New item level cap in Tazavesh makes it dead on arrival for many mains

[Jastall]

that is true but its also true that blizz should just give up what we want some times

They do that always, it's just that while players are good at knowing what they don't like, they're not that good at knowing what they actually want instead. See everyone and their grandma wanting AP gone so that they're not "forced" to do content anymore and then turning around to say Shadowlands has no content because there's no longer an infinite power source to farm and once you're done gearing you're, well, done. Not everyone thinks or said that obviously, but among those influencers that can read the room and try to direct the conversation for views? That's totally a thing, and only one example.

[thedingleberry]

We already are in the longest content draught for a first patch ever and it will still take a while for 9.1 to arrive. When it finally arrives, one of the big features will be completely meaningless for many main characters, because it offers no upgrades for them.
Why exclude a large portion of the playerbase from this content? It's not like the alternatives are abundant.

I love how the elitists come out immediately when fortune does not go their way, but when others complain, they act like it's not a problem. There are likely alot more players out there that are not 226 than ones that are, so this is actually a great change because it's a nice catch-up for those players. You can just continue to have your vault freebies and just enjoy the dungeon in 9.2 when it becomes part of M+. Otherwise, just run it for the fun of it and quit complaining. It's a game after all.

[thunderdragon2]

They do that always, it's just that while players are good at knowing what they don't like, they're not that good at knowing what they actually want instead. See everyone and their grandma wanting AP gone so that they're not "forced" to do content anymore and then turning around to say Shadowlands has no content because there's no longer an infinite power source to farm and once you're done gearing you're, well, done. Not everyone thinks or said that obviously, but among those influencers that can read the room and try to direct the conversation for views? That's totally a thing, and only one example.

yeh i disliked the ap grind, i dont mind anima but i dislike this iteration of world quests this time around, there is only a hand full of them i like, for example there is 1 in bastion where you have to jump form flower to flower i dislike that because t tend to fall right through the flowers often, i like the ones that i can deal with quickly for the callings like the shooting ones or the other 2 flight school ones. im surprised we haven't seen anything similar to the kirin tor or tortolan wqs i find them very fun.

personally im out of content as have collected almost every mog set on all my toons,
i got almost every soloable mount
im not good enough at at pvp to make it worth while wasting some1 else's time time to help me geat enough rating to gear
the dungeons are already getting boring for me there is only 2 that i love mists and dos
as for raiding my guild gave up at 6% on sludge mythic dute lack of attendance during exam season.

so basicly all im doing now is try to get my alts full 220 or higher gear for 9.1.

personally shadow lands for a 1st patch isn't as bad as every1 says it is but i needs alot added to it

for example more virality in wqs, the mega dungeon help and more stuff to do out in the world, besides the normal patch material atm SL is a 6/10 for me depending on how 9.1 goes that would either go up or down

[aceperson]

maybe i'm just in a LOT of bubble communities but i've seen the sentiment that SL is worse than wod a lot. i see SL is good a little less than that, and that SL is worse than BFA almost not at all.

[Jastall]

yeh i disliked the ap grind, i dont mind anima but i dislike this iteration of world quests this time around, there is only a hand full of them i like, for example there is 1 in bastion where you have to jump form flower to flower i dislike that because t tend to fall right through the flowers often, i like the ones that i can deal with quickly for the callings like the shooting ones or the other 2 flight school ones. im surprised we haven't seen anything similar to the kirin tor or tortolan wqs i find them very fun.

personally im out of content as have collected almost every mog set on all my toons,
i got almost every soloable mount
im not good enough at at pvp to make it worth while wasting some1 else's time time to help me geat enough rating to gear
the dungeons are already getting boring for me there is only 2 that i love mists and dos
as for raiding my guild gave up at 6% on sludge mythic dute lack of attendance during exam season.

so basicly all im doing now is try to get my alts full 220 or higher gear for 9.1.

personally shadow lands for a 1st patch isn't as bad as every1 says it is but i needs alot added to it

for example more virality in wqs, the mega dungeon help and more stuff to do out in the world, besides the normal patch material atm SL is a 6/10 for me depending on how 9.1 goes that would either go up or down

Oh Shadowlands has the world WQs of any iteration, no arguments here, I totally ignore them and I'm also basically down to doing a Heroic clear, 4 M+ dungeons and maybe run some old raids per week. Given that we're at the tail end of a patch that is longer than usual due in part to unforeseen circumstances, I don't mind too much.

