1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    It isn't really nit-picky. I'm working on the facts. I have my own view of P2W, others have theirs, and there is leeway for an agreement somewhere but then if we flag certain things as P2W, then we have to also identify when it became so.

    And I have 33k posts due to activity and previous moderation tasks.
    Facts demonstrate their own truth. Everything you spew is subjective viewpoints. You "think" they are facts. You do you.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Guns View Post
    Buying a boost to the entry level for an expansion being classified as “pay to win” is asinine and absurd. Pay to win means you pay..to win. Paying to be level 50 is not winning, anything. You’re not getting items that make you powerful, you’re not even paying for progress in the current xpac. The game starts every xpac “at” the current xpac.

    So no, WoW is in no way pay to win.
    By that logic, pay to win doesn't exist. Because there are no games that let you pay money to completely win the game. And that's ACTUALLY asinine.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Oh no, you posted the definition of advantage... which has what exactly to do with the problem? You still haven't explained how the boost gives you an advantage over others.
    I have clearly explained why it's an advantage at least three times. Go back and actually read my posts instead of skimming.

  3. #463
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I'm done, you just want to argue semantics and it's clear you have no interest in speaking about this rationally. Have a nice day.
    Rationally is applying the same rules you state for others to yourself. It is weird how you call being asked to practice what you preach as irrational.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones.
    Well, the only reason you don't live in one is because of all your stone throwing.

  5. #465
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Is WoW Pay 2 Win?
    Most definitely.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I have clearly explained why it's an advantage at least three times. Go back and actually read my posts instead of skimming.
    No, you have not. You have asserted it to be one without giving any actual evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    By that logic, pay to win doesn't exist. Because there are no games that let you pay money to completely win the game. And that's ACTUALLY asinine.
    You do realise that actual P2W games let you use real money to buy things that aren't available otherwise? That's what P2W is. A P2W character is literally stronger than a regular one could possibly be.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Because your examples of it being a disadvantage is your OPINION and isn't anywhere close to fact. I think being able to skip large swaths of content is a huge advantage because I can immediately jump into current content and even easily faceroll older content. Something people who didn't pay for that same boost can't do. So yes, you are perpetually moving the goalposts instead of just saying "It's my opinion that it's not an advantage". Because it IS your opinion and isn't a fact. I have pointed out how it is an advantage BY DEFINITION and you added extra steps to try and disprove it.
    You realize you're using YOUR opinion to say it's an advantage to which others are disagreeing, yet you're trying to say your opinion is a fact while yelling at everyone else saying they're wrong?

  8. #468
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Shouldn't speak of arrogance when you're the one who came into a discussion between me and another poster, ignored almost everything said, and started using flawed arguments to try to debase mine.
    How is it that you are a moderator but don't know how forums work? This is a discussion for everyone involved and not a private message between you and another poster. Lmao. I didn't ignore anything you said because I specifically responded to it. You not liking my responses is not the same as ignoring. Holy crap. Speeding up a rotation, talents, etc all change how you play. So if you are missing stuff you are not learning your end-game rotation and toolkit which is the only class skills that is relevant.

    You learn the core rotation even with a character boost if it is the same. Lol. It does defeat your point because you are not missing out on learning anything. You are the only one that keeps trying to shame others because you are the one the keep trying to claim others are being dishonest, dismissive, or any other argument directed at posters rather then their actual argument.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, you have not. You have asserted it to be one without giving any actual evidence.



    You do realise that actual P2W games let you use real money to buy things that aren't available otherwise? That's what P2W is. A P2W character is literally stronger than a regular one could possibly be.
    Other pay to win games like Black Desert Online offer items in their shop that give things like experience boosts while leveling. How is that ANY different than spending $60 to skip FIFTY LEVELS. I'd say that in that regard, WoW is much more guilty of pay to win than other games.

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You realize you're using YOUR opinion to say it's an advantage to which others are disagreeing, yet you're trying to say your opinion is a fact while yelling at everyone else saying they're wrong?
    I've posted facts about how it's an advantage. You have used your opinion to try and disprove those facts. You say it's not an advantage because it doesn't give you gold or profession levels. That is literally irrelevant. You are still paying to get player power. Adding more stipulations is nothing but you moving goalposts.

  11. #471
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyranis View Post
    Facts demonstrate their own truth. Everything you spew is subjective viewpoints. You "think" they are facts. You do you.
    You were the one stating that the token, an item sold by Blizzard, is Pay2Win because you can acquire gold with it.

    So, I am then reaching out and saying that it would identify the game has having been legally Pay2Win since October 2006 but for a more exclusive customer base as the printing and sales of TCG started there, an item sold on behalf of Blizzard that can help you acquire gold as well.

    That is a fact if we classify the token as P2W, making indirect involvement of Blizzard to be P2W.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The advantage is the levels. Not the old content because you don't pay to have that completed for you. Also having access to every quest coverting to gold provides an advantage over doing it for experience. I don't fail to realize how lucrative old professions skills can still be but I am smart enough to know that what you do while leveling is minimal. And taking extra time to level those professions detracts from experience gain and how quickly you can exploit end game and higher level in lower content.
    You're smart enough to realize...what?
    It's minimal to be able to disenchant every quest item you get? It's minimal to be able to skin every beast you kill? It's minimal to be able to mine/gather every node you see?

