Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[rhorle]

True but its the lion that is killing people not the direct actions of me buying a lion so clearly it isn't murder as it isn't a 1 to 1 correlation. Honestly... are you just arguing to argue? I can't believe you actually hold the thoughts you do.

But not all lions are going to kill preschoolers. Some can live peacefully in a sanctuary. What you do with the lion (gold) is what is being discussed. But merely having the ability to use it to win doesn't make buying that gold pay to win. The only one arguing to argue here is yourself who has admitted to being a bad actor and who routinely insults and derails any actual discussion taking place.

It is amusing that you can't understand how others can hold a different view then yourself though. Maybe see some of the world.

[Schizoide]

But they are not using cash to trade for what is being called the win. They are trading cash for the gold. Which again means using your own definitions that WoW is pay to trade and not pay to win.

Does not matter that it's one step removed. Real money gives an in-game advantage, that is the definition of P2W.

[Crimson Spears]

But not all lions are going to kill preschoolers. Some can live peacefully in a sanctuary. What you do with the lion (gold) is what is being discussed. But merely having the ability to use it to win doesn't make buying that gold pay to win. The only one arguing to argue here is yourself who has admitted to being a bad actor and who routinely insults and derails any actual discussion taking place.

It is amusing that you can't understand how others can hold a different view then yourself though. Maybe see some of the world.

Any good inventor understands that if you want to invent something from a moral stand point you have to approach it from the perspective of "what is the most harm could cause in the wrong hands".

I know people are buying tokens for boosts... I have people who schedule a run with me on their pay days (their words not mine)... You can refuse to accept the situation we are in. I can't force you to accept it but there is a reason why you have hundreds of posts explaining why your reasoning is wrong and it isn't them simply trolling you.

[rhorle]

Does not matter that it's one step removed. Real money gives an in-game advantage, that is the definition of P2W.

So a subscription is pay to win? A box price? Those all give advantages over the WoW free play option.

- - - Updated - - -

I know people are buying tokens for boosts... I have people who schedule a run with me on their pay days (their words not mine)... You can refuse to accept the situation we are in. I can't force you to accept it but there is a reason why you have hundreds of posts explaining why your reasoning is wrong and it isn't them simply trolling you.

Hundreds of post from the same few people doesn't prove anything. Just as people saying they use their payday to buy tokens doesn't prove anything. They user their paydays to buy gold. What they use their gold on after that is irrelevant to the RMT. Of course you are simply trolling. You pick out random posts and come at them with stupid logic. You even admitted to trolling in an earlier post. Lol. You always turn the discussions to me, the poster, rather then sticking to the ideas. And you seem to make it a personal mission to do so to a lot of posts I make.

[Lochton]

True but its the lion that is killing people not the direct actions of me buying a lion so clearly it isn't murder as it isn't a 1 to 1 correlation.

Honestly... are you just arguing to argue? I can't believe you actually hold the thoughts you do.

To make your lion example fit the token discussion it would be that you buy the lion from a company, then sell it to another guy, who then sets it free.

[Jujudrood]

WoW is pay to win, but that's all based on your definition.
Since day 1, you can buy raid carries.
In Vanilla, people sold MC/BWL runs.
Since BC, you could buy Arena carries.
Since Legion, you can buy M+ carries.
If completing that content as a fly on the wall while others effectively play the game for you is your definition of winning, then WoW is 100% pay to win.
Pointless to argue against it because it's fact that you *could* have bought these carries ingame, whether it be with gold or real money, every since these features were first introduced.

[Crimson Spears]

To make your lion example fit the token discussion it would be that you buy the lion from a company, then sell it to another guy, who then sets it free.

I mean that is the exact same thing since I said I bought the lion in my example but the fact we are now discussing the lion has not only proven my point to a brutal degree but given me a chuckle as well.

[Sorrowseer]

No next question.

[Goat7]

100% pay to win.

Anyone who says otherwise is drinking that kool-aid and also I have some really good vehicle engine protection insurance I would like to sell them.

Anytime you pay money to get ANY advantage over a player who does not pay that money = PAY 2 WIN. If you kool aid drinkers wanna call it PAY 2 ADVANTAGE, go for it. Same shit.

[rhorle]

Anytime you pay money to get ANY advantage over a player who does not pay that money = PAY 2 WIN. If you kool aid drinkers wanna call it PAY 2 ADVANTAGE, go for it. Same shit.

A person that buys gold has the same advantages as a person who does not buy gold. It is about the total gold you have and not how you obtained that number. The token only allows people to trade time to earn gold for money. They have access to the same boosts, same BoE's, same "advantages".

[Goat7]

A person that buys gold has the same advantages as a person who does not buy gold. It is about the total gold you have and not how you obtained that number. The token only allows people to trade time to earn gold for money. They have access to the same boosts, same BoE's, same "advantages".

kool-aid drinker? or trump U grad? foreal tho you work in sales? that logic is mind blowing.

[TheRevenantHero]

A person that buys gold has the same advantages as a person who does not buy gold. It is about the total gold you have and not how you obtained that number. The token only allows people to trade time to earn gold for money. They have access to the same boosts, same BoE's, same "advantages".

