Did we just get a Dark Ranger skill mega buffed?

[Fantazma]

Comparing a raid boss to what a player might be capable is utterly laughable.

Yes, Illidan was once a raid boss and years later his Demon Hunters became playable and with much more skills than Illidan himself. I think to the dismay of some here maybe we're just watching it happen again. The only question is: will we have Dark Rangers playable still in Shadowlands or only in the next xpac?

[Calfredd]

And to think that if one day Blizzard releases Playable Dark Rangers I'll have two things with endless fun:
1 - Play with my new main-char Dark Ranger.
2 - This thread.

You and Teriz have quite a few things in common: Both are insufferable with your "facts" and overly obsessive with your "class" of choice.

[Ielenia]

The Magic talanji showcases resembling the holy light is also absurd that's the whole Point both are nothing like the actual holy light used by other Paladins.

Except I never said "the magic Talanji showcases resembles the holy light". Stop putting words in my proverbial mouth.

It's not at all a false equivalence as you want to strip away the source and focus only on the function and in the case of warlock/mages/shamans they all have that same end function when it comes to fire and also frost when it comes to shamans/mages.

Says the one who said "why we don't say shamans mages and warlocks are all the same class even though they can all shoot fire."

It's really not as fanfic has never been part of official lore or cannon unlike official lore that has simply been determined to no longer fit into the frame work of the lore making it no longer canon.

And if it was deemed non-canon (which you have yet to prove it was, despite your claims) it would no longer be part of the lore.

do you see the word cannon in there? I don't, Not even any mortar's or artillery that could be mistaken for one.

And I've already explained to you, "canon" and "lore" are basically synonyms in this context. Something cannot be part of the lore and not be canon, and vice-versa.

So you admit he's been a dark ranger since he was raised,he has always had pets,

No. No, I don't. Again: stop putting words in my proverbial mouth. I literally said, and I quote, again: "as far as I know, he was never referred to as a dark ranger until the Legion expansion."

[Fantazma]

having a hard time rebutting my response to you? hunters arent getting a new ability. they are getting a new item. an item that will be replaced before the end of the expansion. the reason hunters are "just now getting a dark ranger ability" is that they are gaining it 100% from looting an item from a dark ranger, and they dont learn it. the bow fires the wailing arrow. take off the bow, no wailing arrow. same with heart of azeroth abilities. just because these items are coming into the game doesnt mean they will introduce a new class.

Sorry, I just forgot to answer you. You are correct if the skill only remains in the legendary bow (and this seems very likely). Therefore, I am consistent and do not intend to try to refute you at this point. Perhaps this legendary bow is the "key in the lore" that allows Hunters to use banshee powers in the near future (for the DR to be the fourth spec of the Hunter since Sylvanas was once a simple hunter too)... or the introduction of this Legendary bow will be used in creating its own Dark Ranger class with Banshee powers. I'm excited about the countless possibilities.

- - - Updated - - -

You and Teriz have quite a few things in common: Both are insufferable with your "facts" and overly obsessive with your "class" of choice.

Who is Teriz?

As for the obsession with the class I'd like to see play I've actually left here all the arguments I have so far. I don't think my arguments are so solid that a developer reads this thread, apologizes for the delay, and introduces DRs now in 9.1...! but the counterarguments here, forgive me, but they are too weak.
It's basically what the friend said on the last page: people are just saying that a guy with a sword is a class. a guy with a sword and holy powers is another class. a guy with swords and necromantic powers is another class. ok for everyone here. but here the thing gets complicated: a guy with a bow is a class. a guy with a bow and necromantic powers.... is ((ERROR)) the same class as the guy with a bow. haha ha...
Anyway, my friend... it gets to be nostalgic. I play since vanila and remember hate with DKs and DHs. The sacred defenders of the lore repudiated the idea of ​​introducing these classes. "Dk is just an undead warrior. We already have undead warriors so forget it. Blizzard will never create the DKs." In short, I love the relationship between time and the impossible. Let's give it time and see what time tells us about "impossible"
peace!

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Except I never said "the magic Talanji showcases resembles the holy light". Stop putting words in my proverbial mouth.

I'm not putting any words in your month I'm pointing out that we have circled back to where we were before for the third time, Ill just requote the post as that's apparently gone over your head.

so we have circled on something else, the Klaxxi Paragons and Twlight hammer members in plate are Paladins Again as the origin of the power is meaningless as long as they get power.

Says the one who said "why we don't say shamans mages and warlocks are all the same class even though they can all shoot fire."

Yes I pointed out the flaws in your reasoning by giving another similar example. Your asserting that they should be stripped down to just there function and the source doesn't matters I Refuted that by giving another example where the function is the same with the difference being the source of said function What exactly aren't you getting here?

And if it was deemed non-canon (which you have yet to prove it was, despite your claims) it would no longer be part of the lore.

It would be a non canon part of lore but still lore.

Rather the description is canon or not it’s not lore as it doesn’t give us any actual info and can have wildly different interpretations as we went over early.

If you had sighted RPG info that actually laid out said description into something of substance then we’d be talking about canon but you didn’t and we aren’t.

