I think gear should only come from drops.

[Crimson Spears]

Yeah - I mean...what people think and consider a superior MMO has been out in the open for so long. I wonder why nobody picks this up? (Obviously this is a rhetorical question, because the people designing those games might have a clue that what vocal ppl on forums demand is not what the unwashed masses actually want to play)

I have a bit of a problem with your claim of: "what I want is what wow was before it changed". Gear has always dropped from other sources than bosses. We had epic BoEs from World drops while levelling (I made a pretty penny from those in Vanilla) and even epic BoEs ever since Vanilla from raid trash. We sold MC clears for gold in 2005 and tokens as a source to buy gear have been a thing since TBC. Sure, retail has over the years expanded on those system. But the system was never as pure as you wish it would be IMHO.

And I am okay with that. I am also okay with you finding that strange. As I said...i am totally content to gather my anima, do my covenant campaign and in the end have 7 alts at ilv 180-200 from content that totally does not affect folks like you who are in the raiding scene. What does it even matter to you? You will never see me in your groups or guilds.

But you have your purity approach and wish for it to become the be all and end all....and I respect that. (at the same time I am happy that it will likely never happen)

I mean... at the very least can we agree there is a damn slight difference between a few crafted pieces maybe one or two useful world boes and maybe if you squint a rep item compared to the cluster fuck that is now?

I am often told I want to take away parts of people's gameplay. I sincerely don't... I just want to not give a fuck about it.

If we must have alternative progression just let that progression auto complete on the highest difficulty. Have a plus 20 drop a capped level conduit... have soul ash drop from mythic plus along with renowned.

Just that... thats all I want. To be allowed to fuck off and do what I enjoy in my own little corner without being dragged into what for me is utterly mindless content that im so disengaged with I am afk listening to an audio book spamming my rotation.

[Glorious Leader]

I mean... at the very least can we agree there is a damn slight difference between a few crafted pieces maybe one or two useful world boes and maybe if you squint a rep item compared to the cluster fuck that is now?

I am often told I want to take away parts of people's gameplay. I sincerely don't... I just want to not give a fuck about it.

If we must have alternative progression just let that progression auto complete on the highest difficulty. Have a plus 20 drop a capped level conduit... have soul ash drop from mythic plus along with renowned.

Just that... thats all I want. To be allowed to fuck off and do what I enjoy in my own little corner without being dragged into what for me is utterly mindless content that im so disengaged with I am afk listening to an audio book spamming my rotation.

Or just isolate you and the mythic raid community in general. No gear from mythic raids, stat templates per encounter, shit you could get your own mythic realm servers you pay a fee for COMPLETELY isolated from every other aspect of the game just so you don't ever feel like you have to do anything but log onto raid.

I dont think this will actually appeal to very many people even mythic raiders but its the only way to fulfill what you want without fucking over everybody else. Which is really just saying mythic raiding is a plague and it needs to die. Because the rest of the game cannot afford to continually be balanced around it. The lepers can have their colony.

[Stardrift]

You're going to piss off a lot of Twitter users saying that

[Makabreska]

Just remember that you are the minority.

Noone besides the world first guilds (Because they enjoy the race) Would care about raiding if there were no rewards from killing bosses

The Bosses has always been a means to an end in order to get gear.

Well, there are rewards. They are called Ahead of the Curve and Cutting Edge. Do you think all those guilds are progressing on Danny only for his loot table?

[cuafpr]

It was great and it felt great to get gear again. More akin to TBC. Same as TBC, SL has catch up gear through vendors, which I think is ok.

Gearing up through vendor through progression, NOT gOoD!

No, SL gearing is horrible... WotLK had gearing on point and why it changed is beyond drops + badges for gear is the way to go. That you know no matter eventually you will get that upgrade via badge gear. Badge gear wasn't even the best but was something for alts, and when RNG screwed you. SL gearing is why I barely log in, it's just point to play for hours and get nothing for it, and others have done the same. I've never heard anything positive about SL gearing till your post.

[Thage]

PvP in my mind is best done without stat differences... just give everyone a template glads test out ( no way in hell can blizz be trusted to run those numbers) then go at it for cosmetic rewards having skill and very small differences in rng be the deciding factors ( like crit procs for example)

To an extent. However, what we have now in SL is one of the few good decisions they made looking at it long-term. PvP players still want/need gear for other activities (and gear rewards feel good to obtain in a combat-centric MMORPG), and progressing up the ladder for better and better gear provides incentive for players who aren't inspired by titles/mounts/etc.

With the deterministic gearing path in PvP, PvPers can target slots based on their needs individually and as a group, while the deterministic rewards ensure that, while those who grind harder longer have an early gear advantage and ascend the ladder sooner, everyone is on an even gear level once the midseason really gets underway, and this is more pronounced for long-running Seasons like Shadowlands S1.

[Depakote]

The point of raids is not to get gear. It's too kill mechanically difficult bosses. If you're raiding to get gear to kill bosses to get gear, you're doing it wrong. Never understood why people chase gear as the end goal.

The gear is used to clear the content you want to do, it's a means to an end. Not the end itself.

Edit: To say "gear" once more.

Perhaps it's both. You get gear from the bosses you kill, it's always been that way at least until the invention of Mythic+ which cut into the raiding scene a bit more than I think devs were expecting. At this point it does more harm to the game than good.

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It is fine to look for that kind of reward system andI truly hope you eventually find a game that offers all the things you dislike about WoW.
I mean, just off the top of my head in the last two days you have serious problems with:

-WoW being p2w
-the gearing system

That is a whopping part of they game, because it basically affects how you gain power on your character and in every area you participate in to get gear (of which you hate the system) you play with people who potentially "paid to win".