There is so much wrong with this that I don't even know where to start. All I will say is that a person buying gold has a TREMENDOUS advantage over someone not buying gold.

[rhorle]

kool-aid drinker? or trump U grad? foreal tho you work in sales? that logic is mind blowing.

Oh. I thought we were having a conversation and not deflecting through insults and stupidity. Gold is what gives you advantages in the game and is a normal part of the game. Buying gold only gives you the same advantages that having a lot of gold with out buying gives. You are make use of a micro transaction and not paying to win when you buy gold. Because you are not buying power, it is not gold or services supplied by Blizzard, and gold is not a currency specifically designed for buying power with a slow trickle given out for free.

Not all micro transactions are pay to win. But all "pay to win" transactions are micro transactions. Just like Squares and Rectangles.

[Goat7]

Oh. I thought we were having a conversation and not deflecting through insults and stupidity. Gold is what gives you advantages in the game and is a normal part of the game. Buying gold only gives you the same advantages that having a lot of gold with out buying gives. You are make use of a micro transaction and not paying to win when you buy gold. Because you are not buying power, it is not gold or services supplied by Blizzard, and gold is not a currency specifically designed for buying power with a slow trickle given out for free.

Not all micro transactions are pay to win. But all "pay to win" transactions are micro transactions. Just like Squares and Rectangles.

insert sure Jan gif here

[rhorle]

There is so much wrong with this that I don't even know where to start. All I will say is that a person buying gold has a TREMENDOUS advantage over someone not buying gold.

Nope. Being wealthy is what gets you advantages. Buying gold only makes you wealthy faster but confers no actual advantage over a self made wealthy person. Heck just doing callings on a few alts can get you enough gold for a few tokens in a week. It is what an average of 3k per calling per day?

[TheRevenantHero]

Nope. Being wealthy is what gets you advantages. Buying gold only makes you wealthy faster but confers no actual advantage over a self made wealthy person. Heck just doing callings on a few alts can get you enough gold for a few tokens in a week. It is what an average of 3k per calling per day?

....which makes buying gold a huge advantage. Because it will takes hours upon hours to collect the same amount of gold that people just buying gold with the click of a button have. And doing callings will absolutely NOT get enough gold for a few tokens. The cheapest I've ever seen a token is 135k. You're being exceptionally dishonest.

[rhorle]

....which makes buying gold a huge advantage. Because it will takes hours upon hours to collect the same amount of gold that people just buying gold with the click of a button have. And doing callings will absolutely NOT get enough gold for a few tokens. The cheapest I've ever seen a token is 135k. You're being exceptionally dishonest.

Hours and hours? If you can get 3k from a calling that requires 3-5 world quests and do that on a few alts that isn't very much work. You only need to do that every 3 days so you can have a rotation where you only do 1 or 2 a day. I'm not being dishonest at all. You can still get gold fairly easy if you do a little bit of work. It isn't as passive as WoD and Legion but with alts it is still possible. Looking it up it is 1.5k to 2.5k per calling.

2.5kx7=17.5k. 17.5kx4 is 70k a week with 4 characters. 280k a month. That is minimal play.

The gold you buy with a token still required someone to put in the work to gain it because the system doesn't create gold. So for every token bought someone made that gold. How are tokens always available if there is not gold just sitting around waiting to be traded?

[TheRevenantHero]

Hours and hours? If you can get 3k from a calling that requires 3-5 world quests and do that on a few alts that isn't very much work. You only need to do that every 3 days so you can have a rotation where you only do 1 or 2 a day. I'm not being dishonest at all. You can still get gold fairly easy if you do a little bit of work. It isn't as passive as WoD and Legion but with alts it is still possible.

The gold you buy with a token still required someone to put in the work to gain it because the system doesn't create gold. So for every token bought someone made that gold. How are tokens always available if there is not gold just sitting around waiting to be traded?

The average player does NOT have the gold to be buying multiple tokens. So as I said, you are being exceptionally dishonest. You are claiming someone can get a few tokens A WEEK which is just pure bull shit. Saying that buying gold with a token doesn't give you an advantage over a player needing to spend time to grind out gold is just an outright lie.

[Goat7]

Hours and hours? If you can get 3k from a calling that requires 3-5 world quests and do that on a few alts that isn't very much work. You only need to do that every 3 days so you can have a rotation where you only do 1 or 2 a day. I'm not being dishonest at all. You can still get gold fairly easy if you do a little bit of work. It isn't as passive as WoD and Legion but with alts it is still possible.

The gold you buy with a token still required someone to put in the work to gain it because the system doesn't create gold. So for every token bought someone made that gold. How are tokens always available if there is not gold just sitting around waiting to be traded?

-------------> The gold you buy with a token still required someone to put in the work to gain it because the system doesn't create gold. So for every token bought someone made that gold <---------------------

Exactly someone else made that gold, not the person buying the token with IRL money to get that gold. Thus pay 2 win.

Yo I can't even, after reading that i feel like im covered in bull poo, gonna go shower now. Props on being a professional shat thrower.

[Halfaheart]

If items being bought can be acquired the same way naturally it is not pay to win

Paying to get an edge? sure. But unless they lock ilvl 250 gear behind a paywall its not p2w. There is no other argument lol