    That's what you consider minimal? That sounds more like you just don't care about it while leveling and consider it "minimal" because YOU think it's not important. Has nothing to do with intelligence.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    If we can only bring up things comparable to a level 50 boost why do you keep bring up old professions, gold grinding, rep and everything else that isn't comparable to a level 50 boost? Weird how you can dismiss everything someone else posts. Heroic gear is comparable because it isn't relevant since it isn't the best in the game right? That is the same reason you keep dismiss a level 50 boost as not pay to win. Because it isn't the best level in the game.
    What are you even talking about?

    I bring up old professions and everything because that's what you skip by getting a boost. Yes, you can go back to it, but then you still end up having to spend the time you paid to skip in the end. Even if it's less to you because you're a higher level, it's still additional time. And it's directly related to the boost.

    Your example of gear has nothing to do with it. You get handed pretty awful gear when you boost. You're reaching in the first place to try to compare it to gear, because heroic gear is what you use to get into mythics. You don't use a level 50 boost to get into mythics. It's not comparable at all. You may think it's some great point, but it's pretty flawed because of that.

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Other pay to win games like Black Desert Online offer items in their shop that give things like experience boosts while leveling. How is that ANY different than spending $60 to skip FIFTY LEVELS. I'd say that in that regard, WoW is much more guilty of pay to win than other games.
    And is a level in BDO comparable to one in WoW? 1-50 isn't even a major investment in WoW. Besides, boosts only go to a level at or below where the majority of the userbase already is. Are BDO exp boosts limited to that?

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    And is a level in BDO comparable to one in WoW? 1-50 isn't even a major investment in WoW. Besides, boosts only go to a level at or below where the majority of the userbase already is. Are BDO exp boosts limited to that?
    In your opinion. But that's not the facts. It doesn't matter if YOU think it's trivial. The fact that you can literally skip huge swaths of content is the definition of an advantage.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I've posted facts about how it's an advantage. You have used your opinion to try and disprove those facts. You say it's not an advantage because it doesn't give you gold or profession levels. That is literally irrelevant. You are still paying to get player power. Adding more stipulations is nothing but you moving goalposts.
    The only fact you had was that it lets you skip the time investment.

    And I pointed out how that time investment skip also makes you miss out on quite a bit.


    This is why debating anything on here ultimately ends up as pointless though. You don't want to acknowledge the other side, you just want to be right.

    And before you try to flip that on me, you also ignore the fact that I have on multiple occasions acknowledge that you are right that it lets you skip the time investment. Others have also acknowledge that it lets you skip new players.

    But when confronted with points that are disadvantages, you refuse to actually listen or acknowledge anyone back. It's dishonest.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    You were the one stating that the token, an item sold by Blizzard, is Pay2Win because you can acquire gold with it.

    So, I am then reaching out and saying that it would identify the game has having been legally Pay2Win since October 2006 but for a more exclusive customer base as the printing and sales of TCG started there, an item sold on behalf of Blizzard that can help you acquire gold as well.

    That is a fact if we classify the token as P2W, making indirect involvement of Blizzard to be P2W.
    I read your, grasping at straws, desperately trying to connect the two the first several times. Still not biting.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Rationally is applying the same rules you state for others to yourself. It is weird how you call being asked to practice what you preach as irrational.
    I stated my case clearly, concisely and as thoroughly as I could. You're the one using boring semantic arguments to undermine the purpose of what I'm saying. We don't even fully disagree, you just want to put a stupid fucking asterisk next the word P2W to include level boosts. This is the dumbest form of arguing on the internet so I'm not going to entertain this any longer.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    The only fact you had was that it lets you skip the time investment.

    And I pointed out how that time investment skip also makes you miss out on quite a bit.


    This is why debating anything on here ultimately ends up as pointless though. You don't want to acknowledge the other side, you just want to be right.

    And before you try to flip that on me, you also ignore the fact that I have on multiple occasions acknowledge that you are right that it lets you skip the time investment. Others have also acknowledge that it lets you skip new players.

    But when confronted with points that are disadvantages, you refuse to actually listen or acknowledge anyone back. It's dishonest.
    So because IN YOUR OPINION they're missing out on some things....that somehow makes it not an advantage? Are you serious? I'm not willing to acknowledge you're side of this because you're so blatantly wrong. You are bending over backwards to avoid admitting you're wrong and perpetually moving goalposts. YOU think that not getting that gold is a disadvantage and therefore makes buying the boost not p2w. That's asinine and wrong.

  19. #479
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyranis View Post
    I read your, grasping at straws, desperately trying to connect the two the first several times. Still not biting.
    *Shrugs* "You do you".

    If the token is P2W, then from a legal point, WoW has been P2W since October 2006, whether you like it or not.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    In your opinion. But that's not the facts. It doesn't matter if YOU think it's trivial. The fact that you can literally skip huge swaths of content is the definition of an advantage.
    No, 1-50 not being a major investment is fact. People play this game for hundreds of hours. 1-50 is done in a tiny fraction of that. The boost lets you skip a minor fraction of the game at most, and it still leaves you inferior to people that haven't boosted because they were already at that level. Everybody also gets one for free, so you don't actually have to pay for it.

    It at most gives an advantage to you personally by requiring you to invest less time to be adequate. It doesn't give you an advantage over others, as it would have to be P2W. Winning is more than just not losing.

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