Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
LastLast
  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I don't think COD like prestige systems are the answer, either. I get what youre going for, but the game already has too big of an issue feeling completely seasonal and not expansional... a prestige system would just cement the seasonal system in place forever
    Actually this system pre-dates COD. It would be "remort" system found on online MUDs back in the 1980s...
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  2. #102
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
    3+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    2,677
    The way WoW does it? Oh hell yes.

    If you want to know how leveling in an mmo should work, go play SWTOR (basically it's a single player rpg story with choices you can make etc).

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    This. the RPG experience is long gone, and exchanged for a more diablo 3/destiny 2 like seasonal experience where people come/go cuz it's just a game... not a living, breathing world.

    there's a reason the classic realms are charming people in, because it offers a more RPG like experience that WoW has long since forgotten about, so much so that many don't even remember it or never experienced it.
    Bad news: Classic realms are also seasonal, since vanilla is now a ghost town and the same thing will happen with tbc in about two years. And people still come and go in whatever classic realm is live, too.

    The problem is not the game, the problem is that people wish it wasn't 2021. We have infinite things competing for our attention now.

  4. #104
    I think the worst thing about WoW's levelling, is it forces you to do the same thing on each toon as you go through the content.

    Really, doing it once and then being able to level anywhere would be enough.

    Threads of Fate isn't really doing it for me if I'm honest. I'd happily level to give each class time to sink in, but the thought of pushing my remaining classes through the same fucking abysmal Shadowlands content yet again has me reaching for other games.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    The old moral was, the real journey in an MMO was the levelling experience the journey to get there. Now days its all about getting there as fast as possible no one wants to level, its 'gotta get there, gotta get the gear, gotta go fast, gotta see that max level stuff'.

    You feel levelling just needs to go or be replaced with something else? You feel like the gaming sphere has just moved on?
    Leveling is part of the RPG half of MMORPG.

    Usually leveling gives you a sense of growth. It's a little less now with how old zones scale, but the scale is capped depending on the expansion it belonged to. (While writing that I forgot about the level squish, but I'm sure at worse they scale to 50.)

    You could remove leveling from wow. Then it would be like any other seasonal game. Every few seasons has a gear reset. But then that would destroy their world building and story (i know it's bad already).

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    I have literally no idea what you are talking about. My title? I'm not the OP.
    Yeah, sorry about that, didn't check the name and assumed you were the OP
    Doesn't change the core of the argument though.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    But then that would destroy their world building and story (i know it's bad already).
    What do levels have to do with world building or story? Neither have anything inherently tied to an arbitrary number next to a characters name. Hell, Secret World has IMO the best world-building of any MMO by miles, and a much better story than most/all to boot. And it did all that without character levels (or even formal classes!) back when it originally released. There was still player power progression/growth and whatnot, just more tied to gear/abilities than character levels.

  8. #108
    Titan Orby's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Under the stars
    Posts
    12,977
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    I don't really understand your reasoning. It'd make more sense to ask "should leveling be put again back in the center", wouldn't it ?
    I am playing devils advocate to things I keep hearing and the way people approach levelling MMO's.

    By the way I love levelling, but my argument is making a case for why others do not. I am more interested in the direction of levelling and how it was approached back in the day to how its approached now. And what can be changed to make levelling more appealing, even if that means getting rid of it. Not saying we SHOULD get rid of levelling, more looking for solutions

  9. #109
    no. I mean most of the only good or at least tolerable story telling happens when you level. not just in WoW but most RPG's. even as I despise the over arching plot line going on in WoW the lore and stories in each zone are by far the best parts of the game in that regard.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Why would it destroy the world or story? Why could there not still be main questlines and such that players do to go through the zones, follow the story, and unlock attunements, gear, mounts, abilities or other things that are less gating?
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    What do levels have to do with world building or story? Neither have anything inherently tied to an arbitrary number next to a characters name. Hell, Secret World has IMO the best world-building of any MMO by miles, and a much better story than most/all to boot. And it did all that without character levels (or even formal classes!) back when it originally released. There was still player power progression/growth and whatnot, just more tied to gear/abilities than character levels.
    Was equating the leveling experience with the questing experience. Even without the arbitrary level system, you would still have the chore of doing those quests to experience the content. Perhaps there is something fundamental that I'm missing, but without those it really wouldn't be an RPG.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Was equating the leveling experience with the questing experience. Even without the arbitrary level system, you would still have the chore of doing those quests to experience the content. Perhaps there is something fundamental that I'm missing, but without those it really wouldn't be an RPG.
    Quests and whatnot aren't inherently tied to levels. And if the quests are "chores", they're bad quests. Secret World did a good job in making some of them more interesting with investigation missions that did everything from forcing you to look up morse code to translate a message to going to fake company sites to look for information (like, an IRL site but it's presented in-universe). Has plenty of the standard "kill X" quests too, but those investigation missions help balance things out.

