Did we just get a Dark Ranger skill mega buffed?

[Swnem]

Yes I did.

Facts:
1 - Sylvanas is a Dark Ranger.
2 - In the video below we see Sylvanas (a Dark Hunger) fighting like... a Dark Ranger.
3 - Literally none of skills we see are present in Hunters today.



If I have an undead Hunter and "Dark Rangers are just undead Hunters"... I ask you:

Where's my teleport skill ??
Where's my Mind Control skill ??
Where's my dagger throwing ??
Where is my AOE skill that applies silence ??
Where are my arrows with shadow damage ??
Where are ALL my possible Banshee powers ??

Oh you still running around with that one? I thought someone already told you.

Teleport? On the mage blink.
Mind control? On a priest.
Dagger throwing? On a rogue.
AoE skill with silence? On a druid.
Arrows with shadow damage? On a hunter.

Banshee is not a class, it's a race. A hero in HOTS can represent a hero and in part a class. But, it is clear Blizz is saying that it isn't gonna be it's own class in WoW. Time to accept.

[TheRevenantHero]

Oh you still running around with that one? I thought someone already told you.

Teleport? On the mage blink.
Mind control? On a priest.
Dagger throwing? On a rogue.
AoE skill with silence? On a druid.
Arrows with shadow damage? On a hunter.

Banshee is not a class, it's a race. A hero in HOTS can represent a hero and in part a class. But, it is clear Blizz is saying that it isn't gonna be it's own class in WoW. Time to accept.

Banshee isn't even a race either. It's more of a template. They're just undead elf spirits. But you're 100% correct. This guy refuses to accept that dark rangers outside of Sylvanas don't have ANY banshee powers. And he continues to use HotS as a way to prove his point despite it being a wholly different game.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Why do you claim they're different? What's the difference? "You can visit and see one god, you cannot with the other" sounds not only arbitrary to me, but also a meaningless distinction.

Different roll culturally different powers different basis of there powers.

and if you really can't see the different between going off of blind faith that has no limits which you can use to justify any thing as long as you believe in it and an actauly god you can go chat with and can give you advice that I don't even know what to say other then your just being willfully obtuse to avoid admitting there not alike.

Neither did Garrosh, or even the Orgrimmar grunts but that doesn't stop them from being warriors.

Ok now give some Paladin examples you know the people who in the lore are defined by picking up heavy weapons and armor along with there priestly training?

These two boldened statements of yours contradict each other something fierce. First you say "they have no concept other than raised rangers" then immediately follow that in the very next paragraph with "I'm not ignoring anything". I'll re-quote myself, putting in bold what you're ignoring:

here Ill quote my self as well.

So no then? they have no further lore just like I stated and start and end with being undead rangers who work/worked for sylvanas. Because a vague description about how they disrupt enemy lines Isn't lore unless you can point to some where detailing how they actually do so.

but here lets make up some fanfic that's what you wanted right? by Manipulating opponents they meant using misdirect, my sowing Dissension they meant getting a hunter pet to taunt, oh dang it looks like dark rangers fall into hunters. sure is a shame they have no further lore to make them apart.

[TheRevenantHero]

Why do you claim they're different? What's the difference? "You can visit and see one god, you cannot with the other" sounds not only arbitrary to me, but also a meaningless distinction.


Neither did Garrosh, or even the Orgrimmar grunts but that doesn't stop them from being warriors.


These two boldened statements of yours contradict each other something fierce. First you say "they have no concept other than raised rangers" then immediately follow that in the very next paragraph with "I'm not ignoring anything". I'll re-quote myself, putting in bold what you're ignoring:

You are using a quote from the wowpedia article in the most asinine way. It's not something that is unique to dark rangers. ANYONE is capable of being conniving and sowing dissension. Dark rangers just focus on it more than others. It's not a fucking trait unique to dark rangers AT ALL. And since that is your ONLY justification, it further cements that dark rangers have absolutely nothing that separates them from hunters.

[Ielenia]

Different roll culturally different powers different basis of there powers.

and if you really can't see the different between going off of blind faith that has no limits which you can use to justify any thing as long as you believe in it and an actauly god you can go chat with and can give you advice that I don't even know what to say other then your just being willfully obtuse to avoid admitting there not alike.