That said I don't raid or do mythic + and I was totally fine with playing through the Covenant campaign, gathering a bit of anima on the side and upgrade my gear ilv 200 that way. It is suitable for the content I do and I doubt it affects the way YOU play (since you mention ilv 226).

I don't want to enforce my style of playing and my understanding of game design on you, so I expect the same respect from others. If that is not possible, I can at least rest assured that Blizzard won't be listening to you. Not in the way that you want the game to be.




People asked for a progression system outside raids after mythic 25 / 10 was changed to mythic with a fixed site. In the way of "mythic with 20 ppl is too much too handle - mythic 10 is removed. I want to be able to progress with just a few friends"

Like it or not, Mythic+ was Blizzard's way of listening.

No, Mythic+ was Blizzard's way of cashing in on the esports craze. It solved a problem that didn't exist.

[Depakote]

Can't agree with you about the badges.
Nothing exciting about getting them and coming to the vendor knowing what you're getting next.

Ya because the unpredictable loot pinata of fate is so much more fun! /s

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Interesting take. Especially in the light of this forum telling me that especially for WoW there is no e-sport craze, nobody watches the shit, nobody cares, it is boring ...yada yada yada.

So...I stick to the version of mythic+ being an alternate way to gear with fewer ppl.

It is boring, no one cares about eports but for now it's a way to make a quick buck.

[Belloc]

The main point of doing raids has become moot.

So, to you, the main point of doing raids is loot? Here I was thinking that the main point of doing raids was working as a team to overcome challenges.

I don't know about you, but the thrill of finishing the final boss of a raid has always been far more of a rush than getting an upgrade.

[Orange Joe]

Just remember that you are the minority.

Noone besides the world first guilds (Because they enjoy the race) Would care about raiding if there were no rewards from killing bosses

The Bosses has always been a means to an end in order to get gear.

So what the issue then? If you don't like to raid you can slowly get gear from other sources. If you like to raid you can get gear from raiding and other sources.


win/win

[Jastall]

Let's remove gear from raids then, and let's see what happens.

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Classic loot + WotLK-like badges = win.

Really can't agree, looting can't be too random but a strict BiS list to be filled with tokens and currencies sounds like a shopping trip to me, not a fun game.

And remove gear, or hell any and all power rewards, from -anything- and see what happens. Let's not pretend raids are unique in this regard.

[username993720]

Bagdes offered steady measured progression for all players and became an alternate advancement albeit a limited one. Moving away from this was arguably the dumbest mistake they've made.

It was so monotonous and boring. "Oh look, i got 174 badges. I can buy those gloves now. Time to start anew for another piece of gear that is part of the set i'm aiming for".

If anything, buying should be with money. Not these random-ass currencies they come up with every expansion.

Ya because the unpredictable loot pinata of fate is so much more fun! /s

When you had to roll for that and compete with others, it was rather challenging.

[Depakote]

So what the issue then? If you don't like to raid you can slowly get gear from other sources. If you like to raid you can get gear from raiding and other sources.


win/win

If you don't like to raid or pvp then perhaps WoW isn't the game for you and that's ok. There are many other games to play in this world.

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It was so monotonous and boring. "Oh look, i got 174 badges. I can buy those gloves now. Time to start anew for another piece of gear that is part of the set i'm aiming for".

If anything, buying should be with money. Not these random-ass currencies they come up with every expansion.



When you had to roll for that and compete with others, it was rather challenging.

No it wasn't.

[Orange Joe]

If you don't like to raid or pvp then perhaps WoW isn't the game for you and that's ok. There are many other games to play in this world.

Isn't that for Blizzard to decide? The same blizzard who has been adding many other types of content so people don't have to raid if they don't want?


Perhap wow isn't the game you think it is, and thats ok

[Soon-TM]

And remove gear, or hell any and all power rewards, from -anything- and see what happens. Let's not pretend raids are unique in this regard.

Of course, it was a reductio ad absurdum addressed to all those pseudo hardcore raiders, who want gear as much as the next player but claim to be doing it "for the challenge", "for teamwork", etc.

[Nalam the Venom]

Well, there are rewards. They are called Ahead of the Curve and Cutting Edge. Do you think all those guilds are progressing on Danny only for his loot table?

That's a really "bizarre" thing to want.

I'd say they are only doing it to not lose their raid spot aka the source of gear.

low attendance can lead to guild kick.

Or at least that's my thought process.

I have Cutting edge for several raids, Pre-BFA but not because i want them.. but because the raids are the source for gear and it's a hazzle to find a new guild if you refuse to do Mythic progression

[Glorious Leader]

Of course, it was a reductio ad absurdum addressed to all those pseudo hardcore raiders, who want gear as much as the next player but claim to be doing it "for the challenge", "for teamwork", etc.

The very same people who insist other content shouldn't offer any compelling reward and can't see the problem with that.

[Jonnusthegreat]

I think from a gameplay perspective, non-drop loot is important. Also from a roleplay perspective, drop-only loot would be shitty (IE you'll never get your bow until the archer boss drops it). That's the main reason why non-drop loot is in every game. You'll never see mages killing archer bosses, etc. It's not smart in any form of any game.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I would glady return to pre-Legion times in terms of where you got loot from, thanks.

[khazmodan]

Would be fine if we can offset RNG by being able to keep running bosses like we do in Diablo, but in WoW we can't because we have weekly lockouts.

A currency is the best way to deal with RNG.

Absolutely right, having a currency to buy gear gives the players a way to feel like they have some control over the gear they get. Some RNG is fine but when RNG is the only way to get it, the frustration as you fall behind your teammates and get benched, kills the motivation to play the game.