Do most people like the troll or night elf civilizations more? Which do you prefer?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Is it because they actually are or you are just fed up of all the fan boy obsession and too much focus.

People said the same about humans and they are one of the most detailed and extensive race in wow. But because there is so much and you always hear about it. One can just lose interest

Because they actually are boring to me. I don't like things based on Hipster criteria. They're not quite as boring as the beautiful, white humans with pointy ears depicted in the LOTR movies, but compared to other WoW races they feel very uninteresting.

[Feanoro]

The first time was with Garithos. I've made that quite clear.

They didn't reach out to join the Alliance with Garithos, as they were members at the time. It's ok if you don't like it, but the lore is the lore. (See, I can be snotty too!) Try knowing the lore correctly before you lecture others.

In fact, the former - they were very intrigued by the idea.

I've never advocated for them to return to the Alliance, any more than I'd advocate keeping venomous snakes in the house. They've more than proven to be treacherous opportunists over the years, and their eagerness to commit war crimes like Theramore means they're a clear and present threat that should be wiped out. Naturally, that won't happen since A) the business model and B) the Horde has plot armor visible from orbit, but it would be the logical consequence of what's happened.

[Tanaria]

They didn't reach out to join the Alliance with Garithos, as they were members at the time. It's ok if you don't like it, but the lore is the lore. (See, I can be snotty too!) Try knowing the lore correctly before you lecture others.

You can be snotty, but it might help your case if you actually gave correct information.

Quel'Thalas, at the time of the Third War was not a member of the Alliance. They had withdrawn from the faction, after the Second War. Only a handful of Magi and Thalassian Priests aided Arthas, Jaina and the others.
Those under Anasterian's rule, were a neutral nation, no longer part of the Alliance.

Now fast forward to Kael'thas returning and renaming the elves to "Sin'dorei." They were looking for allies and tried their hand at the Human survivors of Lordaeron, who hadn't left with Jaina. This failed. Lady Vashj enters the scene and she's successful in this first part of the recruitment to the Illidari. Now these Elves were not the Horde Blood Elves we could play as in TBC - these were the Sunfury. (You could argue that you can now play as these Elves through the Blood Elf Demon Hunters.)

Now those who remained in Silvermoon to deal with the Scourge; it was only natural that they would accept the aid of the Forsaken (by extent, Sylvanas), through their common kinship with her. The Alliance sent no hands of friendship to the Elves. Tyrande, of all people, could have and she chose not to...but this is what you get when you send the Night Elves.

[Beloren]

Because they actually are boring to me. I don't like things based on Hipster criteria. They're not quite as boring as the beautiful, white humans with pointy ears depicted in the LOTR movies, but compared to other WoW races they feel very uninteresting.

Well compared to LotR. Warcraft elves are cheap badly written knock offs elves written. By authors trying to grasp concepts they clearly don’t understand and fail hard at portraying in any believable or proper sense.

But they look hot and have lots of cool stuff, moreso than trolls, so I like them

[perkocet]

I truly prefer the savage xenophobic elves of warcraft's past. But clearly Blizzard does not, so I picked Troll. Shame.

[Soon-TM]

I truly prefer the savage xenophobic elves of warcraft's past. But clearly Blizzard does not, so I picked Troll. Shame.

This. At least trolls these days still feel quite troll-ish, no matter if they are the highly civilised Zandalari, the barbaric cannibals of Nazmir, or all those troll tribes somewhere in the middle such as the Darkspear or the Revantusk.

On the other hand, nelfs were cool in WC3 and still quite interesting in Vanilla (hell, I rolled nelf priest in Classic), but since Cata, or even WotLK they have fallen victim to dat human potential. And badly so.

[Shadowferal]

I've always loved the whole of old Teldrassil; from Shadowglen, to Dolanaar, to Darnassus.

[Beloren]

I truly prefer the savage xenophobic elves of warcraft's past. But clearly Blizzard does not, so I picked Troll. Shame.

I don't get it, they were aggressive and got things done, but they were never savage.. where does this come from?

I've gone over the material a few times, and all I can see was Grom calling the sentinels he fought. Tyrande seemed brutal by the fact she killed those who disobyed her, but that doesn't come across as that savage to me at all.

In WC3 they weren't pussies, butt ehy weren't savage either - unless not hesistating to kill your deadly or unwelcome enemies is what you call savage.

perhaps my standards are lower, to me savage, is ripping someoen's throat out with your teeth like an animal and shredding them, where are simple stab will do, you would instead eviscerate, blood draining down you..

savage is taking animals or humans and sacrificing them to concoct some blood ritual. Those elves don't come across like that at all. The blood elves in TBC came off more brutal and savage than I've ever seen night elves.