[cparle87]

I have played IMO quite actively throughout the expansion, I have 4 lvl 60 characters with maxed renowns and finished covenant storyline and atleast 1 legendary item, I’ve geared all of them above 200 ilvl, yet I have zero 226 items x)
Mythic 10 achievement is my best so far. No boosting and no pvp. I shall call myself a hipster from now on since i’m in the minority now muahaha

Pretty much same for me. Sitting at ~218 now. Got my 235 leggos, a couple 220ish from a couple high keys I did, rest 213 from Nathria, and 207 head/shoulders cause we still haven't got SLG/Sire reliably holding me back.

[ohwell]

which is exackly why it should have at least 233 itlv - so that people have a reason to do it.

atm its meaningless dead content on arrival

Except it isn't.... the majority do not have mythic raid ilvl right now or even remotely close to that. The majority will have upgrades there for at least the first few weeks.

Nathria normal dropped 200 while baseline mythics dropped 187. 226 is perfectly fine.

[Revamp Man]

1. It has some BiS items Pre sanctum which is what the case will be because the raid will be gated

2. 210 ilvl made it dead already unless you wanted to grind for over half the patch for valor upgrades for a dungeon that you don’t have in the m+ rotation

3. Hard mode likely has the higher ilvl drop just like Mechagon

[Zyky]

I did read it, which is why I specified PvE. PvP is no longer a consideration because of the trinket 2set.

What are you even going on about, we were talking about the fucking beam trinket and it's usefulness LAST EXPANSION. We're not talking about garbage shadowlands shit. So no I doubt you did read it.

[Aphrel]

If you make the megadungeon too hard, people will complain.
If you make the megadungeon loot too good, people will complain.
If you make the megadungeon accessible and good for alts/new players, the wannabe elitists will complain.
If you make the megadungeon only really reward the mounts and be a challenge without "good epix", people will complain.

Honestly - Blizzard can't win on this one ...

One easy fix, release teh mega dungeons m+ version at the same time. Content for everyone.

- - - Updated - - -

At Nathria, Normal/Heroic Raid loot is between 200-220.
Tazavesh loot is at 226.
Casual players, the majority, are usually around Normal/Heroic raid loot.

Tazavesh is maybe out for Mythic Raiders, but they're not the majority here.

I guess that sucks for Mythic Raiders if they wanted to grind pre-raid...
... but not all Mythic Raiders do, some want to just go in with last tier's gear.

So, do Mythic Raiders want to grind, or don't they?
Seems people seem to disagree about this lately. Not surprising.

The gear in Tazavesh I think is mostly catch-up.
If you're missing loot or haven't been around in a while, you can catch up.
It's not meant to replace for everyone, least of all Mythic Raiders.

Last Tier Mythic Raid loot is kind of meant to be used going into next tier. It's kind of why it's there.
If you never needed Mythic Raid loot to continue into next tiers, people wouldn't grind it.
Instead, Mythic raiders would stop immediately once final boss would be dead and say, "eh, it'll be fine, they'll gear us up in next zone."
There's a reason Mythic Raiders at the high end generally grind out their full BiS --
-- So they can go into next Tier fully prepared. Without having to Catch Up.
Which is what Tazavesh gear is. Catch-up. For those who didn't grind.

You have to make a choice - grind in last tier, or grind in Tazavesh.
Tazavesh is useful to catch up for casual players.
But for Mythic Raiders the expectation of last tier grind is more prevalent.
That's the culture. "Be prepared. For anything, at any cost." Mythic Raiding.
Whether you like it or not, you'd have to change everyone's mentality of Mythic Raiding to adjust this.
And I think if they could change how everyone felt about Mythic Raiding at this point, they'd be rushing at the chance.

Anyway, if they upped Tazavesh loot, it'd make next Tier loot less good and also make Mythic Raiders have to grind before next raid more, so some there would complain.

