1. #501
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Except the legion fishing artifact is still the best fishing pole overall, so...not really irrelevant since fishing is important for feasts if you want to farm mats. And they're a great source of gold overall.
    No it isn't. You can buy a equal +fishing from vendors in Oribos and has that benefit of boosting bait in shadowlands. The only benefit to the underlight angler is having water walking and fast swimming speeds. Something that can be gained through other means like the fishing raft. And the fixed it in 8.2 that the shark/swim buff is lost on combat.
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  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I literally quoted your line.

    You didn't say recipes. At all.

    And ultimately it doesn't matter even if you did or not, because the point that old professions still have usage was MY point to begin with, so you trying to change "professions" to "Old world recipes" is not only a strawman of my point, but THAT is a goalpost move.

    It's a bit weird how you're literally doing everything rhorle is trying to accuse others of but is ignoring you just because you align with their view, like how you're ignoring that I listed off multiple situations and you're focusing on one to try to dismiss it all.

    People aren't stronger with the boost either because by your OWN LOGIC, level 50 is "obsolete". Mind you, gold is never obsolete so pointing out how much gold you can make in multiple situations is relevant, since it can be directly converted into buying gear.
    I didn't know I had to specify using the word "recipe" but I guess when dealing with someone who only has bull shit semantics, I have to. There is no such thing as an old world professions so I figured you wouldn't immature and try to use semantics. Silly me.

    I'm not ignoring anything. I've pointed out multiple times how you are blatantly wrong and each time, you come up with some bull shit movement of the goalposts. You literally mentioned a Legion fishing pole which can make things EASIER but absolutely no needed to try and justify your comment about level boosts not being an advantage. The mental gymnastics in that alone is insane.

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    No it isn't. You can buy a equal +fishing from vendors in Oribos and has that benefit of boosting bait in shadowlands. The only benefit to the underlight angler is having water walking and fast swimming speeds. Something that can be gained through other means like the fishing raft. And the fixed it in 8.2 that the shark/swim buff is lost on combat.
    Decreased aggro range on top of that. And this does ignore that I listed multiple other profession based situations. So you can chill on saying you're "not ignoring".

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I didn't know I had to specify using the word "recipe" but I guess when dealing with someone who only has bull shit semantics, I have to. There is no such thing as an old world professions so I figured you wouldn't immature and try to use semantics. Silly me.

    I'm not ignoring anything. I've pointed out multiple times how you are blatantly wrong and each time, you come up with some bull shit movement of the goalposts. You literally mentioned a Legion fishing pole which can make things EASIER but absolutely no needed to try and justify your comment about level boosts not being an advantage. The mental gymnastics in that alone is insane.
    So just like a boost makes things "EASIER".

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Decreased aggro range on top of that. And this does ignore that I listed multiple other profession based situations. So you can chill on saying you're "not ignoring".

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    So just like a boost makes things "EASIER".
    No it's nothing like a boost. That is so utterly asinine. Comparing something you can ONLY earn in game to something you can spend REAL MONEY ON that increases player power does nothing but show you have no intention of having an honest discussion about this.

  5. #505
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Decreased aggro range on top of that. And this does ignore that I listed multiple other profession based situations. So you can chill on saying you're "not ignoring".
    Lol. You are the one that keeps saying I am ignoring things so perhaps you should chill if you don't want responses that point out where you are wrong. It doesn't ignore that you listed other situations. It simply specifically address some of the situations you listed. I have also generally addressed all of the things you've listed.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    yeah, thing is i dont mind if someone wants to think wow is p2w even though i disagree, but when someone says its p2w since token i grind my teeth, as selling gold/boosts/BOE items (especialy for twinks) was present since vanila... so either its not p2w or it always been...
    personaly, i think its not p2w as you cant buy advantage that cant be gained via regular play
    There is difference if you as developer sopport selling tokens for real money to get gold to get boost and farming gold by yourself by playin game to get boost and buying gold from 3rd party website to get gold which isnt legal. Just becouse there was few players back in older game buying gold from farmers for real money then propably got banned few days later doesnt mean its same thing what we have now on retail.