  12. #112
    Leveling is cool if it's exciting, engaging, fun, and doesn't feel like it keeps you from the actual meat of the game.
    Right now, no mmo on the market offers this.
    People will bring up FF14 as an example of a good leveling experience, but i couldn't disagree more. That game's leveling is unbearably slow and tedious, and it has the worst implementation of "locking content behind quests" that i've ever seen.

  13. #113
    It's an issue of mindless consumer purchasing something that's not meant for them vs self aware consumer purchasing something that's meant for them.

  14. #114
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    ██████
    Posts
    26,281
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    Leveling is cool if it's exciting, engaging, fun, and doesn't feel like it keeps you from the actual meat of the game.
    Right now, no mmo on the market offers this.
    People will bring up FF14 as an example of a good leveling experience, but i couldn't disagree more. That game's leveling is unbearably slow and tedious, and it has the worst implementation of "locking content behind quests" that i've ever seen.
    I agree, leveling in FF14 is horrible. It just packages it in a smooth and linear fashion thats easy to look at. Its long, slow, and very restrictive for the sake of being long, slow, and restrictive.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Tylanthia View Post
    No. FF14 does leveling perfectly fine and has a large player base that enjoys the journey of going through a story.
    It was fine the first time but when you’re doing your second job all you will be doing is PotD or HoH till ShB. It get pretty boring after a while.
    DRAGONFLIGHT BETA CLUB

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Usernameforforums View Post
    It was fine the first time but when you’re doing your second job all you will be doing is PotD or HoH till ShB. It get pretty boring after a while.
    Or daily routletts.. or fates.. or leve quests..

    Sounds perfectly fine to me. Grinding out quests again is hardly more engaging. In fact leveling second jobs (up to soul of magic/war) has got to be the easiest thing I've ever done in any MMORPG. Not to mention that leveling in deep dungeons is cool, as you get to actually use your whole toolkit way earlier than if you were going through the usual leveling motions. It's WoW's ToF on roids.
    Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2021-06-09 at 12:16 AM.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Or daily routletts.. or fates.. or leve quests..

    Sounds perfectly fine to me. Grinding out quests again is hardly more engaging. In fact leveling second jobs (up to soul of magic/war) has got to be the easiest thing I've ever done in any MMORPG. Not to mention that leveling in deep dungeons is cool, as you get to actually use your whole toolkit way earlier than if you were going through the usual leveling motions. It's WoW's ToF on roids.
    If you’re actually grinding, youll just do your daily roulette then spam potd or hoh till shb. Then you move on to daily’s+fates.
    DRAGONFLIGHT BETA CLUB

  18. #118
    Orcboi NatePsy's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    VIC, Australia
    Posts
    5,361
    The people that want the endgame "Now now now" with levelling removed should probably stick to single-player games. Levelling has been and always will be apart of the MMO genre, it's just the min-max crowd that keep trying to push for the genre to be what they want it to be. It's the whole reason why WoD failed, all it had was end-game after levelling and nothing else going for it. "Raid or die" was the term used during that time period.

    There has to be more than just endgame for MMO's otherwise it gets stale quickly and you end up with a "raid and logout" community. Hell it's already a thing for the top-end guilds, all you see those guys do is basically log on for raid/M+ and then logout. What kind of shit is that?
    Last edited by NatePsy; 2021-06-09 at 12:24 AM.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    The old moral was, the real journey in an MMO was the levelling experience the journey to get there. Now days its all about getting there as fast as possible no one wants to level, its 'gotta get there, gotta get the gear, gotta go fast, gotta see that max level stuff'.

    You feel levelling just needs to go or be replaced with something else? You feel like the gaming sphere has just moved on?
    So your perfect MMO would be a hub city with portals to some dungeons and raids ?

  20. #120
    I suppose it depends on how mundane the quests are for me. If it's something like fetch 10 asses that refuse to drop, pick or collect ingredients or deliver this to such and such. Then yeah, they should probably go. Could never get into FF14 levelling, don't think i got too far before i got super bored, long ass cutscenes didn't help imo, although i know people appreciate them for heavy story telling, but should be skippable for people who don't want to sit through them.

    However i really liked SWTOR's Class missions for levelling, and the standard quests were made interesting with the voice acted dialogue and choices. Same can be said for ESO, to a lesser extent but still enjoyable.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •