Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[panda040]

You cant buy advantages that are otherwise inaccessable. So no.

Yes you can.... level boosts??? You can literally pay real life money convert it to gold, and buy BoE's that other characters may not be able to buy because they don't have enough gold. And if everyone is buying tokens to pay for expensive BoE items then that drives up the cost of those items, essentially locking out poorer players from getting access to them unless they.... pay real money for tokens. This is basic economics

- - - Updated - - -

The token gives you the option of gold from another player, and you give them 1 month of game time. To make the token P2W would mean it creates the gold for you, but in this case, you are just legally trading game time.

you are splitting hairs here, the net result is the same. The fact is alot of players buy wow tokens and immediately sell them. If the gold flowed one way, i would agree with you. If i had enough gold to buy a token from a vendor and they token was soulbound fine. It's the fact that players can trade the tokens between themselves and the price of 1 wow token is pegged to 20 USD

[Lochton]

The difference is that the possibility to buy the world class team is not offered directly by Riot.
If you want to get the right comparison it would be that Riot lets you transfer RP freely to other players for carries and lets you also use them to buy all future riot games and dlc and cosmetics in all other Riot games. And yes, THAT would be p2w and it is exactly what Blizzard/WoW does.

Naw, but Riot does sell stat buff items for real money, so, P2W then?

[Hellobolis]

The token gives you the option of gold from another player, and you give them 1 month of game time. To make the token P2W would mean it creates the gold for you, but in this case, you are just legally trading game time.

doesn't matter if the gold is printed or traded. the end result is the same.

wealth inequality in the game increases as the gold pretty much just flows in one direction: towards the boosters, which in turn just hastens inflation which just reinforces the cycle.

[Lochton]

you are splitting hairs here, the net result is the same. The fact is alot of players buy wow tokens and immediately sell them. If the gold flowed one way, i would agree with you. If i had enough gold to buy a token from a vendor and they token was soulbound fine. It's the fact that players can trade the tokens between themselves and the price of 1 wow token is pegged to 20 USD

The token is set at 20 dollars because it is game time that they legally permit you to sell in-game, though. It is a win for the seller and the buyer, but Blizzard is not the one offering you the direct winning service.

[Delever]

Naw, but Riot does sell stat buff items for real money, so, P2W then?

What stat buff items do they sell???

[Stardrift]

Yes. It is 100% pay to win. Buy max level, buy gold, buy PvE/PvP boost. Win.

[Lochton]

doesn't matter if the gold is printed or traded. the end result is the same.

wealth inequality in the game increases as the gold pretty much just flows in one direction: towards the boosters, which in turn just hastens inflation which just reinforces the cycle.

But then you are back at the currency being the main problem because of the existence of boosters, not Blizzard. People had no problem accumulating wealth before the token.

- - - Updated - - -

What stat buff items do they sell???

Last I recall (this is years ago), you could buy stat increasing items on the RP Store.

Edit: Runes, they were called!

[Stardrift]

The token gives you the option of gold from another player, and you give them 1 month of game time. To make the token P2W would mean it creates the gold for you, but in this case, you are just legally trading game time.

You're purchasing gold from another player with real money. That money goes to Blizzard, and you get your gold. It doesn't matter where it comes from, and no amount of stretching will change the fact that it is pay to win.

You give money, and receive currency that you then spend on things to make you better at the game. That's the definition of P2W.

[loras]

P2Win is primarily a problem when you're directly competing with others, so for pvp i'd argue that it has been fluctuating greatly over the years.

I mean in social situations people are always going to find ways to be elitist and seem justified about it, practical meaningful differences not required.

In PvP it's more troublesome though, so for tgat it really matters whether there is some sort of equaliser (Think Legion pvp templates or anything of the sort) to even out differences in support of a remotely level playing ground exists.

Because when they exist any undue advantages and dusbalances will have been mitigated sufficiently for it not to be considered "Pay to win", in my opinion.
As for PvE "winning" is a discussion between you and the system, if you want to cheat this particular system without affecting me, welk, go right ahead. It seems pointlesd to even play that way, but honestly it's a game; cheat if you want to and do not undermine others in doing so.

[Stardrift]

But then you are back at the currency being the main problem because of the existence of boosters, not Blizzard. People had no problem accumulating wealth before the token.

- - - Updated - - -



Last I recall (this is years ago), you could buy stat increasing items on the RP Store.

Boosters are a product. Everything little thing in the game is a product of Blizzard. Even if they don't outright do it themselves with an employee or automated service, it is still a product of their own product.

[Lochton]

Boosters are a product. Everything little thing in the game is a product of Blizzard. Even if they don't outright do it themselves with an employee or automated service, it is still a product of their own product.

