The problem with alliance bias.

[Calfredd]

The Horde will rise again and purge the Alliance from the face of Azeroth.

I put you on the same level as the void elf rper.

[Grazrug]

I put you on the same level as the void elf rper.

The void elf rper fawns for Alleria. He or she is just another alliance fanatic. My fight for the Horde continues. I will never give up until we defeat the Alliance.

[Thage]

>Alliance Bias
>Sylvanas being the main focus for 2 expacs now.

>Literally the entirety of BFA pre-8.3 was Horde storylines co-starring Alliance Reactions
>Just Like Cata
>And MoP

@OP Maybe the Horde would stop losing if it quit defaulting to "wipe entire nations and species off the map and targeting population centers as a matter of course" whenever they go to war. In a franchise predicated upon the continued existence of two factions, any war built around the total extermination of one is going to fail. Instead, you and others seem to think the answer is "quadruple down on a failed philosophy, because this time if we fill our ranks with murderous sociopaths, it will absolutely 100% work," which brings to mind the adage regarding the definition of insanity and repeating the same course of action expecting different results.

[geco]

Here we are in Shadowalnds and still none of the problems the Horde has are fixed.

Neither did those of the Alliance. We can say that they did not solve or close any plot in general.

better cities

You may be right because I find all the cities of the alliance so thematically boring that I never really saw it. Maybe they are beautiful and I do not know. (Just visit Teldrazzil)
But I must say that the Horde cities I love. Less Thunder Bluff.

better characters

We agree Best living characters.
But it is more quantity than quality.

more development

Nope the alliance has 0 development. To give an example the pj Kaldorei have not had development from Vanilla to BFA and apparently in WF the Development of Tyrande is going to be thrown away so 0 development.
Dwarves and Genomes are completely forgotten.

more zones

Can be. I never got to count them

better immersion

Not quite the opposite, the investment of the Alliance is rubbish.
(Your people are being masked but go help this human kingdom that is not going to return the favor.
You are a race that lives hundreds of years but pay attention to this Human King who does not reach 20.
Please human king, can I go defend my city.
Or are you the one who slaughtered my people of course I'm going to help you.
We are an alliance of races. But only Humans will tell.
Is there a Genome Leader? )

The only redeemable thing is that with BFA now also the Horde investment is rubbish too.

better world building

The same as the investment. To get to the point that we don't know why the Kaldorei are part of the Alliance.
The alliance always has its story kicked forward over and over again until it is finally told to you and voila.
To the point that we find out that the Kaldorei recovered Vallesfresno in the Game only when they are predicting it again.

and is generally hailed as the cradle of civilisation on Azeroth.

The elves of the Horde and the Trolls do not think the same.

Horde always gets shafted and ends up holding the short end of the stick. If we want to make the game equal we need to give the Horde a huge boost.

Not really the Alliance receives the short stick and the Horde the long stick with thorns.
Horde needs:

a huge boost in their leader cast.

Completely agree. And Kill Calia.

a new style of architecture for the race who used to be savages.

I don't think it solves anything. But if Sima del Trueno needs it.
I'd rather say a new style for "guts 2". Imagine home from Bones and things like that.

savages has you covered by the Zandalari.

the remaining parts of the core races to join the playable Horde. In this case the Gurubashi tribe, the Amani tribe, the Grimtotem tribe and the remains of the dark and fel Horde.

I do not see the problem of step as they say to unite the missing dwarves and to put that the senario ring is only Alliance. and allies of the Kaldorei happen to be part of the alliance. Although it is not playable
(who already are but are not treated as part of the alliance)

By the way, once and for all, the Kaldorei can use all their power even in 1 war. Not even against the Horde against the Murlocks. But at least 1 you see see all its power for real.

being allowed to kill some Alliance heroes

No. Because the alliance didn't kill any heroes of the Horde.
But if the alliance and the neutrals have to kill heroes of the alliance. Sylvanas's beauties are no longer good for anything. Get off the ground or devalue so many human characters.

so that the blue team suffers real defeats.

Teldrassil? The city of Jaina? The entire renegade campaign in Cataclism?
It really is the Alliance that never had a "true victory" against the Horde in all of WoW. In the best of cases there is a twitter that says "they won".

The Horde in bfa was broken beyond repair. My takes can fix it.

Yep and SW seems to be doing the same with the Alliance.

Naah Horde need to go back to the old days, when they where the "evil" choice and that was accepted and even a big part of why some people picked them.

If by evil you mean that "they look evil but they are not evil in the least.
Yes.
If you mean really being the bad guys .. that's what we've got. But like the bad guys they can't win.
No

The Alliance won. The Horde lost. Alliance bias ruins the game.

