"Sorry we are closed nobody wants to work here anymore due to government handouts"

[Masark]

But that doesn't mean the applicant has to accept that offer.

Actually, it often does. Refusing an offer generally gets your unemployment benefits yanked, especially when you consider the self-harming red state governments.

[Jtbrig7390]

Ultimately again, it is up to the employee to accept the offer or not.

There is no choice when your options are to accept slave wages or roll over and die...

[Egomaniac]

Yes, but the range that they offer for those positions is based on the industry average, typically. They'll obviously try and get away with as little as possible. But if a position had a range of say $50k -$60k, they won't offer $30k, and certainly not minimum wage. They'll offer as close to the $50k that they think they can get away with, true, and admittedly they might try to go lower than that but not by much and expect the applicant to take the job offer seriously. But that doesn't mean the applicant has to accept that offer. Ultimately again, it is up to the employee to accept the offer or not.

As I said before, businesses are greedy, they're not stupid (usually).

The problem with an "industry average" is that it is an average that is set by the industry. The industry that will , as you put it, obviously try and get away with as little as possible.

[PC2]

There is no choice when your options are to accept slave wages or roll over and die...

There is a choice. Those people should choose to work for a "slave wage" temporarily while they increase their knowledge and marketable skills up to a level that would allow them to get a better job. A non-slave wage job. At any given point in time people should get the best job they can get, even if they feel they are underpaid.

[Glorious Leader]

There is a choice. Those people should choose to work for a "slave wage" temporarily while they increase their knowledge and marketable skills up to a level that would allow them to get a better job. A non-slave wage job. At any given point in time people should get the best job they can get, even if they feel they are underpaid.

Okay so this is progress because you've admitted that some jobs are actually utter slave wagery. Now none of what you said here explains the mechanism by which one can work for a slave wage and support ones self (let alone any dependants) and simultaneously upgrade their skill set but I'm sure you'll tell me some bs story about some dude you knew who worked 3 jobs to afford his community college degree.

Oh and none of that is a choice btw any more than its a choice to give the mugger your wallet

[Endus]

There is a choice. Those people should choose to work for a "slave wage" temporarily while they increase their knowledge and marketable skills up to a level that would allow them to get a better job. A non-slave wage job. At any given point in time people should get the best job they can get, even if they feel they are underpaid.

How are they affording that training while making a slave wage?

All your arguments boil down to "just, like, stop being poor". It's asinine.

[Katchii]

This blatantly ignores economic reality and present the decision to work for a particular employer as if it were an actual honest choice. Its not. You have to be a psychopath to think being robbed at gun point is a choice.

It is still a choice.

I agree with you that it's often a terrible, unfair and exploited choice, but no potential employer is literally holding a gun to the applicant's head and forcing them to take the job. The applicant still has to accept the job of their own free will.

Actually, it often does. Refusing an offer generally gets your unemployment benefits yanked, especially when you consider the self-harming red state governments.

That has nothing to do with the employer though, and is still a choice the applicant is making. Take the job or lose those benefits. Again, I agree that it's often a terribly unfair choice, but the employee still has to willingly accept the job.

There is no choice when your options are to accept slave wages or roll over and die...

Just because it's a shitty choice, doesn't mean it's NOT a choice.

The problem with an "industry average" is that it is an average that is set by the industry. The industry that will , as you put it, obviously try and get away with as little as possible.

The industry average is very heavily influenced by the industry, yes, but it's also influenced by the people who take those jobs. For the kinds of positions I'm talking about here, employees do have SOME bargaining power and can negotiate a higher compensation and therefore affect the industry average. I won't pretend that minimum wage workers have any bargaining power here, because they don't.

All that said, this is why I advocate for things like increased minimum wage, UBI, universal health care, etc... because it would mean the choice the employee's have to make would be much more balanced instead of the terribly unfair one they have now. They wouldn't have to decide between a shitty job with shitty pay to barely survive or ....what essentially amounts to probably not surviving.

