and disputes between human kingdoms are clearly far too ingnored, in fact it applies for all the races whose internal politics and tensions aren't shown enough.

It would be very interesting to see more of the House of Nobles and to see how Varian and Anduin have to deal with them, for example we could have seen the house of nobles going against the king's policy and decisions such as the peace with the Horde. Or the other kingdoms such as Gilneas and Stromgarde, but also Dalaran and Kul Tiras not agreeing with Stormwind and having different visions of the strategy in the conflicts or peace with the Horde and what attitude to have with them.

Same for the dwarves and the problems caused by the reintegration of Dark Iron and Wildhammers into Ironforge, for example we could have seen what were the effects on Ironforge senate and to see the dilemnas of having to expand the senate to include wildhammer and dark iron senators or to retire a portion of the senators to have them replaced by wildhammer and dark irons, and also to see some heated debates and tensions on the representation of each clan with Bronzebeard wanting to have more numerous senators while the wildhammers and dark irons would want to be in equal numbers, or the dark irons wanting that the representants would be proportionnal to thei respective clans which would cause the senate to have more dark iron senators than wildhammers hence huge tensions in Ironforge.

[mysticx]

did u miss wc2 human kingdoms? they had a lot of interesting in-fights that almost dwarf the (back then) boring in relative horde story

Admittedly, it was easy to miss that, it was mentioned in passing in WC2's mission briefings, but most people just clicked through them, Blizz only really detailed it all in books, but not many people read all of those.

In reply to the OP: No, i wouldn't, we need to spread attention among more races, rather than just focusing on one race per faction and having them do everything for an expansion. (Or several ones in a row)