I think gear should only come from drops.

[Doffen]

I mean, maybe if you were getting gear actually.

But even then, at the time of TBC people were used to the trickle of gear. That's what they considered normal.

When you shift from people getting gear at a constant rate to a trickle, you're not reintroducing them to a feeling of excitement to see loot, you're just causing them frustration because they're used to seeing more loot consistently.

For some players sure. But it's not a general rule. I thought it would suck, but it was something I sorely missed. That they increased the raid to drop one more item for 20 players was good. And I still think that how it works in raid is a great thing.

It's quite obvious that we got too much gear from BfA and Legion, it went overboard. Maybe it was rough in start of Shadowlands, but there is no need to increase it further than the one change for the raids.

My issue is with the vendor though, and the vendor only. But they had to change something to provide those who do m+ a more consistant way to get increased item level gear. I work myself around it as I described in an earlier post. I just don't participate in it. I get my gear from the raid, basic m+ and TGV. More than enough.

No, SL gearing is horrible... WotLK had gearing on point and why it changed is beyond drops + badges for gear is the way to go. That you know no matter eventually you will get that upgrade via badge gear. Badge gear wasn't even the best but was something for alts, and when RNG screwed you. SL gearing is why I barely log in, it's just point to play for hours and get nothing for it, and others have done the same. I've never heard anything positive about SL gearing till your post.

Then you have only read those posts that fits your narrative. People who are satisified generally don't go to forum to complain that they have a good time. It's basic human behavior.

And, gearing in WotLK had massive complaints. How you got Tier gear from vendor was a big no no and how easy you got gear wasn't without criticism.

[Crimson Spears]

Interesting take. Especially in the light of this forum telling me that for WoW there is no e-sport craze, nobody watches the shit, nobody cares, it is boring ...yada yada yada.

So...I stick to the version of mythic+ being an alternate way to gear with fewer ppl.

Nah it was born out of a desire for an esport much like sc2s ToS or warcrafts reforged your custom maps are ours now no more dotas.

It was made purely out of incompetent greed.

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Well... if it is boring and no one cares...yet it makes a quick buck....sounds like magic money making to me....you know if you can make money from ppl who don't even care and shit out boring content?

Sometimes the things that amaze me the most is how contractionary you folks are trying to find a fault with the game and it is "oh...it is all shit and that is how it makes money"..like...WTF?

I don't think it makes any money unless you count the toy sales from that one year. It doesn't even get enough views for youtube ads.

[Soon-TM]

I don't think it makes any money unless you count the toy sales from that one year. It doesn't even get enough views for youtube ads.

LMFAO so true. I think it takes a special kind of talent to be chasing the Holy Grial of esports for years... Only to fail every. Single. Damn. Time Even OW, Blizzard's esport pet, seems to be pretty much in maintenance mode these days. Inb4 "OW2", which chances are that it's going to be like the Necro addon for D3 - if OW players are lucky, that is.

[cuafpr]

For some players sure. But it's not a general rule. I thought it would suck, but it was something I sorely missed. That they increased the raid to drop one more item for 20 players was good. And I still think that how it works in raid is a great thing.

It's quite obvious that we got too much gear from BfA and Legion, it went overboard. Maybe it was rough in start of Shadowlands, but there is no need to increase it further than the one change for the raids.

My issue is with the vendor though, and the vendor only. But they had to change something to provide those who do m+ a more consistant way to get increased item level gear. I work myself around it as I described in an earlier post. I just don't participate in it. I get my gear from the raid, basic m+ and TGV. More than enough.


Then you have only read those posts that fits your narrative. People who are satisified generally don't go to forum to complain that they have a good time. It's basic human behavior.

And, gearing in WotLK had massive complaints. How you got Tier gear from vendor was a big no no and how easy you got gear wasn't without criticism.