I don't get it Can someone please detail and explain to me this savagery of the night elves? To me it just seems that Grom poetically uses the term to describe an instance

[perkocet]

I don't get it, they were aggressive and got things done, but they were never savage.. where does this come from?

I've gone over the material a few times, and all I can see was Grom calling the sentinels he fought. Tyrande seemed brutal by the fact she killed those who disobyed her, but that doesn't come across as that savage to me at all.

In WC3 they weren't pussies, butt ehy weren't savage either - unless not hesistating to kill your deadly or unwelcome enemies is what you call savage.

perhaps my standards are lower, to me savage, is ripping someoen's throat out with your teeth like an animal and shredding them, where are simple stab will do, you would instead eviscerate, blood draining down you..

savage is taking animals or humans and sacrificing them to concoct some blood ritual. Those elves don't come across like that at all. The blood elves in TBC came off more brutal and savage than I've ever seen night elves.


I don't get it Can someone please detail and explain to me this savagery of the night elves? To me it just seems that Grom poetically uses the term to describe an instance

I think if that is your hard and fast definition of savagery then I think that answers your question. Your bar for savagery is just higher than mine, that's all. I definitely wouldn't want to get in a scrap with you IRL. Hehe.

[Beloren]

I think if that is your hard and fast definition of savagery then I think that answers your question. Your bar for savagery is just higher than mine, that's all. I definitely wouldn't want to get in a scrap with you IRL. Hehe.

But what are you seeing as savage? the night elf seemed more serious, and to borrow someone else's term, "dangerous" - then became pussies. Pussy elves, fawning over humans is boring and really not the MO of the race, at least the one that was introduced to us.. that was the purview of high elves.. when you take the interesting new elf you've invented, then just make them traditional human buddy "high elves" copy cats - then don't show anything else ...

[Stardrift]

Elves are done to death. While I do enjoy Warcraft's take on them, it isn't in any way a unique take. Well, besides the fact they're evolved from Trolls. The only good detail coming from Chronicles lol

Trolls however are pretty unique. Loa, voodoo, poop huts and shit sticks, regeneration, etc. Much more appealing than yet another copy/paste of the elves from Lord of the Rings.

- - - Updated - - -

I truly prefer the savage xenophobic elves of warcraft's past. But clearly Blizzard does not, so I picked Troll. Shame.

Can't have any racial tensions, no sir. dANUSer wouldn't like that one bit!

- - - Updated - - -

This. At least trolls these days still feel quite troll-ish, no matter if they are the highly civilised Zandalari, the barbaric cannibals of Nazmir, or all those troll tribes somewhere in the middle such as the Darkspear or the Revantusk.

On the other hand, nelfs were cool in WC3 and still quite interesting in Vanilla (hell, I rolled nelf priest in Classic), but since Cata, or even WotLK they have fallen victim to dat human potential. And badly so.

They, just like their Troll cousins, have become a punching bag. In the end, it doesn't matter who favours which of the two. They both suck ass and get fed their own shit.

[Procrustes]

I am not a lore expert and I stopped playing WoW since WotLK, so I lost all the progress of these two races.
Blizzard failed to make Elves glorious, like Tolkien did. Or they followed his narrative of Elves declining and Humans be in charge.
Nevertheless, Elves are not appealing to me. As a story. As models, female NE is the only character model, I can play with.
Trolls, are very diverse. But not prestigious. I prefer them over Night Elves. But only because I love the Horde, and I am biased.

[Soon-TM]

Blizzard failed to make Elves glorious, like Tolkien did.

Tbh, Tolkien's elves may have been glorious in the old days, but by the time of LotR it becomes quite clear that they are a pale shadow of what they once were. Ditto for Warcraft elves, at least in WC3/early WoW: nelfs rejected their arcane heritage, going to the extreme of banishing those who wouldn't share such mindset, and embraced a much more primitive lifestyle overall. Belfs were a glorious civilization, pre-LotR style... Until WC3, when they were nothing short of decimated. It's hard to say to what extent has Silvermoon recovered from the 3rd War (assuming it has recovered at all, they have been on the losing side of two major faction wars already) but they are certainly not a Tolkien-like superpower, and haven't been since at least WC3.

[geco]

Tbh, Tolkien's elves may have been glorious in the old days, but by the time of LotR it becomes quite clear that they are a pale shadow of what they once were. Ditto for Warcraft elves, at least in WC3/early WoW: nelfs rejected their arcane heritage, going to the extreme of banishing those who wouldn't share such mindset, and embraced a much more primitive lifestyle overall. Belfs were a glorious civilization, pre-LotR style... Until WC3, when they were nothing short of decimated. It's hard to say to what extent has Silvermoon recovered from the 3rd War (assuming it has recovered at all, they have been on the losing side of two major faction wars already) but they are certainly not a Tolkien-like superpower, and haven't been since at least WC3.