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    I am not ignore it. Why is everything that people disagree on equal to ignoring? It isn't an advantage of level manually because you get to rank up old professions. It isn't an advantage to gaining gold because experience converts to gold. It isn't an advantage on mats because being of a higher level has a higher advantage in older content.
    You are though. Do you not see how your response didn't actually acknowledge it? You just went "well max level can do it faster so" and then dismissed the fact that it's still valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The intelligence I am talking about is my own. I am smart enough to know that you don't make much headway towards professions while leveling. The rate at which you gain experience often out paces the rate at which you gain materials. It is better now with Chromie time since you can stay in an entire expansion 1-50 but that fundamental concept still exists. Also you can't take issue with direct comments to the poster after you've done it several times before. You set the tone and I am just following it. Don't be a hypocrite.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So it does seem like intelligence plays a factor if you can't see how out leveling content would be better for leveling old professions.
    You're telling me that isn't a jab at someone else, really? "If you can't see it, then you're not as smart as me" is exactly how that comes across. Say what you will, but everything I've said has been about your points, never about you as a person or about your intelligence.


    It only is not relevant because you have no actual argument against it. If a boost to 50 isn't buying power because level 50 is only the start of the new expansion then buying item level 200 gear isn't buying power because it is only the start of raid gear. That is what happens when you bring arbitrary rules to what is and is not buying power. Those rules get complicated the more your try to rationalize why something isn't what it clearly is. Paying to catch up is still paying for power. The same as buying Heroic, or Mythic, gear would be if Blizzard offered it right now
    Except that's your own slippery slope argument of it. I pointed out many times why I considered that to be false and all you keep doing is saying "your OPINION though" while dismissing what I said, and then when I call you out on ignoring, you go "You can't just keep saying people are ignoring you and dismiss them!".

    You aren't paying to win just paying to catch up. Right? Yet I'm pretty sure from your posts you would consider selling Mythic raid gear, at this time in a patch, would be pay to win. Weird right? Your nail in the coffin isn't one. I've already addressed it multiple times. Skipping content is not a disadvantage in WoW. Everything you listed as an advantage for manual leveling can be countered by an advantage gained by being at the level cap.
    So you get to make up my opinion for me?

    No, buying a boost for raid isn't "P2W". I don't consider it as such because the amount of people willing to actually sink THAT much money even to buy tokens to do so are those doing it out of desperation. And I can get equal gear through other means, like M+, and still outperform them most likely.

    I've said from the start, P2W is just that. Winning. No one can do anything against you because you paid to win. It's as simple as that.

    Does WoW have pay to advantage? I could see why people would think that. But mind you, my first post was saying my opinion, which instantly got argued. To which was I a bit snippy, sure. Mostly because I stated how I felt and that was it, but suddenly I'm being argued how I'm "wrong" to feel that way. So I tried to discuss back and was just constantly accused of "being wrong" rather than being listened to.

    I didn't insult your intelligence. If you felt insulted that you didn't recognize how experience gain far out levels profession gain that isn't my fault. But I also said that after you acted all arrogant. This isn't your thread. You weren't having a private conversation. Why is it that a moderator, who enforces the rules, doesn't know how threads work? Besides it can be said that you are the one who jumped in since I was actively responding to people before you were today. And if jumping in to conversations are bad why did you jump to it yourself?
    Again, you are missing out on something key here. I didn't respond to anyone. I was the first one to be quoted, and I only responded back because of that. So your idea that I shouldn't "jump in myself to a conversation" is bunk.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...2#post53214102

    For proof. I never claimed to be having a private conversation, I merely pointed out it's weird that you're attacking me for-
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The only one dishonestly debating here is yourself. Instead of debating you keep looking for ways to out right dismiss everything a person has stated. Why even bother entering into the discussion if you are just going to be arrogant?
    When you're the one who actually entered the discussion between posters to be arrogant.

    You literally can't accept being challenge and are starting to have a full on mental breakdown. The only thing you haven't done at this point is abuse moderator privileges.
    And this is where I stop, because the idea that you have to again, attack a person directly rather than what they're saying is just silly and doesn't lean towards any actual discussion. It's part of why I stopped trying to discuss things here, and as you can see again, even in this case I just said my opinion and was dragged back in for having the "wrong" opinion. And then you find that valuable to attack my mental state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    No it's nothing like a boost. That is so utterly asinine. Comparing something you can ONLY earn in game to something you can spend REAL MONEY ON that increases player power does nothing but show you have no intention of having an honest discussion about this.
    I'm only pointing your own logic back at you, and pointing out why I disagree. A boost simply makes it "easier" to play the game, it doesn't give an actual advantage compared to those who spent the time leveling.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You are though. Do you not see how your response didn't actually acknowledge it? You just went "well max level can do it faster so" and then dismissed the fact that it's still valid.