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There is a choice. Those people should choose to work for a "slave wage" temporarily while they increase their knowledge and marketable skills up to a level that would allow them to get a better job. A non-slave wage job. At any given point in time people should get the best job they can get, even if they feel they are underpaid.

First, you're assuming people working slave wages can afford training, either monetarily or time wise, which is a ridiculous assumption. Second, you're acting like people in this situation have the pick of any one of the slave wage jobs available, and are able to be selective about which one they take, which is garbage.

[Jtbrig7390]

Just because it's a shitty choice, doesn't mean it's NOT a choice.

If one of your options is death there is no choice......

[kamuimac]

How are they affording that training while making a slave wage?

All your arguments boil down to "just, like, stop being poor". It's asinine.

by saving money and investing it into their own education

instead spending it on stuff they dont need in order to impress people who dont care about them .

[Glorious Leader]

Just because it's a shitty choice, doesn't mean it's NOT a choice.

That's exactly what it means. Again the gunman holding you at gun point and saying your life or your wallet is also technically offering you a choice. No rational sane person actually accepts that this is actually a choice. You have to be either a psychopath or a right wing libertarian to consider that a choice.

[PC2]

Now none of what you said here explains the mechanism by which one can work for a slave wage and support ones self (let alone any dependants) and simultaneously upgrade their skill set but I'm sure you'll tell me some bs story about some dude you knew who worked 3 jobs to afford his community college degree.

How are they affording that training while making a slave wage?

lol... how the fuck do you save money for an education if you don't have anything left at the end of the month?

Knowledge is nearly free on the internet. People don't need a piece of paper from a formal institution.

Everyone can learn more, and improve, and gain more skills every day regardless of how poor they are. Simply keep learning how to solve more and harder problems and you'll get better and better jobs overtime as your skillset increases. There is infinite opportunity in the economy going forward.

Maybe people want UBI and they can want whatever they want, but the idea that people can't make it unless the government gives them more stuff is just a myth.

[kamuimac]

lol... how the fuck do you save money for an education if you don't have anything left at the end of the month?

to answer this - you do it easily -you simply work more.

if your 40 hours per week is not enough for you then work 60 hours a week .

if working 60 hours per week is not enough ? move to another city / emigrate since your state/country is to poor to live there.

with US passport it shouldnt be that hard

hint - thats what hundreds of milions of people all over the world do .

why should US citizens be special in this regard.

[Glorious Leader]

Knowledge is nearly free on the internet. People don't need a piece of paper from a formal institution.

Everyone can learn more, and improve, and gain more skills every day regardless of how poor they are. Simply keep learning how to solve more and harder problems and you'll get better and better jobs overtime as your skillset increases. There is infinite opportunity in the economy going forward.

Maybe people want UBI and they can want whatever they want, but the idea that people can't make it unless the government gives them more stuff is just a myth.

This is so deluded that frankly its hard to know where to begin. Most employers above entry level positions seek candidates with qualifications usually from an institute of higher learning. Free knowledge from the internet doesn't qualify.

[Endus]

by saving money and investing it into their own education

instead spending it on stuff they dont need in order to impress people who dont care about them .

You don't have any comprehension of poverty, then.

We're talking people who can't afford to put three meals on the table consistently. They don't have money to save.

Knowledge is nearly free on the internet. People don't need a piece of paper from a formal institution.

If you want to apply that knowledge to a job? You absolutely need that piece of paper from a formal institution.

Try becoming a doctor without an MD, or a plumber without certification. You won't just not find employers willing to hire you, if you try to freelance, you will be charged with fraud if you get reported.

Also, you've ignored some critical factors. Namely, that the Internet is not free. That equipment to access the internet is not free. That time to invest in doing so is not free. And so on.

Maybe people want UBI and they can want whatever they want, but the idea that people can't make it unless the government gives them more stuff is just a myth.

A cursory examination of human history demonstrates that you are completely wrong about this. You're denying basic reality at this point. If you were right, poverty wouldn't exist, historically. It does, ergo, you're wrong.

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to answer this - you do it easily -you simply work more.

if your 40 hours per week is not enough for you then work 60 hours a week .

if working 60 hours per week is not enough ? move to another city / emigrate since your state/country is to poor to live there.

with US passport it shouldnt be that hard

hint - thats what hundreds of milions of people all over the world do .

why should US citizens be special in this regard.

Why the hell would any other country take a US citizen's application for immigration, when said US citizen has no employment and can't support themselves?

Your application would be flatly denied here in Canada, at least. US citizens aren't a "win" for other countries just by virtue of being American.

[PC2]

This is so deluded that frankly its hard to know where to begin. Most employers above entry level positions seek candidates with qualifications usually from an institute of higher learning. Free knowledge from the internet doesn't qualify.

I couldn't care less about resume requirements. If I can do a particular job then I'll prove to the employer that I have more merit than the other cookie cutter applicants. Society makes fake rules about what you "officially" need or don't need. Nobody should care about fake rules and fake requirements.

[uuuhname]

I couldn't care less about resume requirements. If I can do a particular job then I'll prove to the employer that I have more merit than the other cookie cutter applicants. Society makes fake rules about what you "officially" need or don't need. Nobody should care about fake rules and fake requirements.

bruh, the the point is they won't even look past your application unless you meet their (to be fair arbitrary) requirements. no amount of chipper go getter attitude is going to get past that for most people.

[Shadowferal]

I couldn't care less about resume requirements. If I can do a particular job then I'll prove to the employer that I have more merit than the other cookie cutter applicants. Society makes fake rules about what you "officially" need or don't need. Nobody should care about fake rules and fake requirements.

Just more proof of a near total lack of life experience.
You can't even go to a temp agency, where most companies will go to for workers that are the focus here, and the first thing an agency wants is a resume.

[Endus]

I couldn't care less about resume requirements. If I can do a particular job then I'll prove to the employer that I have more merit than the other cookie cutter applicants. Society makes fake rules about what you "officially" need or don't need. Nobody should care about fake rules and fake requirements.

If you knew anything about hiring, literally anything, you'd know that lacking necessary credentials just gets your application shitcanned without a callback. You'd never get any chance to "prove" what merit you have, because the employer has 50 resumes that do have the credentials they need and they won't waste their time with yours.

This isn't even new: that's been standard hiring practice for decades.

[Glorious Leader]

I couldn't care less about resume requirements. If I can do a particular job then I'll prove to the employer that I have more merit than the other cookie cutter applicants. Society makes fake rules about what you "officially" need or don't need. Nobody should care about fake rules and fake requirements.

This is so utterly out of touch with reality that one can only wonder if it's a person replying or an ill programmed bot. I'll address the bots talking point just in case any actual humans feel this way. While the bot might not care about "fake rules and fake requirements" the employer certainly does. They're not going to give the bot an opportunity to "prove to the employer that i have more merit" if they don't already meet the qualifications. In fact that's literally why almost any hiring offers state a list of qualifications right from the get go. That's why I say this must be a bot because if you ever applied for a job you would have had this experience. It isn't "society" it's literally the employer listing the required qualifications for an applicant. Again this is so basic.

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If you knew anything about hiring, literally anything, you'd know that lacking necessary credentials just gets your application shitcanned without a callback. You'd never get any chance to "prove" what merit you have, because the employer has 50 resumes that do have the credentials they need and they won't waste their time with yours.

This isn't even new: that's been standard hiring practice for decades.

Again this is literally the most just basic part of finding a job. Even a fucking child would know this. Even entry level bullshit positions will require a certain level of education. Like even just a box that says level of education check highschool.

[Endus]

Again this is literally the most just basic part of finding a job. Even a fucking child would know this. Even entry level bullshit positions will require a certain level of education. Like even just a box that says level of education check highschool.

"Oh, I don't need a high school diploma, or even a GED. You can just trust me because I used Google a lot so I know stuff."

Like, who the fuck would ever accept that in an interview?

It's so clueless it practically has to be deliberate dishonesty.