I'm well aware happy people post less, same goes with product reviews satisfied customers are much less likely to write a review than those that are unhappy. Rose tinted glasses aside I don't recall to many complaints outside of 25m gear being so much better than 10m gear, and few complaints about valor tokens but no system will make everyone happy. in my personal opinion SL gearing is trash and the worst wow has ever had, hours of running content and not a single upgrade killed it for me, with the nail in the coffin being the "new" valor system that only applies to M+ gear, part of the game I detest, but understand its popularity

[Crimson Spears]

LMFAO so true. I think it takes a special kind of talent to be chasing the Holy Grial of esports for years... Only to fail every. Single. Damn. Time Even OW, Blizzard's esport pet, seems to be pretty much in maintenance mode these days. Inb4 "OW2", which chances are that it's going to be like the Necro addon for D3 - if OW players are lucky, that is.

I think I might just be slowly aging out of a genre... everything seems centered around loot boxes these days. I am enjoying tbc but to be frank I don't know for how much longer that will be. Nothing is wrong with the content its still great its just I beat the game once already and pvp still doesn't appeal to me.

The more I learn about 9.1 the less excited I am to play it. I think the raid and dungeons will still be good but honestly the idea of grinding out conduits and torghast again sickens me. It is to the point I am considering leaving for final fantasy the problem with that game for me at least is it is simply to easy. I beat the games savage and ultimate raids without to much difficulty. The game is fine and I would even recommend it but I don't know... it feels like games designed around my tastes are just on their way out.

[cparle87]

Can't agree with you about the badges.
Nothing exciting about getting them and coming to the vendor knowing what you're getting next.

And the flood of complaints when the gear isn't perfectly itemized to every person's spec. We had 1-2 pieces per slot from a vendor usually.

[Argorwal]

I do like the ease of doing one mythic +15 or capping 1850+mmr in the arena with the boys and being as geared as I need to be for the content I do... but it 100% takes away from the MMO aspect, My friends and I all use to raid together and it was a nice get together every week. Now we literally don't have to raid to stay relevant and log on far less.

They are stuck between a rock and a hard place because some players LOVE that they can gear without schedules and raiding and others hate it and feel it ruins the game.

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Absolutely right, having a currency to buy gear gives the players a way to feel like they have some control over the gear they get. Some RNG is fine but when RNG is the only way to get it, the frustration as you fall behind your teammates and get benched, kills the motivation to play the game.

If you’re getting benched because of your vault RNG, then it was already coming.

[kaminaris]

What I mean by that is no weekly chest, no currency, no rating, just drops from bosses.

I feel like weekly cellphone game style rewards simply allow blizzard a way to cheapy lengthen the gearing process with soft time locks. If you get a week 226 you already earned the item just have the item drop off the boss.

I don't know maybe I am just getting older and can't stomach grinding anymore but I would just like a direct loot system something entirely driven by what you can do difficulty wise not how long you spend in various systems.

Might not work for pvp though part of me wonders if simply having items drop every 3-5 games at their rating wouldn't work as well?

Yeah it should only come from the drops but not the way you imagine it.

First problem is that gear is templated
Second problem is that gear is mostly soulbound.
Third problem is that a weekly bingo lottery exists.
Fourth problem is that crafted gear is literal garbage
Fifth problem is ridiculously low number of secondary stats

All in all, it feels like insult to players intelligence. Making gear drop only won't fix this (could make it even worse), since there are much bigger issues with entire gear system.

[Hellobolis]

only drops is a bit extreme.

should at least keep gear from reputations and professions. and not every quest is suited to having a item drop instead of being the quest reward.

i also think there should be some bad luck protection, but if that means something like bonus rolls instead of the vault or currency then sure why not. personally always liked the bi-weekly quest we had in WoD, so i wouldn't mind keeping the vault but making it a 2 week instead of 1 week thing either.

[Alvito]

What I mean by that is no weekly chest, no currency, no rating, just drops from bosses.

I feel like weekly cellphone game style rewards simply allow blizzard a way to cheapy lengthen the gearing process with soft time locks. If you get a week 226 you already earned the item just have the item drop off the boss.

I don't know maybe I am just getting older and can't stomach grinding anymore but I would just like a direct loot system something entirely driven by what you can do difficulty wise not how long you spend in various systems.

Might not work for pvp though part of me wonders if simply having items drop every 3-5 games at their rating wouldn't work as well?