The origin of the power is meaningless, if the end result is the same. The tauren sunwalkers are not druids, or even "druid-like".

Ok now give some Paladin examples you know the people who in the lore are defined by picking up heavy weapons and armor along with there priestly training?

What's the relevance? You said "zandalari prelates don't wear much armor" as if it would disqualify them of being more paladin-like than druid-like. My counter to that would be that your claim would indicate that Garrosh and the Orgrimmar guards are not warriors because they don't wear heavy armor.

here Ill quote my self as well.

but here lets make up some fanfic that's what you wanted right? by Manipulating opponents they meant using the misdirect, my sowing Dissension they meant getting a hunter pet to taunt, oh dang it looks like dark rangers fall into hunters. sure is a shame they have no further lore to make them apart.

And your quote is still wrong. Your claim "no further lore other than being undead and working for Sylvanas" is just plain wrong, as it is disproven by the WoWpedia's article about the dark rangers.

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You are using a quote from the wowpedia article in the most asinine way. It's not something that is unique to dark rangers. ANYONE is capable of being conniving and sowing dissension. Dark rangers just focus on it more than others. It's not a fucking trait unique to dark rangers AT ALL.

Why do we have rogues if "anyone is capable of being stealthy and able to pick someone's pocket"? Why have warlocks, if "anyone is capable of casting fel magic and summon demons"? This argument of yours is no better than saying "ability X is just ability Y with effect Z".

And since that is your ONLY justification,

It's not. And if you truly believe that is "my only justification", it tells me you haven't been paying attention.

[TheRevenantHero]

The origin of the power is meaningless, if the end result is the same. The tauren sunwalkers are not druids, or even "druid-like".


What's the relevance? You said "zandalari prelates don't wear much armor" as if it would disqualify them of being more paladin-like than druid-like. My counter to that would be that your claim would indicate that Garrosh and the Orgrimmar guards are not warriors because they don't wear heavy armor.


And your quote is still wrong. Your claim "no further lore other than being undead and working for Sylvanas" is just plain wrong, as it is disproven by the WoWpedia's article about the dark rangers.

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Why do we have rogues if "anyone is capable of being stealthy and able to pick someone's pocket"? Why have warlocks, if "anyone is capable of casting fel magic and summon demons"? This argument of yours is no better than saying "ability X is just ability Y with effect Z".


It's not. And if you truly believe that is "my only justification", it tells me you haven't been paying attention.

Ah more utterly asinine comments. As per usual, you only read parts of what I say. I specifically said dark rangers just focus on it more than other people. They don't have some special power or magic that lets them accomplish this. So comparing it to a warlock's ability to cast spells is especially idiotic.

And it IS your only justification. Since you literally can't bring forward a point that is legitimate so you just repeat that same two sentences from the wowpedia ad nauseam. The wowpedia article doesn't prove shit like you claim. Daemos is 100% correct. There is no lore that separates hunters and dark rangers outside of the fact that 99% of dark rangers are undead quel'dorei Farstriders.

You really need to give it up, dude. There is nothing in lore OR gameplay that separates hunters from dark rangers. Literally everything we've seen shows they're the exact same things.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The origin of the power is meaningless, if the end result is the same. The tauren sunwalkers are not druids, or even "druid-like".

so we have circled on something else, the Klaxxi Paragons and Twlight hammer members in plate are Paladins Again as the origin of the power is meaningless as long as they get power.

What's the relevance? You said "zandalari prelates don't wear much armor" as if it would disqualify them of being more paladin-like than druid-like. My counter to that would be that your claim would indicate that Garrosh and the Orgrimmar guards are not warriors because they don't wear heavy armor.

Actually I said they were shaman/whichdoctor/shadow hunter like not druid. You said they wore plate so that makes them pally's I pointed out half don't wear plate and you then swapped to warriors Because you know you can't do the same with actual pally examples after using wearing plate as a way to define Pally's.

And your quote is still wrong. Your claim "no further lore other than being undead and working for Sylvanas" is just plain wrong, as it is disproven by the WoWpedia's article about the dark rangers.

Again point me to the lore I'm missing a description that makes them hunters isn't lore.