Bone the Horde reaches the dark coast.
he kills his guards destroy everything.
He revives the guards as his new soldiers.
The Alliance arrived and began to fight.

They tell us on a twitter that the Alliance won.
If they officially won they won but they are not in the game. We will not see dark coast reclaimed. We will not free those the Horde enslaved.

PS: I still have no bias. I know this is bullshit for the Horde because all their "victories" are things they didn't want. But hey Blizzard always takes the worst option.

Edit

rereading this thread, it seems most ppl missing the strangely obvious sign imo, blizz don't favor alliance nor horde, they favor humans massively since ages, u can argue that 2nd spotlight is orcs but even if that is true (which isn't, orcs fell since WoD) they are miles away from humans focus

most alliance players are right if they don't main (or care about) humans, u are ignored, u exist only to show how amazing humans are, when a 16 years old anime boy king teach a 10k years old nelf about patience, u know u exist just to be fucked by humans

+1
I have the true ending. (XD)
That Talanji manages to sign a peace treaty with the kaldorei and accept the cult of Elune, thanks to the Lunaris. (Because the Loa also accept it) Not counting the rest of the alliance and the Horde.

Then Anduin gets angry and wants to exterminate the Kaldorei. Why don't they follow his light and why don't he follow him.

The Horde then reacts because he owes a huge debt of honor to the Kaldorei and dedicates himself to defending them even if it costs him dearly. The Horde has a lot of Heroic moments and wins a lot of New NPCs along the way.

Then we entered Stormwind and destroyed the entire Human Cult, I say light.

And there in a world where humans are no longer the focus of Alliance history.
Where the Horde returns to have Honor and return to seek "survive" in peace.
Where the Kaldorei received their "compensation"
There the Wow will make more sense.

[Aucald]

Just a reminder that the Lore subforum is not the place for roleplaying, there is another subforum (directly below this one) dedicated to that purpose. This subforum is for discussion of WoW lore from a player/developer perspective.

[scubi666stacy]

>Literally the entirety of BFA pre-8.3 was Horde storylines co-starring Alliance Reactions
>Just Like Cata
>And MoP

@OP Maybe the Horde would stop losing if it quit defaulting to "wipe entire nations and species off the map and targeting population centers as a matter of course" whenever they go to war. In a franchise predicated upon the continued existence of two factions, any war built around the total extermination of one is going to fail. Instead, you and others seem to think the answer is "quadruple down on a failed philosophy, because this time if we fill our ranks with murderous sociopaths, it will absolutely 100% work," which brings to mind the adage regarding the definition of insanity and repeating the same course of action expecting different results.

Well I reject any Horde storyline if it revolves around turning our main characters into BBEGs and loot pinatas, thank you very much.
Every time a Horde character gets into spotlight, you can bet that something bad is about to happen to them. I was so grateful for Lor'Themar not being in the focus of attention for a long time because I wanted to keep him. Now he is probably the next candidate for execution. :/

If you want Horde story attention for the Alliance, please go on. Enjoy seeing your faction leaders corrupted for no reason whatsoever but to serve as a plot device so the other faction can play the victim card and stay the shiny paragon.

[Rendark]

If you want Horde story attention for the Alliance, please go on. Enjoy seeing your faction leaders corrupted for no reason whatsoever but to serve as a plot device so the other faction can play the victim card and stay the shiny paragon.

Ya really. If what we've had for years now is Horde bias then the Alliance can have all the bias they want.

[geco]

Well I reject any Horde storyline if it revolves around turning our main characters into BBEGs and loot pinatas, thank you very much.
Every time a Horde character gets into spotlight, you can bet that something bad is about to happen to them. I was so grateful for Lor'Themar not being in the focus of attention for a long time because I wanted to keep him. Now he is probably the next candidate for execution. :/

If you want Horde story attention for the Alliance, please go on. Enjoy seeing your faction leaders corrupted for no reason whatsoever but to serve as a plot device so the other faction can play the victim card and stay the shiny paragon.

In truth, the Alliance already had it in Cata. but he was a Pj to forget. And they tried to do it with Maiev. They failed.
But to the subject if it is going to be like a Garrosh 2.0 alliance. I would be quite interested as a story.
Because if you lose a pair of characters but give a lot of background to a few.

If it is a BFA 2.0. It doesn't interest me.

[BrintoSFJ]

The Horde in bfa was broken beyond repair. My takes can fix it.

Nothing of what you say fix anything! You just listed what "you" want! None of it gives a fix to anything related to that so-called "Alliance bias"!