And I've already explained to you, "canon" and "lore" are basically synonyms in this context. Something cannot be part of the lore and not be canon, and vice-versa.

And I've already explained that I disagree with your view on Canon and lore and how there Synonyms. You can assert your own view at me all you want I don't agree with it.

No. No, I don't. Again: stop putting words in my proverbial mouth. I literally said, and I quote, again: "as far as I know, he was never referred to as a dark ranger until the Legion expansion."

Fine if you don't want to take the easy out.

Has Nathanos ever been called any thing other then a ranger/dark ranger?

Does any of the lore any where say he became a Darkranger only after Dark mirror.

Did Nathanos have pets Before he was a boss.

are there other dark rangers with pets in wow.

Yes/no answers are preferred To not drag this out further.

[ro9ue]

What a bunch of pretzelling to avoid facing the fact that Dark Rangers are clearly far too close to Hunters to ever become their own class.

Now that with Shadowlands hunters can tame a lot of undead beasts, I think Blizzard can do a Green Fire style quest... maybe one of Sylvanas's former Dark Ranger trainees helps you recover her daggers or something and it gives you some cool cosmetic effects like red eyes and purple shots.

[Ielenia]

I'm not putting any words in your month I'm pointing out that we have circled back to where we were before for the third time, Ill just requote the post as that's apparently gone over your head.

No, they're not paladins. The paladins have a very specific concept.

Yes I pointed out the flaws in your reasoning by giving another similar example.

And I've explained to you why your example fails.

It would be a non canon part of lore but still lore, In my view.

I couldn't care less about "your views" on this subject. This isn't a subjective matter, this is an objective matter: something either is part of the lore, and therefore canon, or not part of the lore, therefore non-canon. What you're saying here is like saying "I know there is a law stating I shouldn't steal, it's just that, in my view, that isn't a law I have to follow". You're literally cherry-picking what is canon and what isn't.

And I've already explained that I disagree with your view on Canon and lore and how there Synonyms. You can assert your own view at me all you want I don't agree with it.

Same as above: this isn't a subjective matter. Something either is part of the lore, and therefore canon, or not part part of the lore, and therefore not canon.

Has Nathanos ever been called any thing other then a ranger/dark ranger?

Your question is misleading, done in bad faith, because you're equating "ranger" to "dark ranger". That's like equating paladins and death knights.

Does any of the lore any where say he became a Darkranger only after Dark mirror.

Once again, your question is done in bad faith. I never said Nathanas "only became a dark ranger after the novel".

[Lorgar Aurelian]

No, they're not paladins. The paladins have a very specific concept.

a concept you have defined multiple times as holy warriors who can heal/protect and wear heavy armour.

All of those apply to the paragons and the TH.

And I've explained to you why your example fails.

and I’ve explained why it doesn’t as to quote you “ The source of the power is not important if the function is the same.” And the function is the same in my examples.

I couldn't care less about "your views" on this subject.

then you shouldn’t be replying to my views on it or trying to assert your own onto me.

You're literally cherry-picking what is canon and what isn't.

I’m not I didn’t bring up canon or the Meta conversation around it at all.

Your question is misleading, done in bad faith, because you're equating "ranger" to "dark ranger". That's like equating paladins and death knights.

so that’s a no he has never been called any thing but those two.

Once again, your question is done in bad faith. I never said Nathanas "only became a dark ranger after the novel".

another no then.

And the following questions would both be answers with yes, so in short

he's been a dark ranger since he was raised,he has always had pets, Dark rangers do in fact have pets, and all of your previous statements about him were a frivolous waste of every one's time based off of nothing.

you just won’t admit it.

[Zmagoslav]

I think blizzard should just rename "classes" into "archetypes", thus ending these endless discussions about whether (for example) X race is a paladin.

A sunwalker is just a paladin, who gains his light from the sun instead of the holy light.
A blood knight is just a paladin, who gains his light from (i guess) the sunwell.
A Dark ranger is practically a marksmanship hunter, who got raised into undeath and uses shadow magic imbuements on his arrows instead of poisons or explosives.

Blizzard should just make a quick challenge quest (doesn't need to be long or difficult), so that dark ranger fans get to play their "class".
All they'd need to do is recolor their skill effects to purple.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I think blizzard should just rename "classes" into "archetypes", thus ending these endless discussions about whether (for example) X race is a paladin.

A sunwalker is just a paladin, who gains his light from the sun instead of the holy light.
A blood knight is just a paladin, who gains his light from (i guess) the sunwell.
A Dark ranger is practically a marksmanship hunter, who got raised into undeath and uses shadow magic imbuements on his arrows instead of poisons or explosives.

Blizzard should just make a quick challenge quest (doesn't need to be long or difficult), so that dark ranger fans get to play their "class".
All they'd need to do is recolor their skill effects to purple.

Honestly I wish they’d just go heavy into the race themes with a toggle like glyphs have Zandalari priest/paladins have spells effects that match up with what we see talanji do, void elfs get void spell effects for disc and holy, light forged get holy effects for shadow and so on and so on. Dark rangers could even be for all three hunter specs for undead and night elfs.

