[TV] Neil Gaiman's The Sandman

[qwerty123456]

They don't complain nearly as much when it's white actors that don't match up to the source characters. And they did absolutely nothing to make Jackman look shorter in the movies

Wolverine and Storm in the comics:



Wolverine and storm in the movies



This is what it looks like when they are making effort to make an actor look shorter:



This is not:

They don't complain about white people as much and yet you had people bitching about Lucifer, Jennifer Lawrence in the hunger games, Everytime they replace a redhead with a what ever, Me and other people like 2 days ago about Kraven(I think Aaron taylor johnson looks too young), Keanu as Constantine(he's my fav version tbh), Henry Cavil as the witcher until they saw him, And every time there is a casting of someone that doesn't look as close as another actor a person likes. I'm sure there are more but those are what I could think of off the top of my head.

Like I said they originally went with a much larger Sabertooth. They cut back on making the characters as close later on once it was successful like Wolverine not perma having his "ear" haircut.

https://static.onecms.io/wp-content/...w-112-2000.jpg


Looks taller^ but isn't.

And I've already said you can't ever get an actor to 100% a character. Hugh Jackman's only differences are his height and less hairy arms. If looks don't matter then why bother giving Storm white hair? Because its an iconic part of her character while wolverines isn't his height its his claws.

Its not your version of the character to begin with. You do understand that Lucifer is a mythological figure that's been through dozens of story interpretations? He's not going to be consulting the LAPD in Sandman. He definitely won't be fucking anyone. I shouldn't even be calling Lucifer a "He" since angels don't have a gender. He'll probably still have a contentious relationship with God.

What I mean by their version of the character is the version they like the most. Like for me my version of the dc universe is the DCAU. I would much rather have a dc film based in that universe. That doesn't mean I didn't like the Wonderwoman, Aquaman, and Shazam films.

People like "their" characters which is why there's 8 million Batman movies. If everyone was like you we wouldn't need more then one film about batman would we? Why bothering making another Batman movie when we can have something new?

[Ivanstone]

What I mean by their version of the character is the version they like the most. Like for me my version of the dc universe is the DCAU. I would much rather have a dc film based in that universe. That doesn't mean I didn't like the Wonderwoman, Aquaman, and Shazam films.

People like "their" characters which is why there's 8 million Batman movies. If everyone was like you we wouldn't need more then one film about batman would we? Why bothering making another Batman movie when we can have something new?

Your the one who's advocating that their favourite should be in the new TV show without considering that it may not be appropriate for the story. What you should do instead is read the actual fucking comic (its great!), read Lucifer (the Mike Carey one) and then keep on open mind when this TV show is released.

I didn't watch Lucifer for the longest time because I knew it was a weak adaptation of the comic (which I enjoyed). I did eventually watch it and enjoyed it on its own terms. Gwendoline Christie, Tom Ellis and Peter Stromare all performed the same character but I don't think a particular portrayal is universal or an improvement of the other.

[Egomaniac]

https://static.onecms.io/wp-content/...w-112-2000.jpg


Looks taller^ but isn't.

That's just because Schreiber is closer to the camera. It's called perspective. That's not a technique to make him look taller than Jackman.

When they are standing face to face...they are approximately the same height. When Wolverine is standing with Storm...he is noticeably taller than her. When he is standing with Cyclops, again, they are about the same height. The X-Men movies never did anything to try and make Hugh Jackman look shorter than he is.

In the comics Wolverine is 5'2 and Creed is 6'6. If they were attempting to be comics accurate...the height difference should be far more pronounced than half inch Schrieber has on Jackman.

And I've already said you can't ever get an actor to 100% a character. Hugh Jackman's only differences are his height and less hairy arms. If looks don't matter then why bother giving Storm white hair? Because its an iconic part of her character while wolverines isn't his height its his claws.

Wolverine's height is totally an iconic part of his character....it's why he's named Wolverine...because wolverines are small but ferocious creatures.

So if Wolverine's height isn't important...why is Death's skin colour?

[Ivanstone]

So if Wolverine's height isn't important...why is Death's skin colour?

1. Wolverine's height is important. We just ignored it because Jackman is really good at it.
2. Death's skin colour is entirely irrelevant since she doesn't have skin being a near omniscient, near omnipotent force of the universe. Some people see a pale goth girl when she personifies herself. Others see something different. Everyone sees a friend at the end. That last bit's the only part that matters.

[Egomaniac]

1. Wolverine's height is important. We just ignored it because Jackman is really good at it.

Yeah, that's what I mean, it didn't "ruin the character".

2. Death's skin colour is entirely irrelevant since she doesn't have skin being a near omniscient, near omnipotent force of the universe. Some people see a pale goth girl when she personifies herself. Others see something different. Everyone sees a friend at the end. That last bit's the only part that matters.

I just wonder why people are willing to overlook Jackman's height but not Kirby's skin colour.

The thing about seeing Death as the quintessential is funny to me though...because she's not even the biggest goth in her own family :P.

[qwerty123456]

That's just because Schreiber is closer to the camera. It's called perspective. That's not a technique to make him look taller than Jackman.

When they are standing face to face...they are approximately the same height. When Wolverine is standing with Storm...he is noticeably taller than her. When he is standing with Cyclops, again, they are about the same height. The X-Men movies never did anything to try and make Hugh Jackman look shorter than he is.

In the comics Wolverine is 5'2 and Creed is 6'6. If they were attempting to be comics accurate...the height difference should be far more pronounced than half inch Schrieber has on Jackman.






Wolverine's height is totally an iconic part of his character....it's why he's named Wolverine...because wolverines are small but ferocious creatures.

So if Wolverine's height isn't important...why is Death's skin colour?

And why was he placed in the foreground???

Iconic to you maybe. How many animated shows have him noticeably shorter than everyone? None. He's been depicted as the same size as everyone else except like cyclops and colossus. You're making it sound like he needs to be played by Danny Devito. And height is much less noticeable than most physical traits in films and television which is why Tom Cruise and Robert Downey Jr. look around the same height as many of the taller people in their films like Chris Hemsworth.

Also we are way off topic. And I never mentioned Death's skin color all I said was that you were wrong that people don't complain about white people not looking the same and then mentioned a ton of examples.

Your the one who's advocating that their favourite should be in the new TV show without considering that it may not be appropriate for the story. What you should do instead is read the actual fucking comic (its great!), read Lucifer (the Mike Carey one) and then keep on open mind when this TV show is released.

I didn't watch Lucifer for the longest time because I knew it was a weak adaptation of the comic (which I enjoyed). I did eventually watch it and enjoyed it on its own terms. Gwendoline Christie, Tom Ellis and Peter Stromare all performed the same character but I don't think a particular portrayal is universal or an improvement of the other.

What are you talking about I didn't say any of that. I said that people like characters and want them to be like how they envision them.

[Delever]

Funny how everyone ignored his comment on whitewashing and people raging like mad when it happens.

[Egomaniac]

And why was he placed in the foreground???

Iconic to you maybe. How many animated shows have him noticeably shorter than everyone? None. He's been depicted as the same size as everyone else except like cyclops and colossus. You're making it sound like he needs to be played by Danny Devito. And height is much less noticeable than most physical traits in films and television which is why Tom Cruise and Robert Downey Jr. look around the same height as many of the taller people in their films like Chris Hemsworth.

X-Men: the Animated Series


X-men: Evolution

[Dhrizzle]

No actors look exactly but you can get them close. If looks don't matter then would you have been ok with Donald Glover playing Han Solo in Solo and the other guy play Lando instead? Of course not, you want them to look as close to the original actors as possible. And what did they do to Hugh Jackman to make him look as close to wolverine as possible? They made him get jacked and have that wolverine haircut for the alot of the films. They also had an even taller dude play Sabertooth and then when they swapped actors and had Liev Schreiber who is the same height as Hugh they framed alot of the shots so Liev looked taller.

And again I was pointing out you being wrong that people don't complain about white characters looking different.

Donald Glover would have made an amazing Han Solo.

[Rennadrel]

Realistically speaking, because the Endless are all perceived differently by different people, does it really make sense to have singular individuals portraying the characters? I get it from a continuity of running a show, but in the scope of the lore, having a fixed cast doesn't entirely make sense.

[Egomaniac]

Realistically speaking, because the Endless are all perceived differently by different people, does it really make sense to have singular individuals portraying the characters? I get it from a continuity of running a show, but in the scope of the lore, having a fixed cast doesn't entirely make sense.

Well, they predominantly are in their human-ish forms throughout the series....so it makes sense the tv series would work the same

[qwerty123456]

X-Men: the Animated Series


X-men: Evolution

Yeah exactly like I said.....

[Egomaniac]

Yeah exactly like I said.....

Apparently you need your eyes checked. Wolverine is noticeably shorter than everyone but the children...

[Ivanstone]

What are you talking about I didn't say any of that. I said that people like characters and want them to be like how they envision them.

Sigh. Do we really have to play the re-quote game?

No for me Tom Ellis would be my Lucifer so I would want someone that looks and acts like him

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Realistically speaking, because the Endless are all perceived differently by different people, does it really make sense to have singular individuals portraying the characters? I get it from a continuity of running a show, but in the scope of the lore, having a fixed cast doesn't entirely make sense.

That would actually be pretty neat although it would be wildly impractical for live action. Maybe in the future when we can have cheaper, more effective CGI.

[Syegfryed]

They don't complain nearly as much when it's white actors that don't match up to the source characters. And they did absolutely nothing to make Jackman look shorter in the movies

that is rly not a valid comparison, since the x-man movies were made in a time internet was not so big like it is today, every complaint was little and didn't had as much power

Plus, the reasons why the movies were so garbage was exactly because they were doing things like that making characters distant on their portrait and changing storylines, by example, i for once hate what they did with Cyclops, but by the time the movie was released i don't even remember having a computer to complain

If the x-men movies were made today, people would complain a lot more for sure(like they do with the recent ones) people are always talking about rebooting the x-men universe with more fidelity.

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Apparently you need your eyes checked. Wolverine is noticeably shorter than everyone but the children...

seems like he is the same size as storm.

[qwerty123456]

Sigh. Do we really have to play the re-quote game?

First off I gave an example of what I mean by someone's version of a character. Second I have repeatedly been using the term "their" instead of mine and yet you keep claiming I want X or Y. I have been explaining why people have favorites and why they want "their" character to be the one that continues on in what ever product.

I assume English is a second language for you so I'll try to explain it better: Imagine if someone likes Superman over Batman and they hear a new DC movie is made. They are going to want it to be about Superman. That doesn't mean when it ends up being a Batman movie instead they wont go see it or that they wont like it. It just means they are going to bitch about it not being a Superman movie because they want another film about the character they like. And before you go quoting me again claiming I'm saying that my example is about me I'm just going to state that I prefer Batman over Superman.

And again I was not saying I would bitch about X or Y. I was saying that people do complain about white actors not looking like the white character they were portraying. I was not a Lucifer fan so I quite enjoyed Tom and Peter portraying different versions of the DC Lucifer which entirely different characters aside from the name. I hadn't spent decades of my life reading/experiencing the character and so I didn't have a "superman" to compare them too.

I did however enjoy Constantine and prefer the way they set up that universe and characters and would like a second film with Keanu Constantine. But according to you:

Or you could be open minded and try something new. You have the Lucifer TV show if you're feeling nostalgic.

I think Tom Ellis is great. I don't need for him to play the same character on a different show and I would like to see Gwendoline Christie give Ellis a run for his money.

Nobody should want anything in the same universe. We should all try new things like maybe not constantly responding to someone when they are just trying to troll you. Guess I'll take your advice and stop responding after this.

Apparently you need your eyes checked. Wolverine is noticeably shorter than everyone but the children...

You do realize there are "children" taller than adults right? He's only noticeably shorter than Scott. You also know what average means don't you? I'll give you a hint it doesn't mean use the biggest number.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average

Not sure why you wanna die on this hill but I'm done responding. It's ok to be wrong. Just because you were ignorant and got called out on it doesn't mean you need to spend 40 pages insisting Wolverine should be a dwarf and it's more noticeable than Storms hair color in a thread that isn't about Xmen. Next time you wanna prove everyone is an evil racist just do some research first and don't use a character that contradicts your claim.

[Ivanstone]

First off I gave an example of what I mean by someone's version of a character. Second I have repeatedly been using the term "their" instead of mine and yet you keep claiming I want X or Y. I have been explaining why people have favorites and why they want "their" character to be the one that continues on in what ever product.

You stated your own preference. Next time say what you mean.

I assume English is a second language for you so I'll try to explain it better: Imagine if someone likes Superman over Batman and they hear a new DC movie is made. They are going to want it to be about Superman. That doesn't mean when it ends up being a Batman movie instead they wont go see it or that they wont like it. It just means they are going to bitch about it not being a Superman movie because they want another film about the character they like.

This analogy is terrible. Imagine if somebody liked a particular re-interpretation of a character. When confronted with a new reinterpretation of the same character they do approach it with an open mind or they do lash out on the internet? Some people are lashing out while showing a very poor understanding of the character to begin with.

I was saying that people do complain about white actors not looking like the white character they were portraying.

Again, a black actor is not portraying a white character. A black actor is portraying a mythical being that's 15 billion years old.

Nobody should want anything in the same universe.

And yet here you are defending that attitude.

[Egomaniac]

You do realize there are "children" taller than adults right? He's only noticeably shorter than Scott. You also know what average means don't you? I'll give you a hint it doesn't mean use the biggest number.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average

He's noticeably shorter than Jean, Storm and Scott. You know that you don't count the tips of his mask when measuring height, yes?

Wolverine doesn't even come up to Scott's shoulder...and you think that's "average"?

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that is rly not a valid comparison, since the x-man movies were made in a time internet was not so big like it is today, every complaint was little and didn't had as much power

Plus, the reasons why the movies were so garbage was exactly because they were doing things like that making characters distant on their portrait and changing storylines, by example, i for once hate what they did with Cyclops, but by the time the movie was released i don't even remember having a computer to complain

If the x-men movies were made today, people would complain a lot more for sure(like they do with the recent ones) people are always talking about rebooting the x-men universe with more fidelity.

They've been making the X-Men movies steadily since 2000...

[Syegfryed]

It only causes a commotion because people like you are fragile.

Sure, it is me who is name-calling others trying to look cool.

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They've been making the X-Men movies steadily since 2000...

And only "recently" people are starting to complain heavy about it, not to surprise how the later movies were a fiasco with few exceptions.

Like, rly, its the same as people defending deadpool portrait in that origins movie, But it is was garbage and more people prefer the version they are more familiar with it, it is not rocket science.

[Egomaniac]

Like, rly, its the same as people defending deadpool portrait in that origins movie, But it is was garbage and more people prefer the version they are more familiar with it, it is not rocket science.

What they did to Deadpool in The Wolverine movie was terrible...but that's because they changed the character. The slapped on extra abilities and burned his mouth off. It honestly wouldn't matter who played him at that point. They butchered the character.

Death's Character is not "she's a white goth girl". That's just something she occasionally looks like. It has nothing to do with her character.

She's not a white girl. She's not a black girl. She's not a person. She's the embodiment of the force of death. What colour her skin is on the occasions when she manifests in a human-ish form is completely unimportant. What matters how the series deals with the character.