[Fantazma]

All my arguments are over.
The main argument here for NEVER hoping that I'll ever see Dark Ranger as a class is that the Lore around Dark Rangers doesn't allow for that. (And there are people playing Tauren Paladin and NE mage... and want to talk about logic and lore here. lol). And how could we have playable Dark Rangers if after all they are just Undead Hunters and we already have Undead Hunters (at least in the Horde), right??!
Ah, this is very nostalgic! "We'll never have Death Knights, they're just undead warriors"...hahahah...good times!
Yes, you are right. I'm giving up on this madness. After all... the Dark Rangers I'd like to see could never use Banshee powers either, after all only Sylvanas can use her skills and "borrow" this power... violates the lore... despite the initial thread here being just one Banshee power being loaned to Hunters in 9.1!!! hahahah
I don't know what else to say.

I'm just going to leave this inspirational artwork here so that this thread has less "dark" and more "light" for all of us. Good Night!

[Ielenia]

Ah more utterly asinine comments.

I must be doing something right if you're already going into insults.

As per usual, you only read parts of what I say.

No, I read it all. I just quoted part of it. Your claim of "dark rangers just do this more than others" is meaningless, because all classes "do something better" than the other classes. Spellcasting, healing, physical damage, avoiding damage, etc.

And it IS your only justification.

And now you basically confirm to me that you not only are not paying attention, you're intentionally not paying attention if you double-down on your assertion despite me telling you this isn't the case.

You really need to give it up, dude.

Says the guy who refuses to see any point other than his own, and gets incredibly heated in a conversation to the point of throwing insults, as evidenced by this post of yours.

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so we have circled on something else, the Klaxxi Paragons and Twlight hammer members in plate are Paladins Again as the origin of the power is meaningless as long as they get power.

I doubt that the end result of the Paragons of Klaxxi and plated Twilight Hammer members are the same thing as the paladins, radiating bright, light magic for protection and healing. But you do you.

Actually I said they were shaman/whichdoctor/shadow hunter like not druid.

Still wrong, though, as prelates don't use hexes, elemental magic or shadow magic.

You said they wore plate so that makes them pally's I pointed out half don't wear plate and you then swapped to warriors Because you know you can't do the same with actual pally examples after using wearing plate as a way to define Pally's.

No. You said "they don't wear plate, therefore they're not paladins", and I pointed out that Garrosh and Orgrimmar grunts didn't wear plate (or basically any actual armor worth a damn) then by your logic they weren't warriors. Also, Thrall, for the longest time, wore plate armor. Does that mean he was not a shaman back then?

Again point me to the lore I'm missing a description that makes them hunters isn't lore.

I already did so, barely three hours ago. Not going to repeat myself.

[Calfredd]

All my arguments are over.
Ah, this is very nostalgic! "We'll never have Death Knights, they're just undead warriors"...hahahah...good times!
Yes, you are right. I'm giving up on this madness. After all... the Dark Rangers I'd like to see could never use Banshee powers either, after all only Sylvanas can use her skills and "borrow" this power... violates the lore... despite the initial thread here being just one Banshee power being loaned to Hunters in 9.1!!! hahahah
I don't know what else to say.

Well get a better argument for starters because that was never said about Death Knights and you acting smug and stuck up about it all is only giving you hefty demerits.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

P

I doubt that the end result of the Paragons of Klaxxi and plated Twilight Hammer members are the same thing as the paladins, radiating bright, light magic for protection and healing. But you do you.

just like those with the blessing of razen wouldn’t be radiating bright light magic as you know his magic colour is blue as show cased by talanji. It’s almost as if both are nothing like the silver hand/narru paladins and your proving my point.

Also the void can both protect and heal.

Still wrong, though, as prelates don't use hexes, elemental magic or shadow magic.

ah yes because all of those start and end with there magic types it’s not like they have any thing to do with Loa and it’s not like
The most prominent shadow hunter in wow has ever had a direct link to a Loa and was able to call on there blessings through worship.

No. You said "they don't wear plate, therefore they're not paladins", and I pointed out that Garrosh and Orgrimmar grunts didn't wear plate (or basically any actual armor worth a damn) then by your logic they weren't warriors. Also, Thrall, for the longest time, wore plate armor. Does that mean he was not a shaman back then?