Thing is, WoW the Elves don't have the powers the elves wow say the elves have.

I had read here that the elves have 3 of the most powerful entities to defend them. But surprise when defending them hopefully there is 1 and when attacking again there is only 1.

On the other hand, in Tolkien the elves have what Tolkien says that the elves have.

[Soon-TM]

Thing is, WoW Elves don't have the powers the elves wow say the elves have.

That's why I still think that adding nelfs to Alliance was a bad mistake. From a lore PoV, a race who can conjure the power of Wild Gods, backed by mountain giants, chimaeras and led by a literal demigod... had no need whatsoever (at the time of Vanilla, anyway) to join a military alliance whose main members are in the other corner of the world - especially when said prospective partners were far, FAR weaker anyway.

But I guess marketing is a !@#$%, so they were added nevertheless. After all, they have always been the 2nd most popular Alliance race, and have been given a LOT of spotlight (although seldom in a fancy sense lul).

[geco]

That's why I still think that adding nelfs to Alliance was a bad mistake. From a lore PoV, a race who can conjure the power of Wild Gods, backed by mountain giants, chimaeras and led by a literal demigod... had no need whatsoever (at the time of Vanilla, anyway) to join a military alliance whose main members are in the other corner of the world - especially when said prospective partners were far, FAR weaker anyway.

But I guess marketing is a !@#$%, so they were added nevertheless. After all, they have always been the 2nd most popular Alliance race, and have been given a LOT of spotlight (although seldom in a fancy sense lul).

I think the mistake is that Blizzard is based on destroying the things that fans like.
Imagine if the War of Thorns had been. Malfurion vs Trall, Sylvanas vs Tyrande, Voljin Vs Maiev. Mecha Gobling vs Giants. Dragons vs Chimeras.
And so and so.

But instead Blizzard destroys and destroys and then it occurred to him that he had to have a war where the Horde essentially won. But the Horde makes 3 scans that they have no troops to overcome the Kaldorei. (Which I emphasize should not be like that).

Apart from the renegades on the other hand they also have "great toys" and if they let them use them.

[ravenmoon]

I think the mistake is that Blizzard is based on destroying the things that fans like.
Imagine if the War of Thorns had been. Malfurion vs Trall, Sylvanas vs Tyrande, Voljin Vs Maiev. Mecha Gobling vs Giants. Dragons vs Chimeras.
And so and so.

But instead Blizzard destroys and destroys and then it occurred to him that he had to have a war where the Horde essentially won. But the Horde makes 3 scans that they have no troops to overcome the Kaldorei. (Which I emphasize should not be like that).

Apart from the renegades on the other hand they also have "great toys" and if they let them use them.

Indeed, races like night elves are just canon fodder now. Blizzard know how to destroy, but not to build up.

How blind can they be sometimes? They tried so hard to get people attached to these races so they'll be attached tot heir game , and are surprised that a lot of people get upset and are fed up with the rubbish treatment and it actually matters.

you mean people actually cared for more than the main storyline of what Thrall, Jaina, Anduin, Sylvanas, Tyrande, Lor'themar, Khadgar etc etc are doing?

You damn bet they do, the identity of the player character is tied into his race, precisely because he has no name and is an "adventurer" in the game.

Blizzard aren't getting this, so race is the next level of identification for the player, and it means more than faction or another character. They also don't get this.

Faction is too broad, you pick race, because races are soo different, and so diverse, which is a good thing, there is something that people can identify with, not with factions, factions are like federations or conglomerates, coalitions, you will always identify more with your tribe before your clan, before your nation, before your continent.

They don't understand that. So the welfare of the races is not that important.

If they knew this, there is no way Nightborne would have gone to the horde, and the night elves would have been built up a long time ago. Furthermore, there'd have been much much more blood elf lore . And if they didn't want it to detract from the main theme of the horde, they would have made the effort to always tell progression stories for the most popular races, and tie some of the less popular races in to them enough times.


Gnomes would have been tied often to dwarves who'd have been tied to humans and you can follow the rest.

[geco]

Indeed, races like night elves are just canon fodder now. Blizzard know how to destroy, but not to build up.

How blind can they be sometimes? They tried so hard to get people attached to these races so they'll be attached tot heir game , and are surprised that a lot of people get upset and are fed up with the rubbish treatment and it actually matters.

you mean people actually cared for more than the main storyline of what Thrall, Jaina, Anduin, Sylvanas, Tyrande, Lor'themar, Khadgar etc etc are doing?

You damn bet they do, the identity of the player character is tied into his race, precisely because he has no name and is an "adventurer" in the game.

Blizzard aren't getting this, so race is the next level of identification for the player, and it means more than faction or another character. They also don't get this.

Faction is too broad, you pick race, because races are soo different, and so diverse, which is a good thing, there is something that people can identify with, not with factions, factions are like federations or conglomerates, coalitions, you will always identify more with your tribe before your clan, before your nation, before your continent.

They don't understand that. So the welfare of the races is not that important.

If they knew this, there is no way Nightborne would have gone to the horde, and the night elves would have been built up a long time ago. Furthermore, there'd have been much much more blood elf lore . And if they didn't want it to detract from the main theme of the horde, they would have made the effort to always tell progression stories for the most popular races, and tie some of the less popular races in to them enough times.


Gnomes would have been tied often to dwarves who'd have been tied to humans and you can follow the rest.

I refuse to believe that they are so foolish.
I think they want to "spend less" and that is why they want people to be just the Horde "faction" or alliance.
The point is that apart from Horde and Alliance at this point they do not sell anything. BFA finished destroying them. Because writers think they are much better than they really are.

[ravenmoon]

I refuse to believe that they are so foolish.
I think they want to "spend less" and that is why they want people to be just the Horde "faction" or alliance.
The point is that apart from Horde and Alliance at this point they do not sell anything. BFA finished destroying them. Because writers think they are much better than they really are.

You can be creative, talented, and intelligent and still make foolish and bad decisions. Still miss the obvious - this is why it's never good to be wise in your own eyes, especially if you become successful and people shower you with compliments, the more it goes to your head, the less you see, the more you miss.

Sure they switched their focus and priority to the main character storytelling, it seemed a good decision in terms of streamlining and focusing and giving a more meaningful story, but they forgot the impact of the races, and in this type of game, people care about such things. They totally underestimated how much it matters..

if they hadn't, we'd have seen much more come to the night elves after Wot, also, we'd have seen extra effort being made to develop the races and continue to show them going forward.


There is more involved than what I say, and I'm not in any position to be their assessor, I don't know all the factors they took into account and their resources and what it means.. i just know that players like me care a lot about the races, and so you shouldn't just spend all your time focusing on how a handful of characters deal with the big stories, but make time to build groups up.

- - - Updated - - -

I refuse to believe that they are so foolish.
I think they want to "spend less" and that is why they want people to be just the Horde "faction" or alliance.
The point is that apart from Horde and Alliance at this point they do not sell anything. BFA finished destroying them. Because writers think they are much better than they really are.

Well said. I'll add this:


You can be creative, talented, and intelligent and still make foolish and bad decisions. Still miss the obvious - this is why it's never good to be wise in your own eyes, especially if you become successful and people shower you with compliments, the more it goes to your head, the less you see, the more you miss.

Sure they switched their focus and priority to the main character storytelling, it seemed a good decision in terms of streamlining and focusing and giving a more meaningful story, but they forgot the impact of the races, and in this type of game, people care about such things. They totally underestimated how much it matters..

if they hadn't, we'd have seen much more come to the night elves after Wot, also, we'd have seen extra effort being made to develop the races and continue to show them going forward.


There is more involved than what I say, and I'm not in any position to be their assessor, I don't know all the factors they took into account and their resources and what it means.. i just know that players like me care a lot about the races, and so you shouldn't just spend all your time focusing on how a handful of characters deal with the big stories, but make time to build groups up.

[Tanaria]

Furthermore, there'd have been much much more blood elf lore . And if they didn't want it to detract from the main theme of the horde

It never has detracted from the main theme of the Horde. This is just something Alliance players say, because they want Blood Elves and their city.

Blood Elves have been included where it felt right. After TBC, Blizzard introduced:
Quel'delar:made perfect sense for Sin'dorei involvement. Shame you couldn't play a Blood Elf Warrior back then, because the sword itself was very Thalassian Warrior-lore based. It didn't take away from Thrall, Garrosh or Sylvanas who were in Northrend at the time, doing the Trial of the Crusader and working around the side entrances of Icecrown.
Amani Threat Returns: Working with the Darkspear and High Elves. Very Horde driven, given Vol'jin's attitude towards the meeting that Zul called. Vol'jin considered the Horde the family for the Darkspear and the Blood Elves were included in that.
MoP - 5.1 and 5.2: It was time to make use of Lor'themar's character and what a grand entrance.

Now I could list everything, but I won't do, but the core of this is that the Blood Elves don't detract from the Horde, they never have - they are a core race to the Horde faction and Alliance players need to accept that fact. I mean, it's been well over a decade and I don't understand why we're having these conversations.

People who believe that Blood Elf story is somehow detracted from the Horde...well they're just in denial about the Blood Elves being on the Horde and why they are there, in the first place.