    You're telling me that isn't a jab at someone else, really? "If you can't see it, then you're not as smart as me" is exactly how that comes across. Say what you will, but everything I've said has been about your points, never about you as a person or about your intelligence.




    Except that's your own slippery slope argument of it. I pointed out many times why I considered that to be false and all you keep doing is saying "your OPINION though" while dismissing what I said, and then when I call you out on ignoring, you go "You can't just keep saying people are ignoring you and dismiss them!".



    So you get to make up my opinion for me?

    No, buying a boost for raid isn't "P2W". I don't consider it as such because the amount of people willing to actually sink THAT much money even to buy tokens to do so are those doing it out of desperation. And I can get equal gear through other means, like M+, and still outperform them most likely.

    I've said from the start, P2W is just that. Winning. No one can do anything against you because you paid to win. It's as simple as that.

    Does WoW have pay to advantage? I could see why people would think that. But mind you, my first post was saying my opinion, which instantly got argued. To which was I a bit snippy, sure. Mostly because I stated how I felt and that was it, but suddenly I'm being argued how I'm "wrong" to feel that way. So I tried to discuss back and was just constantly accused of "being wrong" rather than being listened to.



    Again, you are missing out on something key here. I didn't respond to anyone. I was the first one to be quoted, and I only responded back because of that. So your idea that I shouldn't "jump in myself to a conversation" is bunk.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...2#post53214102

    For proof. I never claimed to be having a private conversation, I merely pointed out it's weird that you're attacking me for-


    When you're the one who actually entered the discussion between posters to be arrogant.



    And this is where I stop, because the idea that you have to again, attack a person directly rather than what they're saying is just silly and doesn't lean towards any actual discussion. It's part of why I stopped trying to discuss things here, and as you can see again, even in this case I just said my opinion and was dragged back in for having the "wrong" opinion. And then you find that valuable to attack my mental state.

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    I'm only pointing your own logic back at you, and pointing out why I disagree. A boost simply makes it "easier" to play the game, it doesn't give an actual advantage compared to those who spent the time leveling.
    Your comparison was a blatant false equivalency. You compared a fishing pole that you can earn in game and can be replicated by other items to the ability to pay $60 levels to skip a huge chunk of content. Your mental gymnastics are just aggravating now.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Your comparison was a blatant false equivalency. You compared a fishing pole that you can earn in game and can be replicated by other items to the ability to pay $60 levels to skip a huge chunk of content. Your mental gymnastics are just aggravating now.
    You skip huge chunks of content by leveling through Chromie time anyway.

    I said more than the fishing pole, but you don't seem to want to hear anything I say, so okay.

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You skip huge chunks of content by leveling through Chromie time anyway.

    I said more than the fishing pole, but you don't seem to want to hear anything I say, so okay.
    Holy shit I don't even know how to respond anymore. You're not skipping content through Chromie. you STILL have to level, regardless of where you're doing it. It's clear you're not willing to be honest and mature about this.

  11. #511
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Make up your mind, tree!
    Most definitely, Maybe.

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Holy shit I don't even know how to respond anymore. You're not skipping content through Chromie. you STILL have to level, regardless of where you're doing it. It's clear you're not willing to be honest and mature about this.
    You pick an expansion to skip literally all the other ones.

    I don't get what you consider skipping content then honestly. It seems more like you're considering the time investment "content". But that doesn't mean the actual expansions aren't content

  13. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias1337 View Post
    There is difference if you as developer sopport selling tokens for real money to get gold to get boost and farming gold by yourself by playin game to get boost and buying gold from 3rd party website to get gold which isnt legal. Just becouse there was few players back in older game buying gold from farmers for real money then propably got banned few days later doesnt mean its same thing what we have now on retail.
    You make a point, and if by that point, we can date that WoW became P2W in October 2006, and not because of the token.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You pick an expansion to skip literally all the other ones.

    I don't get what you consider skipping content then honestly. It seems more like you're considering the time investment "content". But that doesn't mean the actual expansions aren't content
    You really can't possibly be this dense. Choosing what content to level in is NOT the same thing as paying money to not have to level in ANY of them except the newest content. You are literally skipping content by buying a level boost. That's why it's an advantage and why it's a form of p2w.

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    You really can't possibly be this dense. Choosing what content to level in is NOT the same thing as paying money to not have to level in ANY of them except the newest content. You are literally skipping content by buying a level boost. That's why it's an advantage and why it's a form of p2w.
    I pointed out how you're skipping content either way.
    Your form of skipping content seems to be "it has to be all or nothing".