Eh, no. Boosters are a product of human creativity within a virtual environment of people who rather not wish to achieve the goal by their own work, thus looking for people who have dedicated themselves to reaching this goal because they know there is a market for it.

For else you can turn every game into P2W, even freaking Minecraft.

[Hellobolis]

But then you are back at the currency being the main problem because of the existence of boosters, not Blizzard. People had no problem accumulating wealth before the token.

problem is that post token it has real world value.

sure you can't export real money out of wow, but you can spend less on wow because of it.

you directly save $13 a month by boosting. and you indirectly save time or money by not having to buy tokens/having to grind less for ingame gold for expensive items or other blizzard games.

or who knows, maybe it's just a giant completely unrelated coincidence that boosting has massively taken off shortly after the token was put in.

and well, the boostees definitely gain in game value for paying that real money on the tokens, all the way to the best things available in game if you spend enough.

[Delever]

But then you are back at the currency being the main problem because of the existence of boosters, not Blizzard. People had no problem accumulating wealth before the token.

- - - Updated - - -



Last I recall (this is years ago), you could buy stat increasing items on the RP Store.

Edit: Runes, they were called!

You could only buy the tier 1 runes which were by all means and purposes irrelevant. This system has been ditched long ago. Do you think blizzard will ditch the token? Because I honestly have no problem with cosmetic stuff even in a sub based MMO.
But combating illegal practices by legalizing them and raking in the profits yourself by undercutting the illegal market is where I draw the line.

[Lochton]

problem is that post token it has real world value.

sure you can't export real money out of wow, but you can spend less on wow because of it.

you directly save $13 a month by boosting. and you indirectly save time or money by not having to buy tokens/having to grind less for ingame gold for expensive items or other blizzard games.

or who knows, maybe it's just a giant completely unrelated coincidence that boosting has massively taken off shortly after the token was put in.

Boosting was already a huge issue before the token, and many acquired that gold either hard-working or breaking the ToS (purchase from farmers, hackers, scammers).

[mbit]

P2Win is primarily a problem when you're directly competing with others, so for pvp i'd argue that it has been fluctuating greatly over the years.

I mean in social situations people are always going to find ways to be elitist and seem justified about it, practical meaningful differences not required.

In PvP it's more troublesome though, so for tgat it really matters whether there is some sort of equaliser (Think Legion pvp templates or anything of the sort) to even out differences in support of a remotely level playing ground exists.

Because when they exist any undue advantages and dusbalances will have been mitigated sufficiently for it not to be considered "Pay to win", in my opinion.
As for PvE "winning" is a discussion between you and the system, if you want to cheat this particular system without affecting me, welk, go right ahead. It seems pointlesd to even play that way, but honestly it's a game; cheat if you want to and do not undermine others in doing so.

PvE is same competition as school grades - sure you aint breaking anyone's nose but your ranking is still competitive. Casuals buy boosts to rank higher so they get easier invites to groups and the top guilds get as much gold for gearing faster and go even into debt to buy advantages. Its identical to doping in sports. If you want to win you cant avoid buying advantages because the rest also do it.

For pvp the bigger issue is that the carries play vs regular people and destroy their fun with onesided slaughter. Its killing pvp itself when people smurf among noobs to make gold.

[Lochton]

You could only buy the tier 1 runes which were by all means and purposes irrelevant. This system has been ditched long ago.

Was still a direct purchase of power back then. One level up from what Blizzard is even close to offering.

[Stardrift]

Eh, no. Boosters are a product of human creativity within a virtual environment of people who rather not wish to achieve the goal by their own work, thus looking for people who have dedicated themselves to reaching this goal because they know there is a market for it.

For else you can turn every game into P2W, even freaking Minecraft.

Yes, a product Blizzard gives them the tools to sell. It's allowed, and Blizzard profits from it. It makes the game by definition P2W as you would be purchasing player power with gold. Does not matter if Blizzard does it themselves with an employee or an automated service. It is what it is, so call it what it is and quit stretching just to be a contrarian.

[justandulas]

Yes. Any game that lets you boost levels, buy skills like Mount riding with mounts, buy gold (which directly buys gear) is pay to win

Even tbc is infected with the paid boost and I guarantee they will find a way to sell the old card game items in tbc classic too. Further pay to win

[Delever]

Was still a direct purchase of power back then. One level up from what Blizzard is even close to offering.

Look man if we re gonna grasp at straws here by going by direct textbook definitions and ignore the reality of what each purchase offers in the end then there is no point arguing this.

[Hellobolis]

Boosting was already a huge issue before the token, and many acquired that gold either hard-working or breaking the ToS (purchase from farmers, hackers, scammers).

it was a problem before sure. but the scale of the operation has increased a hundred fold since.


hard-work also is much less rewarding now. i haven't changed my gameplay habits, yet before i could buy all the goldsinks and now i most certainly can't anymore.