So no pvp gear and no reason to donworld content. Even vanilla had badge or token gear.

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The main point of doing raids has become moot.

Lack luster raid gear plays a part in this too

[Evolixe]

Gear is a tool, a means to an end. Not a goal in itself.

I feel like everyone that thinks otherwise probably doesn't raid on a very high level and that mentality is part of the reason why

[Glorious Leader]

And, gearing in WotLK had massive complaints. How you got Tier gear from vendor was a big no no and how easy you got gear wasn't without criticism.

This was actually quite fucking brilliant on Blizzards part and also happens to coincide with the games peak in many aspects. Moving away from this design was arguable the single dumbest thing they've ever done to be honest.

Butt hurt shit heels on forums complained that casuals got gear. Too. Fucking. Bad. This needs to return in a big way.

[beanman12345]

Honestly, it's an RPG that if gear only comes from raids, then everyone else that supposed to be(at least on paper) subscribed for 2 years till next expansion is just stuck in permanent limbo while their character doesn't get any stronger unless they commit themselves to a raid schedule of some sort, doesn't sound like a very good design or business strategy to me. Now I'm not saying this couldn't be a profitable business strategy, It very well could be, in theory, but it would be a very niche consumer and would require a lot of reworks, otherwise, you look very weak next to CoD and Candy Crush.

[Depakote]

Isn't that for Blizzard to decide? The same blizzard who has been adding many other types of content so people don't have to raid if they don't want?

No not really.

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Honestly, it's an RPG that if gear only comes from raids, then everyone else that supposed to be(at least on paper) subscribed for 2 years till next expansion is just stuck in permanent limbo while their character doesn't get any stronger unless they commit themselves to a raid schedule of some sort, doesn't sound like a very good design or business strategy to me. Now I'm not saying this couldn't be a profitable business strategy, It very well could be, in theory, but it would be a very niche consumer and would require a lot of reworks, otherwise, you look very weak next to CoD and Candy Crush.

Tell me, when did the game have over 12 million subscribers? Was it in with the expansion that brought Mythic+ or was it Wrath?

[beanman12345]

No not really.

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Tell me, when did the game have over 12 million subscribers? Was it in with the expansion that brought Mythic+ or was it Wrath?

It was Wrath, which nicely proves my point.

[Glorious Leader]

No not really.

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Tell me, when did the game have over 12 million subscribers? Was it in with the expansion that brought Mythic+ or was it Wrath?

It was the expansion where I could buy tier pieces from a vendor with currency I got in a dungeon...

[Makabreska]

That's a really "bizarre" thing to want.

I'd say they are only doing it to not lose their raid spot aka the source of gear.

low attendance can lead to guild kick.

Or at least that's my thought process.

I have Cutting edge for several raids, Pre-BFA but not because i want them.. but because the raids are the source for gear and it's a hazzle to find a new guild if you refuse to do Mythic progression

I think it was forgotten that WoW is still a video game, and in it's core you beat the game for the satisfaction of it and to put your name in High Score for bragging rights (similar to speed runners just going for better and better times in other games). Nothing really tangible. Sure, the gear is there as one of the rewards, but it's just a means to an end. What other explanation for all those players participating in CE chase, especially if it's an end boss? Nothing really bizzare about it.

[Lochton]

It was the expansion where I could buy tier pieces from a vendor with currency I got in a dungeon...

I do miss that..

[Makabreska]

I do miss that..

I even forgot how itemization worked in all expansions pre-Legion. Damn I play this game for so long.

[aceperson]

i think a currency system to earn decent catchup gear is fine. it wasn't an issue in wrath (and that was when blizz started devaluing epics). otherwise, i completely agree. world quests, dailies, reps, and more. all these things have been seen as required grinds for years. wrath had the shoulder enchantments, cata had bis pre-raid gear, pandaland had a horrible time since every rep gave a good epic piece, wod was the one exception because you had to farm apexis crystals and the gear wasn't very good, legion had rep gear, and bfa had rep gear as well. every single time loot is put into a place where it isn't earned by skill, it just causes issues.