    But if you pick to level in BfA, you're still skipping all the other expansions of content.
    That's why Chromie time was made, so people don't have to squeeze through every expansion to get to 50.

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I pointed out how you're skipping content either way.
    Your form of skipping content seems to be "it has to be all or nothing".

    But if you pick to level in BfA, you're still skipping all the other expansions of content.
    That's why Chromie time was made, so people don't have to squeeze through every expansion to get to 50.
    Your form of skipping content isn't truly skipping content. It's just choosing a different leveling path. Paying for a boost is ACTUALLY skipping content. You don't still have to level with the boost like you do when choosing Chromie time. you're purposely being obtuse.

  17. #517
    Epic! Oakshana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I pointed out how you're skipping content either way.
    Your form of skipping content seems to be "it has to be all or nothing".

    But if you pick to level in BfA, you're still skipping all the other expansions of content.
    That's why Chromie time was made, so people don't have to squeeze through every expansion to get to 50.
    Chromie time was made to simplify the leveling process, since they compressed the necessary level for endgame from 120 to 60, and you already didn't need to spend time in more than one or two zones per expansion content to outlevel it. They didn't make Chromie time for the effect of skipping content, they did it to make your leveling experience from 1 to 50 a more cohesive story while you leveled.

    Seriously, when 120 was still level cap, as soon as you hit 80, you did MAYBE Hyjal and a part of one other zone before you hit 85 and then moved to Pandaria. Where you then hit the cap for that content shortly into the Valley of the Four Winds, before moving on to WoD. How you think Chromie time is skipping content any more than we technically already were is mind boggling to say the least.

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    So because you declared that skipping 50 levels worth of content isn't an advantage, that makes it so. Just stop. Just because YOU think it's minor doesn't make it minor. I've played the game since Wrath and even I think skipping 50 levels worth of content is pretty fucking significant. You are paying for an advantage over players who will be spending hours to level through that content because they didn't buy the boost.

    Just stop.
    And you claiming the opposite does? No, of course it doesn't. Don't project your own failings so hard.

    Besides, that's not the argument why it isn't an advantage. That would be that the boost doesn't actually get you ahead. Even boosted, the character is still inferior. You're not getting an advantage over others, because it's trivial for others to be better than your boosted char.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Your form of skipping content isn't truly skipping content. It's just choosing a different leveling path. Paying for a boost is ACTUALLY skipping content. You don't still have to level with the boost like you do when choosing Chromie time. you're purposely being obtuse.
    You're still skipping every other expansion. Skipping is skipping, it doesn't matter why. You really shouldn't call others obtuse what with your constant reliance on it.

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    And you claiming the opposite does? No, of course it doesn't. Don't project your own failings so hard.

    Besides, that's not the argument why it isn't an advantage. That would be that the boost doesn't actually get you ahead. Even boosted, the character is still inferior. You're not getting an advantage over others, because it's trivial for others to be better than your boosted char.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You're still skipping every other expansion. Skipping is skipping, it doesn't matter why. You really shouldn't call others obtuse what with your constant reliance on it.
    Lmfao the character is NOT inferior. You are also being purposely obtuse. You're incapable of admitting you're wrong so you just say asinine comments like this. You pay $60 and are moved to the level needed to get into new content, AND you're given gear, AND you're given several inventory bags. Ya know....things other people need to grind for and need to pay gold for.

    I'm not being obtuse. Character boosts is actively skipping EVERYTHING up until a certain point. Whereas choosing your expansion isn't skipping. It's just giving you an option of where you want to level. You still have to put time into leveling, something the person who bought the character boost doesn't need to do. Don't accuse others of being obtuse then proceed to actively be obtuse in the same post.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Lmfao the character is NOT inferior. You are also being purposely obtuse. You're incapable of admitting you're wrong so you just say asinine comments like this. You pay $60 and are moved to the level needed to get into new content, AND you're given gear, AND you're given several inventory bags. Ya know....things other people need to grind for and need to pay gold for.
    Things other people have had for months, you mean. That's your problem here; you're introducing unspoken limits that render your claims meaningless when removed by implicitly only comparing to a new character. But your competition isn't just new characters. Most of it is already existing characters that have all of that stuff, usually way better than the crappy boosted gear. You don't really need to grind for any of that, either. Better than boosted gear is handed out like candy by the game.

    And of course choosing the expansion is skipping. You're skipping all other expansions.

    None of your arguments work when compared to the real world because you keep focusing on your cherry picked sharply limited scenarios where you're right, but those aren't the only ones that matter.

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