No I laid out that they weren’t culturally magically or devotionaly similar so there not paladins and you came back with “but they wear plate” which I then pointed out wasn’t true for half of them.

I already did so, barely three hours ago. Not going to repeat myself.

so again you admit they have no lore other then what I laid out and instead point to them being described as hunters.

So thanks for admitting that dark rangers are just hunters with no lore to make them any different.

[Ielenia]

P just like those with the blessing of razen wouldn’t be radiating bright light magic as you know his magic colour is blue as show cased by talanji. It’s almost as if both are nothing like the silver hand/narru paladins and your proving my point.

Also the void can both protect and heal.

The prelate's description is that they're elite warriors gifted by the loa into champions of light, therefore making them paladins.

ah yes because all of those start and end with there magic types it’s not like they have any thing to do with Loa and it’s not like

Loas aren't only about "hexes, elemental magic and shadow magic."

The most prominent shadow hunter in wow has ever had a direct link to a Loa and was able to call on there blessings through worship.

Cool. So what?

No I laid out that they weren’t culturally magically or devotionaly similar so there not paladins and you came back with “but they wear plate” which I then pointed out wasn’t true for half of them.

But they do wear heavy armor, though. It's their version "heavy armor". I pointed out that Garrosh and the Orgrimmar grunts also don't look like they're wearing heavy armor. It counters your argument because they're not any less of a paladin because they're not wearing plate.

so again you admit they have no lore other then what I laid out and instead point to them being described as hunters.

So thanks for admitting that dark rangers are just hunters with no lore to make them any different.

Why are you being so blatantly dishonest? Please point me in the hunter's description how the class concept is described as being "cunning and manipulative" and "sows hatred in enemy ranks." Also please show me where in the hunter class concept's description it is said that they use necromancy to raise the enemies they slay into skeletons. And being able to manipulate enemies with magic.

[TheRevenantHero]

I must be doing something right if you're already going into insults.


No, I read it all. I just quoted part of it. Your claim of "dark rangers just do this more than others" is meaningless, because all classes "do something better" than the other classes. Spellcasting, healing, physical damage, avoiding damage, etc.


And now you basically confirm to me that you not only are not paying attention, you're intentionally not paying attention if you double-down on your assertion despite me telling you this isn't the case.


Says the guy who refuses to see any point other than his own, and gets incredibly heated in a conversation to the point of throwing insults, as evidenced by this post of yours.

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I doubt that the end result of the Paragons of Klaxxi and plated Twilight Hammer members are the same thing as the paladins, radiating bright, light magic for protection and healing. But you do you.


Still wrong, though, as prelates don't use hexes, elemental magic or shadow magic.


No. You said "they don't wear plate, therefore they're not paladins", and I pointed out that Garrosh and Orgrimmar grunts didn't wear plate (or basically any actual armor worth a damn) then by your logic they weren't warriors. Also, Thrall, for the longest time, wore plate armor. Does that mean he was not a shaman back then?


I already did so, barely three hours ago. Not going to repeat myself.

I don't take most of your opinions into consideration because that have absolutely no grounds in facts. Being mentally manipulative isn't some magic power. So repeating over and over that dark rangers aren't like hunters simply because they're conniving and prefer to sow dissent is the true meaningless point. You have yet to supply ANY lore supporting your claim that dark rangers are completely separate to hunters.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The prelate's description is that they're elite warriors gifted by the loa into champions of light, therefore making them paladins.

yes champions of light, the light of the Loa.

May de light of de loa shine upon you, <name>.

And hers said light in action, you might notice it’s nothing like the holy light.

Loas aren't only about "hexes, elemental magic and shadow magic."

good thing I never brought those up then right?

But they do wear heavy armor, though. It's their version "heavy armor". I pointed out that Garrosh and the Orgrimmar grunts also don't look like they're wearing heavy armor. It counters your argument because they're not any less of a paladin because they're not wearing plate.

no they don’t the throne of thunder prelates are wearing shaman garb.

Also no garrosh doesn’t counter my argument at all as you may notice he’s not a paladins and you defined Paladins by what they wear not warriors. If you had some paladin examples then you could defend your own weak point about Paladins being defined by plate but you can’t even get any paladin example.

