The problem with alliance bias.

[Mehrunes]

This was when the Horde and Alliance were pulling their forces back from Northrend, mind you.

And as per that quote, Alliance presence in Horde waters was a violation of their ceasefire. Immediately after Garrosh mentioned that the Alliance presence in their waters violates said treaty, the omniscient narrator talked about it, corroborating his claim. And it was later flat out confirmed to be the case by Cairne, even if he criticized the morality of it. And that the Alliance vessel was indeed in Horde waters was in turn attested by Tula after Cairne inquired about it.

Dalaran was a neutral nation at that point in time, mind you, so not sure why you'd blame the Alliance for that? Yes, Jaina was a former Alliance leader, and certainly symphatised with the Alliance, but that doesn't make it an Alliance nation.

There's a Stormwind batallion assisting Jaina in the Purge.

Also, Genn Greymane and Jaina Proudmoore can't be punished by anyone in the Grand Alliance. Both are Anduin's equals and sovereigns of their own (refugee) nations, punishing Genn or Jaina would make place Anduin above them, and thus change the nature of the Alliance. People keep forgetting that the Alliance is an alliance, not a empire, not a military dictatorship, an alliance. Anduin does not outrank Genn, Jaina, Tyrande, Velen, Turalyon or whoever, all he could do was strip them off their rank in the Alliance military, but since they have none, that would be kinda hard.

The High King has control over forces given to him. Which, in case of Stormheim, included Genn. Genn himself openly admitted he was under Anduin's orders during that mission. Orders that he then violated, as per Anduin.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen this before where is it from?

Also if it was on the way back from northrend garrosh wouldn’t have been war chief yet and capturing enemy ships in your space would be very much a Cold War act let alone giving some of the men supply’s and sending them home.

making my previous post still correct in that it wasn’t garrosh declaring war or heating it up to a hot war.

Third chapter of The Shattering.

[geco]

This.

My preferred way to do this? Have alliance leaders, especially in light of recent events, finally ask "Why were we all just cool with the title of High King being a hereditary thing when literally any of us were better qualified for the job again?" and implode on itself. I'll take an entire Alliance themed expansion where the Horde is just trying to rebuild its infrastructure without blowing something up for a change while the Alliance is dealing with HEAVY internal power struggles. Horde can come in at the end to help kill whichever one gets possessed by a void lord or whatever.

I would say Alliance of Light vs. "Elune".
The light is bad and the Horde comes to save Elune.

Incidentally, the Horde regains some true Honor.

[VladlTutushkin]

I would say Alliance of Light vs. "Elune".
The light is bad and the Horde comes to save Elune.

Incidentally, the Horde regains some true Honor.

Oh fuck off from that.

1) Night elfs would be better off with Light since Elune is either impotent or just downright treats them as utterly disposable.

2) Horde better not get anywhere near night elfs or their religion any time soon in the next ten thousand years after what they did.

3) It will not make up for Teldrassil and all those souls in the Maw anyway.

4) Naaru are somehow related to Elune so she is not opposed to the Light as a force.

[AcidicSyn]

Yep, the Hordies just adored Jaina, praising her as the best written character in the franchise. She was strong-armed into helping Varian (who correctly saw Thrall was too toothless to keep the Horde under control), and instantly went from glowing praise to "She's a dreadlord! I hope we kill and skin that b****!" and similar cries. The Horde as written is a reflection of its playerbase, wildly overreacting.


As an aside for the people who've complained about Orc culture being dismantled, what culture? Do you object to them being in the Horde? If not, you should because the Horde is a Legion construct. Orcs were tribal and tribes were rivals at best. Lamenting the loss of warchief? You mean the figurehead position established by the Legion? If anything, supposed Orc fans should be pushing for tribal elders leading, but what I see is not fans of Orcs, rather fans of ORC SMASH.

I actually thought that's what were were going to get from WoD. Before I played through it anyway, I thought Blizzard was just being lazy and didn't feel like making new characters for the Orcs, and were going to use WoD as an excuse to bring back several of the old favorites to be part of the MU Horde. One of my favorite little bits from the WC2 map completion screen was seeing which clans and nations were present, would love more focus on these individual groups.

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Yeah, no. You seem to be missing the main point here.

IF we have to get an expansion of Alliance inner conflict then FIRST we need an expansion... or two, of Alliance ripping, tearing and mutilating horde to the point where ONLY thing that keeps Horde from being wiped out is some kind of disagreement within the Alliance. Then horde can HELP Alliance kill that one "bad apple" and resume the usual routine.

Thats how it will go, not the bullshit way you suggested.

Seems pretty clear to me you're missing more than a few points here champ but go on ahead deluding yourself.

[Lolites]

Alright, I understand your point, I really do I just disagree with blaming this on the Alliance.

Yes, it was Alliance (Human) soldiers that were portalled into Dalaran by Jaina that helped with the purge, but I do not think that is as black and white as it is made out to be. These footmen were portalled in, told that the Horde needed to be purged from Dalaran (while the Alliance was at war with the Horde), by both a leader whose nation was until recently part of the Alliance before it was destroyed and they were then joined by a (officially) neutral, but heavily Alliance-leaning Silver Covenant group of elves and their Ranger-General. Would you not follow their orders as a lowly footmen?

if Jaina was not alliance leader? no i would not, as that would be treason... so obviously she is viewed as alliance leader...
and a fact remains AFTER purge happened, Varian could punish her for misusing his troops for her own goals, but he did not, which is the same as giving approval, so yeah, maybe Varian didnt want it but by not punishing Jaina he made it alliance fault...

as for expeling Sunreavers within her rights as ruler of Dalaran... perhaps that could be true, and not viewed as oversteping her powers IF she only used kirin tor troops, and if she actualy only expeled sunreavers...
but if you did the q line you literaly STOP sunreavers from leaving, maim their dragonhaws, kill innocent, hell they fed some sunreavers to shark in underbelly...
maybe that was not the original intention BUT! as person in command she should be held responsible...

[AcidicSyn]

I would say Alliance of Light vs. "Elune".
The light is bad and the Horde comes to save Elune.

Incidentally, the Horde regains some true Honor.

Nah, in my idea the Horde would take a back seat entirely. My statements about them rebuilding infrastructure was just so that when Horde players log in they don't just see a black screen really.

Vlads too dense to understand that so he's raging off like a kiddo, but obviously the Horde would spend this expansion being attacked by various Alliance forces, and I don't just mean "Oh no we're under attack /orcvoice", but taking some losses. Preferably not in the way of leaders as we have so few already, but in territory, or something visible in game, it needs to be "felt" so that it carries some weight and means something to the Alliance players, otherwise its just cornflakes. (Imagine if, for example, instead of Sylvanas blighting capital city on purpose, Mathias Shaw had infiltrated the city and rigged the blight supply to blow, taking half the population with it before we could finish evacuating)

Like Dickman was explaining, the Alliance needs to have a more proactive role in order to "cleanse the sainthood" so to speak. So naturally they would be instigating conflict with the Horde, I just don't think they could do it as a unified Alliance and still get rid of the whole saint thing; hence the internal struggles. (Plus it always irked me that the High King title was magically hereditary and everyone was just sort of okay with that, particularly Tyrande. I could see Genn being fine with it, But there's no universe where Tyrande just takes that and it makes sense to me)

[VladlTutushkin]

I actually thought that's what were were going to get from WoD. Before I played through it anyway, I thought Blizzard was just being lazy and didn't feel like making new characters for the Orcs, and were going to use WoD as an excuse to bring back several of the old favorites to be part of the MU Horde. One of my favorite little bits from the WC2 map completion screen was seeing which clans and nations were present, would love more focus on these individual groups.

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Seems pretty clear to me you're missing more than a few points here champ but go on ahead deluding yourself.

What i described to you is literally Cata-MoP or perhaps BfA too. It ALREADY HAPPENED. But on the Horde side. If you think that Alliance dosent deserve equal treatment and similar plot ideas then its you who is deluded.

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Nah, in my idea the Horde would take a back seat entirely. My statements about them rebuilding infrastructure was just so that when Horde players log in they don't just see a black screen really.

Vlads too dense to understand that so he's raging off like a kiddo, but obviously the Horde would spend this expansion being attacked by various Alliance forces. Like Dickman was explaining, the Alliance needs to have a more proactive role in order to "cleanse the sainthood" so to speak. So naturally they would be instigating conflict with the Horde, I just don't think they could do it as a unified Alliance and still get rid of the whole saint thing; hence the internal struggles. (Plus it always irked me that the High King title was magically hereditary and everyone was just sort of okay with that, particularly Tyrande. I could see Genn being fine with it, But there's no universe where Tyrande just takes that and it makes sense to me)

Also calling someone a "raging kiddo" is a very weak move.

[Mehrunes]

Alright, I understand your point, I really do I just disagree with blaming this on the Alliance.

Yes, it was Alliance (Human) soldiers that were portalled into Dalaran by Jaina that helped with the purge, but I do not think that is as black and white as it is made out to be. These footmen were portalled in, told that the Horde needed to be purged from Dalaran (while the Alliance was at war with the Horde), by both a leader whose nation was until recently part of the Alliance before it was destroyed and they were then joined by a (officially) neutral, but heavily Alliance-leaning Silver Covenant group of elves and their Ranger-General. Would you not follow their orders as a lowly footmen?

And yes, I already stated that Jaina, while the leader of an neutral organisation, was heavily symphatic to the Grand Alliance. In my opinion Jaina should never have been made the leader of the Council of Six, but she was and she used her powers in that position to expel the Horde/Sunreavers from Dalaran. The remaining Council of Six afterwards backed up her decision, instead of legally voting her out and expelling her, and at that point Dalaran ever returning to neutrality (even after Khadgar's coup), should have never happened.

Those footmen were led by a Stormwind lieutenant. Who, given the military command structure, most likely didn't send there himself and instead must have had some orders from someone even higher up. Plus, as @Lolites already pointed out by the time of the Purge Dalaran wasn't even neutral anymore because Jaina - the leader of the Council of Six (admittedly it's mostly a ceremonial title, but still) - already broke its neutrality in Darnassus. And that it constituted a violation of Dalaran's neutrality is supported even by Jaina's own words, as she considered the prospect of the Kirin Tor aiding Theramore earlier on to be a violation of their neutrality as well. I.e. it was already a co-belligerent of the Alliance, even if it formally joined the Alliance only after the Purge.

It's from the Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm novel and it was a Alliance ship that was wrecked by a... storm if I remember correctly. Also, it wasn't "Horde waters", Garrosh just proclaimed it so and then executed a bunch of survivors before Cairne made him see reason, he then allowed the others to survive. That'd be like the Alliance capturing Horde ships near Tiragarde Keep, executing half the crew and "allowing" the other half to survive.

Tula confirmed it was Horde waters. Cairne admitted to himself that Garrosh was legally in the right. Not even the Alliance captain protested that they were on Horde waters, his defense instead revolving around the fact they were not a threat. Which, as per Garrosh's statements (and Cairne's internal musings), was immaterial to the treaty. And that was followed by no further rebuttals from the Alliance captain, by the way.

Prelude also makes note how both factions were working towards the same "peace" they had before the Undercity, with everyone basicly ignoring Varian's heat of the moment declaration and the Alliance not preparing for war at all.

The factions didn't. Jaina did. Night Elves instead used the Wrathgate (where even the hotheaded warmonger Varian accepted Horde's explanation that it was performed by a traitorous third party) as an excuse to unilaterally break a trade treaty that Orgrimmar depended on.

[AcidicSyn]

What i described to you is literally Cata-MoP or perhaps BfA too. It ALREADY HAPPENED. But on the Horde side. If you think that Alliance dosent deserve equal treatment and similar plot ideas then its you who is deluded.

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Also calling someone a "raging kiddo" is a very weak move.

Just calling a spade a spade, kiddo. Take that rage-boner down a few pegs if you want discussion. I never said anything you're accusing me of, if you're going to respond to me behind rage-goggles why on earth would I take you seriously and not just chuckle at you?

[Mehrunes]

I mean does any one ever contest that it’s horde waters? There’s no reason to doubt the validity of garroshs statements unless we have an actual in world example example to cast doubt.

It was confirmed to be indeed Horde waters by the Horde captain even before Garrosh attacked. Not even the Alliance captain contested that when he was captured later on. His only excuse was that they were not a threat. Which was immaterial to the conditions of the ceasefire as per both Garrosh and Cairne. With Cairne being opposed to the attack from the get go on moral grounds, by the way, so it's not like he thought that to defend Garrosh.

As far as the ship being a wreck that just makes that what ever survivors were more or less saved by the hordes mercy unless had some other way of leaving that’s really not heating up a war at all even if all of the crew didn’t make it back.

They had no means of surviving and that they experienced both the Horde's wrath and its mercy was Garrosh's final point in his exchange with the Alliance captain. Though, by his own admission, he got the idea to spare them and even give them some resources on their way from Cairne.

[Feanoro]

How will removing the position of "warchief" remove any of these problems?
Do you really think the council is not going to start another war or something? by Loth. Even now they are following their new warchief only without the title.
They all do what Thrall wants. He is the war chief and the others have no opinion and if they think they are wrong.

And Thrall ... well Thrall thinks with an apology he fixes everything so he's not the role model either.

When the Horde had culture. Caien asked Mak-gora because Garrosh had no Honor and Voljin practically left the Horde. That is the Orca culture. That is the culture of Honor. That is what the players are looking for.

BFA does not have any of that is more I destroy it. Varock is a coward without honor and Sylvanas is suddenly a bad cartoon.

Ultimately, the only thing that will fix the problems is Blizz writers putting in some actual effort and not taking the lazy way out every time. You're completely correct that this council is worthless. At some point, Blizz will puke out MoP 3.0 to appease the warmongering Horde fans and once again succeed only in pissing off everyone.

I was talking more about orcs specifically, but the warchief position has the same problems as the High King bullshit. (I could mention the High King was Metzen being lazy and reducing the Alliance cast down to Varian and Jaina in Wrath.) There is only the warchief/high king, everyone else is either in lockstep or they're shown to be wrong. I will say that the warchief position has at least been used to show the old saw about "absolute power corrupts absolutely" and would be all in favor of showing Anduin to be equally wrong, especially with his selfish feel-good morality. (The problem there is he's the mouthpiece for Golden's feminist views, by her own admission, so he will NOT be shown to be wrong.)

The problem on both sides is Blizz is only interested in writing stories for the big names, not in world building, not in telling a coherent story.




Also, can we stop with "suddenly Sylvanas is bad"? In WC3, while alive, she was an egotistical moron. In death, she was still an egotistical moron, a betrayer, and a hypocrite. "I was enslaved and it's the worst thing ever! Let me just mind control these guys." In WoW, Classic exists, you can go see for yourself that she was ALWAYS a sadistic villain only out for herself. Recently with the spotlight has it been forced to prominence, not swept under the rug.

[VladlTutushkin]

Just calling a spade a spade, kiddo. Take that rage-boner down a few pegs if you want discussion. I never said anything you're accusing me of, if you're going to respond to me behind rage-goggles why on earth would I take you seriously and not just chuckle at you?

Yeah, fuck off with that condescending bullshit pal. Horde player accusing anybody of rage boner is like a 500 lbs slob laughing at slightly overweight dude who ate one too many pies in the last month.

[DemonHunter18]

Also, can we stop with "suddenly Sylvanas is bad"? In WC3, while alive, she was an egotistical moron. In death, she was still an egotistical moron, a betrayer, and a hypocrite. "I was enslaved and it's the worst thing ever! Let me just mind control these guys." In WoW, Classic exists, you can go see for yourself that she was ALWAYS a sadistic villain only out for herself. Recently with the spotlight has it been forced to prominence, not swept under the rug.

sadly, Blizzard will go to great lengths to white wash her very soon which will start in November when her book gets released.

no doubt Sylvanas simps will say You see!? Sylvanas was never rotten to the core!!!

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It was confirmed to be indeed Horde waters by the Horde captain even before Garrosh attacked. Not even the Alliance captain contested that when he was captured later on. His only excuse was that they were not a threat. Which was immaterial to the conditions of the ceasefire as per both Garrosh and Cairne. With Cairne being opposed to the attack from the get go on moral grounds, by the way, so it's not like he thought that to defend Garrosh.




They had no means of surviving and that they experienced both the Horde's wrath and its mercy was Garrosh's final point in his exchange with the Alliance captain. Though, by his own admission, he got the idea to spare them and even give them some resources on their way from Cairne.

Ah so Then it would surly fall back into cold war grounds and even a merciful act ones at that if not Garrosh's idea.

[AcidicSyn]

Yeah, fuck off with that condescending bullshit pal. Horde player accusing anybody of rage boner is like a 500 lbs slob laughing at slightly overweight dude who ate one too many pies in the last month.

Awww, did I hurt your feelings? Excuse me while I don't care if I'm condescending to someone whose first sentence to me was an insult.

You might consider not drooling out assumptions with every keystroke kiddo, then maybe people might actually engage you in conversation or at least take you seriously, troll.

[Aresk]

The Purge wasn't "ethnic" it was trageting criminals that helped a madman, those criminals happened to be Blood Elves, but Jaina didn't care about their race or ethnicity only their affiliations. It's very disingenuous to protray this as an ethnic cleansing and a glaringly obvious attempt of falsify facts to make it look like the Alliance is on the same level as the Horde.

Part of the ethnic discussion I figure comes down to whether sin'dorei and quel'dorei are different ethnicities. The rest really revolves around targeting a single-ethnic group counts as targeting that ethnicity. While she targeted the Sunreavers because they were Sunreavers, are there instances of sin'dorei who remained in Dalaran (outside of the Violet Hold) after the Purge? I honestly don't know of any, and regardless of whether it was ethnically motivated, taking the actions of a few individuals and then prescribing that punishment on al others that share the same quality (in this case, Sunreaver-ness) is the same type of logic that is the same stereotyping that is used in ethnic attacks. She even murders several Sunreavers before Aethas says a single word to her on the matter. Now, I don't disagree Jaina was fully within her authority to perform these actions, but she is clearly punishing an entire group for something most of them had no involvement in.

Varian was even more of a warmonger then garrosh if Jiana wanted avoid the war she should have stayed neutral instead of helping the bigger war monger start the war hell even siding with the horde would have done more to avoid garrosh attacking her and keep the peace.

she instead literally called garrosh down on her acting in self defensive by helping start the war.

Jaina was never really neutral, though. She was sympathetic toward the Horde, but it was a running joke in my guild that we couldn't understand why Thrall liked Jaina so much in Classic since whenever we tried to talk to her, we'd get killed. Oddly, her biggest ploy for neutrality came just before she plunged really far into the Alliance side (see following quote).

Jaina herself disagreed with Raisei on this. When Kinndy first proposed that Jaina should reach out to the Kirin Tor for aid because she has friends there, it's Jaina that said that they couldn't help her, because they'd be breaking their neutrality in doing so.

Isn't it fun how often Alliance talking points are disproved by the very same Alliance characters they talk about? It's almost as if Alliance fans didn't know even their own faction's side of the story or something.

It happens again shortly after, too. The Wrynns send the Alliance champion to Jaina to try to persuade her to bring Dalaran into the Alliance during MoP. She refuses, stating that it should remain a neutral place. That it's important for Dalaran to remain a symbol of what the Horde and Alliance could achieve. And then, a few questline advancements later, she's turning on her heel, purging the Sunreavers from Dalaran, and getting yelled at by Varian for doing so! It's not surprising that players forget these things when the characters themselves don't stay consistent.

as for Genn not being able to get punished... well... its true Anduin is his equal as king of SW, BUT he is superior to him as high-king of alliance, so supreme leader of alliance forces, and as such, he ORDERED Genn not to engage in Stormheim (Genn said so himself) yet he did attack, and not as king of Gilneas, bcs he didnt only order Gilneans to attack, he ordered ALLIANCE soldiers, put into his command by Anduin, to do so, hence missusing his power, breaking the orders from his commander and breaking the armistice, which is in fact war crime... someone in lower rank should be executed for that, ofc i dont expect Genn to be executed as he is king, but he should definitely get punished, yet he wasnt even scolded...

A few points of order here: Genn was given almost the opposite of the order. He was told to attack the Horde if and only if it was deemed necessary. Genn was given the authority to make that call and made it. Anduin later reprimanded him for taking the order further than he has intended, and thus he was scolded. I think it's fair to say his punishment should have been worse, but he technically acted within the letter of his orders, even if he knew he was defying the spirit of them.

the Horde must lose these narratives because their goal, i.e eliminating the other faction, can't happen because it's a two-faction game.

At this point, if it didn't mean leaving the Alliance races in a narrative jumble, I'd welcome a Horde victory if it meant we could start to eliminate the faction barrier and maybe pursue some stories that it currently prohibits. Unfortunately, I can't see any instance of a Horde victory leaving the current Alliance races playable in some sort of Horde superpower (though maybe we'll have a Mad Turalyon expansion, and Thrall can bring the light of a democratic council to the outdated monarchies of the Alliance refugees).

The Orc culture was dismantled when Sylvanas Griot burned it down. And they didn't cut off his head on the spot.
Destroying the warchief is only the last key.

Orc culture is the Honor and quest for survival that Thrall gave us at W3. But blizzard insists on spitting on those ideals over and over again.

It always struck me a little odd that Thrall was the one to herald in orc culture when he barely had any understanding of it himself at that point. He'd spent some months with Drek'thar and Grommash, but he had been raised entirely within human culture and didn't even understand when an orc had tried to protect him during his slave years.

Complaining about how orc fans should not want the Warchief position that's defined the faction since the first text scroll of the very first game would be akin to trying to gotcha night elves about how they should really be a monarchic society run by mages because that's where they started in-story. So basically turning into ravenmoon, come to think of it.

Heh. That line really got me. Kudos to you!

[Mehrunes]

as for expeling Sunreavers within her rights as ruler of Dalaran... perhaps that could be true, and not viewed as oversteping her powers IF she only used kirin tor troops, and if she actualy only expeled sunreavers...
but if you did the q line you literaly STOP sunreavers from leaving, maim their dragonhaws, kill innocent, hell they fed some sunreavers to shark in underbelly...
maybe that was not the original intention BUT! as person in command she should be held responsible...

She wouldn't have had the right to do that either way. The leader of the Council of Six has so little individual power that they don't even have a tie-breaking vote and can't leave Dalaran without informing the rest of the Council (speaking of which, given how Jaina already broke that rule beforehand, it's more than likely she did so again when she left to break Dalaran's neutrality in Darnassus). Plus we outright saw the procedure of how a traitorous member of the Council is handled (putting aside how Jaina had zero evidence to incriminate Aethas) when Antonidas confronted Kel'thuzad over his endeavors with necromancy. He was assisted by two other members of the Council. Which, with Kel'thuzad most likely being excluded in his own case, gave them a majority.

Also, with perhaps the exception of the shark feeding, Vereesa was following Jaina's orders. Which even she, a staunch Blood Elf hating extremist that went as far as forming a private militia of like-minded High Elf zealots due to the mere prospect of Blood Elves being admitted back to Dalaran, felt the need to state out loud she does not agree with entirely.

[geco]

Oh fuck off from that.

1) Night elfs would be better off with Light since Elune is either impotent or just downright treats them as utterly disposable.

2) Horde better not get anywhere near night elfs or their religion any time soon in the next ten thousand years after what they did.