Be careful what you wish for.

Tbh, ignore everyone who complains about having to do content. We are here to play the game afterall. The opinion that the game should be designed so that one can be competetive in either pvp/m+/mythic raids while doing only that and not touching other parts of teh game is just stupid.


Content delivered should IMO appeal to everyone, not just alts or newly dinged players. It shoudlnt be considerd catchup, it should be considered brand new and exciting. The new carrot on a stick.

[Revamp Man]

Okay...I admit I am lost here. wowhead say ilv reward is 184, a german site says it is 210 (I linked both) a poster replying here said the rewards are 226.

So what is it? I am sure 226 is not rewarded by normal raiding?
Hopefully somebody can once and for all clear this up. Until then...I agree...it would be ok if the new 5 man mega dungeon would reward gear equivalent to current normal raid difficulty.

It’s 226

Sanctum norm is 226

- - - Updated - - -

At Nathria, Normal/Heroic Raid loot is between 200-220.
Tazavesh loot is at 226.
Casual players, the majority, are usually around Normal/Heroic raid loot.

Tazavesh is maybe out for Mythic Raiders, but they're not the majority here.

I guess that sucks for Mythic Raiders if they wanted to grind pre-raid...
... but not all Mythic Raiders do, some want to just go in with last tier's gear.

So, do Mythic Raiders want to grind, or don't they?
Seems people seem to disagree about this lately. Not surprising.

The gear in Tazavesh I think is mostly catch-up.
If you're missing loot or haven't been around in a while, you can catch up.
It's not meant to replace for everyone, least of all Mythic Raiders.

Last Tier Mythic Raid loot is kind of meant to be used going into next tier. It's kind of why it's there.
If you never needed Mythic Raid loot to continue into next tiers, people wouldn't grind it.
Instead, Mythic raiders would stop immediately once final boss would be dead and say, "eh, it'll be fine, they'll gear us up in next zone."
There's a reason Mythic Raiders at the high end generally grind out their full BiS --
-- So they can go into next Tier fully prepared. Without having to Catch Up.
Which is what Tazavesh gear is. Catch-up. For those who didn't grind.

You have to make a choice - grind in last tier, or grind in Tazavesh.
Tazavesh is useful to catch up for casual players.
But for Mythic Raiders the expectation of last tier grind is more prevalent.
That's the culture. "Be prepared. For anything, at any cost." Mythic Raiding.
Whether you like it or not, you'd have to change everyone's mentality of Mythic Raiding to adjust this.
And I think if they could change how everyone felt about Mythic Raiding at this point, they'd be rushing at the chance.

Anyway, if they upped Tazavesh loot, it'd make next Tier loot less good and also make Mythic Raiders have to grind before next raid more, so some there would complain.

Be careful what you wish for.

So the focus on ilvl is what caused this issue to pop up back in WoD with brf


True 226 ilvl is the same as mythic raid currently so mythic raiders won’t really see a big ilvl increase if they see one at all

They will however see possible stat upgrades and possible trinket upgrades along with some gear effects

The hard mode will also have better loot and mythic raiders will be clearing that

[Stardrift]

It's an M0. I'd say the ilvl is too high for M0. Way too high.

[ohwell]

I love how the elitists come out immediately when fortune does not go their way, but when others complain, they act like it's not a problem. There are likely alot more players out there that are not 226 than ones that are, so this is actually a great change because it's a nice catch-up for those players. You can just continue to have your vault freebies and just enjoy the dungeon in 9.2 when it becomes part of M+. Otherwise, just run it for the fun of it and quit complaining. It's a game after all.

Not sure where you're getting "elitist" from as the person you're quoting has nothing to do with it and is just someone trying to get a higher ilvl out of it when if they were actually a mythic raider they'd be starting in heroic anyway and not bothering with the new dungeon except for cosmetics. If anything the OP is a greedy self proclaimed casual trying to nickel and dime more ilvls out.

[GreatNameForSmurfingExTee]

Sorry, I am not exactly sure what backup do you need here, could you elaborate?.

Easy, you said
*many main characters
*large portion of the playerbase

Now I want a source for that. I'd say, just about 5-10% of the players got flat 226.

Even IF every main got more than 226, they got alts, you know? New Players, you know? Returning players, you know?

"but I assume that 87200, while not being the majority of course, IS a significant part of the player"...

You just assume things. Presenting feelings as facts.


Know what? I got 10/10 Mythic. A few toons sitting at 220+. But I'll still go in there. Funny right? This won't exclude me. It won't be dead on arrival for me.

Again. You just assume things and take your feelings as ultimate facts.

[thunderdragon2]

It's an M0. I'd say the ilvl is too high for M0. Way too high.

any lower and people would only redo it for chance of them getting the mount

[Accendor]

Easy, you said
*many main characters
*large portion of the playerbase

Now I want a source for that. I'd say, just about 5-10% of the players got flat 226.

Even IF every main got more than 226, they got alts, you know? New Players, you know? Returning players, you know?

"but I assume that 87200, while not being the majority of course, IS a significant part of the player"...

You just assume things. Presenting feelings as facts.

Ok, I see now, you just want to troll. Fair enough.

- - - Updated - - -

I love how the elitists come out immediately when fortune does not go their way, but when others complain, they act like it's not a problem. There are likely alot more players out there that are not 226 than ones that are, so this is actually a great change because it's a nice catch-up for those players. You can just continue to have your vault freebies and just enjoy the dungeon in 9.2 when it becomes part of M+. Otherwise, just run it for the fun of it and quit complaining. It's a game after all.

I am not entirely sure you understand the concept here - you are aware that it would still be a catchup if the provided loot was 233 instead of 226, yes?
This would not give the bad bad elitist hardcore raiders an advantage.
You people always turn this discussion in a direction that makes it sound like somebody wants to take something away from you - thats not the case, really.

Also just to be clear here: M+ and a mega dungeon (especially in the first 2 weeks) are two vastly different playing experiences. Why take one away from a portion of the playerbase when it would hurt nobody to simply NOT do it?

- - - Updated - - -

question, what item level is available form there? as my lowest toon currently is 216 and increasing slowly

226 /tenchar

[Azerate]

Every mythic Raider or at least halfway serious m+ player is at least 224 at this point. That is a large fraction of the playerbase. Is it the biggest? Most likely not, but I never claimed that.

No, it's not. And if you genuinely think that and aren't trolling, I don't even know what to tell you.

I am not entirely sure you understand the concept here - you are aware that it would still be a catchup if the provided loot was 233 instead of 226, yes?

If it was 233 it wouldn't be catch up, because almost no one currently owns 233 ilvl items as these only drop from the 2 final mythic bosses and highest pvp ratings.

[GreatNameForSmurfingExTee]

Ok, I see now, you just want to troll. Fair enough.

Asking for sources is trolling? Alright. Stay mad Kiddo. Keep lying, selling feelings as facts. Your opinion is the only valid. Got it.

Go buy a boost if you want welfare gear. I gladly sell you full clear castle on mythic or KSM. For you, I'll make a special price because you really need help.

[Fenrys]

A plain mythic offering normal level gear sounds about right. For many it will just be a fun experience, or a challenge to complete on Hard mode, and that's ok. Its a bit of misdirection to discuss how many players have full 226 by now. That's not really the point; its whether the reward is proportional to the difficulty, and from previous mega dungeons, it would seem to hit that point.

It also provides valuable catch-up for alts and will eventually be part of M+. Its hard to take the point that it is DoA when it looks like it achieves its aim perfectly. Is normal mode of the next raid DoA because it doesn't offer upgrades to those who have full mythic? Of course not. It does what it is supposed to do; act as an entry level challenge for organised raiding.

[trapmaster]

If you make the megadungeon too hard, people will complain.
If you make the megadungeon loot too good, people will complain.
If you make the megadungeon accessible and good for alts/new players, the wannabe elitists will complain.
If you make the megadungeon only really reward the mounts and be a challenge without "good epix", people will complain.

Honestly - Blizzard can't win on this one ...

Yes they can, they just simply ignore and continue what they are doing. People will complain and continue to moan/bitch about it about their Pixels and worrying their special snowflakes status on their account. Honestly, It's just a fucking game mate. Nothing lasts forever.