Why are you being so blatantly dishonest? Please point me in the hunter's description how the class concept is described as being "cunning and manipulative" and "sows hatred in enemy ranks." Also please show me where in the hunter class concept's description it is said that they use necromancy to raise the enemies they slay into skeletons. And being able to manipulate enemies with magic.

Im the dishonest one? I’m not the one pointing to a vague description and claiming it to be lore when it isn’t and when challenged on it telling people to use there imagination. Well guess what I used my imagination and it came back “cunning and manipulative” to mean using misdirect and feign death and “sowing hating in enemy ranks” to mean growl so the target hates the pet so much they just have to attack them.

Given that there is no actual lore to say my interpretation is any less valid then yours I’m just as right as you are when I say it describes them as hunters, that is of course unless you could site some actual lore.

[loras]

the explanation is that this spell is from an item, specifically sylvanas' bow that she will drop from normal difficulty or higher, which has been known for months now. have people seriously been living under rocks this whole time?

The manner of implementation seems to contradict that.
Also keep in mind that this is not particularly on anyone's list of "Hey i should pay attention to this.", so even if i had not known therevwould be no need to involve rocks. ^^

[Diaphin]

Banshee isn't even a race either. It's more of a template. They're just undead elf spirits. But you're 100% correct. This guy refuses to accept that dark rangers outside of Sylvanas don't have ANY banshee powers. And he continues to use HotS as a way to prove his point despite it being a wholly different game.

And originally, not a single death knight had frost or blood powers. Not even Arthas. Even in the four Hoursemen fight, the only Death Knight Encounter which doesn't steals warlock abilities, the hoursemen utilized frost damage. Two wear utilizing fire-elemental attacks, one shadow, one holy. No frost. Blue glowing eyes were also something unique to Arthas after becoming Lich King prior to wotlk. Arthas as a Death Knight had green eyes, everyone else black or dark purple eyes. Then DK became playable, Death Knights gained blood magic as well as lich-related powers out of nowhere and suddenly their eyes had a blue glow similar to Arthas.

Demon Hunters just as well were not half demons, that one was a trait unique to Illidan. They had tattoos and a blind fold, otherwise they looked like regular elves. Legion came along, suddenly most of them have very visible demonic traits and even the option to have glowing eyeholds, which was just as well unique to Illidan prior. And not even present in WC3.

What is so hard about listening to older and more experienced players who can tell you that every single new hero class came with retcons and design changes which moved the class closer to its iconic hero as well as expanding on its skillset and abilities it is capable of using? Like, you know that even an iconic ability like Death Strike was invented only with Wrath of the Lich King? Prior to that, Death Knights utilized warrior and warlock abilities besides death pact and raise dead. Those two were the only unique Death Knight abilities.

And now I will tell you something crazy which might fry your brain: Death Coil was a Warlock Ability. Up until Mist of Pandaria, where it was renamed mortal coil. For two Addons, Death Knights and Warlocks actually shared that ability. Just as Metamorphosis was also a Warlock Ability.

At this point, Dark Rangers have actually more to themselves than Death Knights had when they were released, they have abilities from two different boss encounters to draw upon when it comes to designing them as a class. And Blizz still could opt to give them something totally new, like they did with Death Knights who got not a single ability from the Four Hoursemen. Nathanos utilized plague based abilities as a World Boss while Sylvanas has a whole set of shadow-type death abilities as the final boss in the upcoming patch Chains of Domination. And yeah, I can totall tell you, if Dark Rangers ever turns into a class, all Dark Ranger will Banshee abilities. Because in the case of both hero classes, Blizzard took more inspiration from the actual hero than from the generic class itself.

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It's in wowhead:

New general skill:
Wailing Arrow : Fire and enchanted arrow, dealing (185% of Attack power) Shadow damage to your target and an additional (75% of Attack power) Shadow damage to all enemies within 8 yds of your target. Targets struck by Wailing Arrow are silenced for 5 sec.
100 yard ranged (100 yard?? o__O)

This skill belongs to Sylvanas in the HOTS game.
I had already heard that it would be a unlocked skill if you caught the legendary bow in the new Raid. But it looks like they decided to make it a "general skill".

https://ptr.wowhead.com/news/patch-9...stincts-322661

There is no indication of that happening. The Bow still has the affect of giving access to the ability. I mean, one could be particularily savvy and consider that this is a spell Hunter can put into their hotbar. Which means, they have to take it from somewhere to move it down there. Which means it has to be somewhere in the spellbook. With it being neither an ability only Marksman or Beastmastery Hunters can access, this means it goes to the general hunter abilities. Because logic.

[Martymark]

I want Black Arrow.

[Ielenia]

I don't take most of your opinions into consideration because that have absolutely no grounds in facts.

So you admit to bias, and that you dismiss opinions that don't fit yours, and dismiss evidence when they go against your narrative.

Being mentally manipulative isn't some magic power.

Except, as per the Warcraft 3 unit, it does have the Charm ability.

So repeating over and over that dark rangers aren't like hunters simply because they're conniving and prefer to sow dissent is the true meaningless point.

It's not. It's their description.

You have yet to supply ANY lore supporting your claim that dark rangers are completely separate to hunters.

One: I never said they are "completely separate from hunters", especially paladins aren't "completely separate from priests". Two: you've dismissed evidence that I provided so far.

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yes champions of light, the light of the Loa.

And hers said light in action, you might notice it’s nothing like the holy light.

You complain about me using warriors in my examples, yet you use a priest in your example. Hypocrite much?

good thing I never brought those up then right?

Except you technically did, when you said that "prelates are like shaman/witchdoctor/shadow hunter"

no they don’t the throne of thunder prelates are wearing shaman garb.

They are wearing the headpiece. Everything else is not shaman gear.

Also no garrosh doesn’t counter my argument at all as you may notice he’s not a paladins and you defined Paladins by what they wear not warriors.

It does, because a defining trait of the warrior class, just like the paladin class, is the usage of heavy armor. Of which Garrosh is wearing basically none.

Im the dishonest one? I’m not the one pointing to a vague description and claiming it to be lore when it isn’t

And here you basically admit to more dishonesty, as you dismiss information as non-canon because it's vague.

and when challenged on it telling people to use there imagination.

Because we have three examples in which that happens. So to say that it's not allowed is dishonest.

Well guess what I used my imagination and it came back “cunning and manipulative” to mean using misdirect and feign death and “sowing hating in enemy ranks” to mean growl so the target hates the pet so much they just have to attack them.

Given that there is no actual lore to say my interpretation is any less valid then yours I’m just as right as you are when I say it describes them as hunters, that is of course unless you could site some actual lore.

Except yours is unfit because the term "sowing hatred in enemy ranks" does not mean "taunting them". It means causing conflicts within the enemy ranks. Also, dark rangers do not use pets. The one sole exception to this is Nathanos, but as a VIP NPC he, like many others, such as Anduin and Garrosh, don't follow class rules.

[BossManRoth]

The manner of implementation seems to contradict that.
Also keep in mind that this is not particularly on anyone's list of "Hey i should pay attention to this.", so even if i had not known therevwould be no need to involve rocks. ^^

What do you mean the implementation contradicts what i said? https://www.wowhead.com/news/sanctum...ndalone-321986 its always been an ability gained from an item. any spell changes that occur on ptr are listed under hunter because its a uniquely hunter ability, whether it comes from an item or not. the item grants a spell, not an on use.
if youre playing hunter, you would have been paying attention to this. this would have been on the radar since it was first datamined. theres 2 hunter specific items from sylvanas, and thats been huge news for hunters considering nothing else is really changing for the class.

[VinceVega]

Is this the new tinker thread but edgier. I am all for it. Like a soap you keep coming back but you don't know why.

I like the Dark Ranger concept. But it doesn't fit alliance. So you would need a comparable class with the same abilities who are called differently but are essentially the same.

But overall a non edgy class would be great tbh. Like a cleric. A mix between Paladin, Priest and something... weapon rouge. Melee dps spec /ranged dps spec/ heal. Heavy armor. More on empowering his attacks with the light or anything.
Or every spec can be another cosmic power. Like Heal: Cleric of life, ranged: Clearic of death (dark ranger, wink wink), Melee: cleric of order.