3) It will not make up for Teldrassil and all those souls in the Maw anyway.

4) Naaru are somehow related to Elune so she is not opposed to the Light as a force.

Remember that Anduin is the Chosen of the Light.

1) Anduin is the Light so "They are not even worse" Although it seemed impossible.

2) Maybe it's misunderstood why I said "Elune" but I mean Elune's side.
Imagine a big fight between Elune's side and the Light side and the Horde attacks the Light side from behind (which according to varock is sure to be honorable. More so if they are civilians.)

3) It will not reward the Kaldorei. but it will make up for much of the Horde's lack of Honor and give a valid reason why Tyrande is not declaring war on them right now.

4) All but the chosen one of the Goddess seem to agree.
And if it were really the case Anduin would have to follow Tyrande's paradigms because she is the chosen one of the goddess and he is only the chosen one of some Naru.

It always struck me a little odd that Thrall was the one to herald in orc culture when he barely had any understanding of it himself at that point. He'd spent some months with Drek'thar and Grommash, but he had been raised entirely within human culture and didn't even understand when an orc had tried to protect him during his slave years.

But that's what we Players see as Orc Culture.
It is the same as saying that the Kaldorei Culture is that of the highborns and the empire of Azhara.

If you want to call it Thrall Culture.

[Mehrunes]

Part of the ethnic discussion I figure comes down to whether sin'dorei and quel'dorei are different ethnicities. The rest really revolves around targeting a single-ethnic group counts as targeting that ethnicity. While she targeted the Sunreavers because they were Sunreavers, are there instances of sin'dorei who remained in Dalaran (outside of the Violet Hold) after the Purge? I honestly don't know of any, and regardless of whether it was ethnically motivated, taking the actions of a few individuals and then prescribing that punishment on al others that share the same quality (in this case, Sunreaver-ness) is the same type of logic that is the same stereotyping that is used in ethnic attacks. She even murders several Sunreavers before Aethas says a single word to her on the matter. Now, I don't disagree Jaina was fully within her authority to perform these actions, but she is clearly punishing an entire group for something most of them had no involvement in.

She wasn't though. The leader of the Council of Six is nothing more than a representative to other nations. They have no individual power of their own and can't even leave the city without informing the rest of the Council.

It happens again shortly after, too. The Wrynns send the Alliance champion to Jaina to try to persuade her to bring Dalaran into the Alliance during MoP. She refuses, stating that it should remain a neutral place. That it's important for Dalaran to remain a symbol of what the Horde and Alliance could achieve. And then, a few questline advancements later, she's turning on her heel, purging the Sunreavers from Dalaran, and getting yelled at by Varian for doing so! It's not surprising that players forget these things when the characters themselves don't stay consistent.

Yes, I know. But I think the case of Theramore was more equivalent to the situation that went on at Darnassus so I went with that example.

A few points of order here: Genn was given almost the opposite of the order. He was told to attack the Horde if and only if it was deemed necessary. Genn was given the authority to make that call and made it. Anduin later reprimanded him for taking the order further than he has intended, and thus he was scolded. I think it's fair to say his punishment should have been worse, but he technically acted within the letter of his orders, even if he knew he was defying the spirit of them.

Anduin disagreed with this assertion. In his inner monologue on the issue he stated that Genn and Rogers both broke his orders. And given how he is the supreme commander of the Alliance forces, if he wasn't such a massive hypocrite about his beloved peace and actually did anything about Genn taking a dump on it, he would have had the final word there.

[VladlTutushkin]

Awww, did I hurt your feelings? Excuse me while I don't care if I'm condescending to someone whose first sentence to me was an insult.

You might consider not drooling out assumptions with every keystroke kiddo, then maybe people might actually engage you in conversation or at least take you seriously, troll.

Very defensive, arent you? Got so arrogant and proud - calling others kiddos while your fragile pride seems to be shaken from anything that is not a buttery smooth pleasantries...

Cut down on vitriol and arrogance and maybe people will start treating you better.