[erifwodahs]

I know the Horde players are generally around 13-16 years old but seriously.

I don't know anyone younger than 21 in my fairly large circle. Stop with this bs attitude - only shows that you are the only one with infantile arguments.

[Accendor]

Here we are in Shadowalnds and still none of the problems the Horde has are fixed.
Alliance has:

better cities
better characters
more development
more zones
better immersion
better world building
and is generally hailed as the cradle of civilisation on Azeroth.

Horde always gets shafted and ends up holding the short end of the stick. If we want to make the game equal we need to give the Horde a huge boost.

Horde needs:

a huge boost in their leader cast.
a new style of architecture for the race who used to be savages.
the remaining parts of the core races to join the playable Horde. In this case the Gurubashi tribe, the Amani tribe, the Grimtotem tribe and the remains of the dark and fel Horde.
being allowed to kill some Alliance heroes so that the blue team suffers real defeats.
do these Blizzard and the game counts as being fixed.

For the Horde! Lok’tar!

Alliance bias lol

[Beloren]

i actually want horde get treated like alliance for once, ie ignored
horde is focused to be fucked, anyone who isn't human is getting light spot to show how better humans are, check gnomes, no one talking about them
I have zero faith in blizzard, i want gnome treatment, just ignore we exist, no more capital to be raided, no more warchief to be loot piniata, no more bad or good or misunderstood or fucking MORALLY GREY characters, blizz ignore us, make next exp purely alliance, make it so nelfs or draenei are evil because they don't suck humans dick good enough, turn IF to a raid capital and make us beat the shit out of Moira for lolz, and forget that horde exist for just 1 exp

rereading this thread, it seems most ppl missing the strangely obvious sign imo, blizz don't favor alliance nor horde, they favor humans massively since ages, u can argue that 2nd spotlight is orcs but even if that is true (which isn't, orcs fell since WoD) they are miles away from humans focus

most alliance players are right if they don't main (or care about) humans, u are ignored, u exist only to show how amazing humans are, when a 16 years old anime boy king teach a 10k years old nelf about patience, u know u exist just to be fucked by humans

indeed, the alliance don't realise the best thing to have happened for them was for them to be ignored. The night elf fans are slowly realising this as more ofcus is turning to them.

We are paying the price for the so called blizzard focus.

[Thage]

Well I reject any Horde storyline if it revolves around turning our main characters into BBEGs and loot pinatas, thank you very much.
Every time a Horde character gets into spotlight, you can bet that something bad is about to happen to them. I was so grateful for Lor'Themar not being in the focus of attention for a long time because I wanted to keep him. Now he is probably the next candidate for execution. :/

If you want Horde story attention for the Alliance, please go on. Enjoy seeing your faction leaders corrupted for no reason whatsoever but to serve as a plot device so the other faction can play the victim card and stay the shiny paragon.

I didn't say any of that, but okay. What I pointed out was that the story has, since Cataclysm, been disproportionately focused around what happens in the Horde with the Alliance there as a reactionary, secondary force. Even the "big fistpump Alliance moments" amount to pushing back a Horde assault or calling a ceasefire, or (in the case of Dazar'Alor) accomplish precisely fuck-all except to strengthen the Horde by winning them more allies.

As far as 'corrupted for no reason whatsoever,' who does that cover? Garrosh broke under the weight of how wildly underqualified he was for the jobs he was given through Thrall's rampant nepotism, itself brought on by Thrall getting nostalgic for the bloodhungry lunatic he adopted as a brother-figure and mentor. Every choice he'd made throughout the Cataclysm and the Pandaren Campaign was done of his own will, and the devs have confirmed numerous times that his honor speech in Stonetalon was the result of a miscommunication/disagreement between Afrasiabi and the rest of the writers on the direction he was headed in. Sylvanas was always cruel and evil, working toward some nebulous goal with the complexity of a childrens' cartoon antagonist, all they retconned was why. Neither of them were, until the devs change their minds and say otherwise, corrupted 'for no reason,' and those are the only two who took direct heel turns as time went by.

None of what you said invalidates my post. All of BFA prior to Visions of N'zoth centered on the Horde storyline with the Alliance there to move the Horde story along. All of MoP from 5.1 to 5.4 was there to move the Horde's storyline along, with the Alliance there as a reactive force for the Horde story to bounce off of. All of Cataclysm 1-60 was about the Horde's blitzkrieg taking large swathes of land with the Alliance reacting.

When's the last time the Alliance had an unambiguous victory that left the Horde reeling, that didn't involve the Alliance playing backup to a Horde rebellion? Meanwhile, the Horde has resounding victories at Theramore and Teldrassil under its belt, and while the Horde easily curbstomped through Ashenvale and Darkshore, the Alliance had to push for every inch at the Undercity and still had to call a full retreat when Sylvanas used it as a trap in an attempt to wipe out Alliance high command. And as I already mentioned, the Alliance siege on Dazar'Alor was repelled and all killing Rastakhan managed to do was push the Zandalari into joining the Horde's war effort, instead of discouraging them from getting involved as was the original intent of the siege.

[baskev]

3 zones? Teldrassil I'll grant you, but the Alliance canonically won both warfronts and to my knowledge still hold Lordaeron.

euuhhh you do know what happend to all the people in darkshore right. And you did play the warfront. How it was partly blighted , camps of death etc.

And yes we still have it. But i would not put it past the alliance leadership to give it back. And even if not. its a blighted land so we can not use it. BUT even if we have it. horde still wins with hight mountain and suramar.
And yes val shara is a alliance heavy zone. But its a druid first zone. you know all the druids running around there.

- - - Updated - - -

I much prefer the horde experience to the alliance. And i think the majority of the playerbase that regularly and esriously plays this game would also agree.. If the alliance was that rosy, most people would be on it.

- - - Updated - - -

Btw, this should be in the general forum, not the lore forum.

yup on the first part.

And the second part. the OP poster/thread starter had some vague questions/remarks in his first post. so not clear where he wants it.

[Ryzeth]

How shocking that OP got banned.

[VladlTutushkin]

3 zones? Teldrassil I'll grant you, but the Alliance canonically won both warfronts and to my knowledge still hold Lordaeron.

Ashenvale is not clarified in lore officially yet.

- - - Updated - - -

There is no "bias", especially "Alliance bias". And many of your points are not only subjective, but also seems to have some nebulous and sometimes completely arbitrary definitions.

Its Erevien from Story Forums who also confessed on Discord that he is officially mentally ill and on medications , so... Yeah.

- - - Updated - - -

ayyy lmao
A Grazrug thread

Move on people, this person isn't interested in your opinion. They are merely roleplaying an angry orc

*Elf. He is super 100% belf fan, you may know him as Erevien and he usually hates on orcs on both Discord and forums.

[Ardenaso]

Yeah, the horde needs a bit more development as do some of the less prominent alliance races but there are only so many hours you can fit in. Blizzard pick one or two characters and then forget about the rest, unfortunately they tend to have significantly more humans and orcs at the forefront.

When was the last time we had some character development for Baine; apart from being kidnapped? I cannot remember who the chief Panda's are supposed to be? Overall, they could do better.

we can get Eitrigg or Nazgrel to rise up or for Drak'thul to return to the Horde to offer his experiences and services

- - - Updated - - -

If you want Horde story attention for the Alliance, please go on. Enjoy seeing your faction leaders corrupted for no reason whatsoever but to serve as a plot device so the other faction can play the victim card and stay the shiny paragon.

to be fair I do think it would have been better if it's the Alliance who was the "bad guys" given their suspecting and xenophobic nature while the entire point of Warcraft 3 was to turn the Horde away from senseless killing, wanton bloodshed and warmongering.

and now I think it's time for the Alliance to be the bad guys, we have Danath Trollbane who is very racist against orcs and trolls; we have Turalyon who seeks to claim all of the Eastern Kingdoms to the Alliance, by force; we have Tyrande; we have Alleria and Vereesa who would definitely support Turalyon and may do a "Purge of Silvermoon"

[Zandalariprelate]

So bring in folks who were hostile to the Horde?

Nah, Silvermoon especially needs to stay well clear of dark and fel Horde.

Don't want colour variations of Troll and don't want to feel like I'm always playing the villain, when I play Blood Elves and Nightborne, who have done what they could to survive under hard times.

Why not play purple elves in the alliance? Silvermoon just need to be razed and elves banned from the game

[Stardrift]

Some innovation in architecture would be good. Those spiky huts and tents got really old, especially compared to stuff like Suramar. It's ridiculous really. Orc/trolls/tauren should catch up with the rest of the world.

Horde out here playing with peepeepoopoo and sticks, while Alliance out here with mechs, airships, trams, navy fleets, space ships, guns, helicopters, god powers, etc

[Candy Cough]

Anyone who says there aint no alliance bias is clearly delusional

Horde might have an edge when it comes to gameplay but story wise alliance is leading lots

We couldn't even kill mekkatorque arguable the most worthless racial leader, no he returned as a gnomish iron man