Really show case that while we’re playing the same specs they are different in the lore.

[Kaver]

Dark ranger could be a hunter spec MAYBE but even that is a huge stretch.

If Blizzard allowed Gnomes to be Dark Ranger it would require a massive retcon :P

[Sinfelle]

It's in wowhead:

New general skill:
Wailing Arrow : Fire and enchanted arrow, dealing (185% of Attack power) Shadow damage to your target and an additional (75% of Attack power) Shadow damage to all enemies within 8 yds of your target. Targets struck by Wailing Arrow are silenced for 5 sec.
100 yard ranged (100 yard?? o__O)

This skill belongs to Sylvanas in the HOTS game.
I had already heard that it would be a unlocked skill if you caught the legendary bow in the new Raid. But it looks like they decided to make it a "general skill".

https://ptr.wowhead.com/news/patch-9...stincts-322661

Wailing arrow is confirmed to only come from equipping the Legendary bow that drops from Sylvanas in the new 9.1 raid. The general string for patch notes mean nothing. Ion even confirmed this with his Preach interview.

Additionally, your arguments in this thread about dark rangers having banshee abilities is ridiculous. Sylvanas is both a banshee and a dark ranger. They are not intertwined in any other instance. We have banshees, and we have dark rangers, but Slyvanas is the only one that is both.

Slyvanas can not create anymore banshee's, that is not her power. It would be a by-product of Frostmourne and the Lich King. And they wouldn't dare retcon any part of Arthas' story because that would surely cause the nerds to riot. They may add to it like they have with Shadowlands lore, but they will never change anything from the past. No new banshees.

Demon Hunters create new Demon hunters through a ritual consuming a part of a demon. None of them are are on the level of Illidan, who is stuck in a permanent level of metamorphosis through his enhancements, nor his magical abilities from his time as a mage. Death Knights can continue to be created, but none of them are even close to the Lich King's power. Army of the Dead is literally nothing compared to controlling the entire Scourge across Azeroth. Player DK's command the undead, they do not create them unlike the LK. Arthas was also a Death Knight before becoming the Lich King, in the period between grabbing Frostmourne and sitting on the Frozen Throne. Making that transition gave him access to new abilities not afforded to DK's. He also was not the original DK, Teron Gorefiend was. So DK creation is nothing special, but there is a clear distinction between them and the Lich King.

So your arguments of comparison are invalid and weak. You can be a banshee without being a dark ranger and vice versa, but Slyvanas is the only one that is both. She can not imbue this power on others. New banshees can not be created without the aid of a Lich King, which will not happen, and then they would also have to have ranger training. A possible far reaching idea would be that it could happen through some of the Jailer's magic as he was the one that created the Lich King, but I suspect he'll be dead by the end of the expac and it wouldn't make too much sense for him to create any considering Slyvanas abandoned all of her Dark Rangers already. She also can't raise anyone into undeath without her Val'kyr, which will all be dead by the end of the next raid.

Now I do think Dark Rangers could be a class absolutely, and I think I would enjoy that. But they would have to use shadow, death, and combat skills. Not Banshee abilities.

[Ielenia]

a concept you have defined multiple times as holy warriors who can heal/protect and wear heavy armour.

All of those apply to the paragons and the TH.

Which doesn't since they're not holy warriors.

then you shouldn’t be replying to my views on it or trying to assert your own onto me.

I'm not "asserting my views". I'm telling you how the lore presents us. You're the one cherry picking what is canon and what isn't.

I’m not I didn’t bring up canon or the Meta conversation around it at all.

You are, and I have your post to prove it when you accuse canon information of not being canon.

so that’s a no he has never been called any thing but those two.

another no then.

Once again you dishonestly put words in my proverbial mouth.

- - - Updated - - -

Additionally, your arguments in this thread about dark rangers having banshee abilities is ridiculous. Sylvanas is both a banshee and a dark ranger. They are not intertwined in any other instance. We have banshees, and we have dark rangers, but Slyvanas is the only one that is both.

I would like to point out that the death knights had just as much connection to the lich concept, perhaps even less than dark rangers and banshees, but the playable class still got a spec based off on the frost powers of the lich.

[Fantazma]

Additionally, your arguments in this thread about dark rangers having banshee abilities is ridiculous.
Slyvanas can not create anymore banshee's, that is not her power.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Which doesn't since they're not holy warriors.

they literally are holy warriors they just have a different god then the holy light or Razon and as you said the source doesn’t matter making them paladins.

I'm not "asserting my views". I'm telling you how the lore presents us. You're the one cherry picking what is canon and what isn't.

nope not once have I made any claims on what’s canon and what’s not.

You are, and I have your post to prove it when you accuse canon information of not being canon.

you really don’t as none of my post ever claim any thing is canon or not.

Once again you dishonestly put words in my proverbial mouth

I gave you a chance to clarify your view on any of the info In question and instead of doing so you whinge about dishonesty because you know nothing actually backs up any other answers then the ones I gave.

my post was on the money all of your previous statements about nathanos and dark rangers with pets were based off of nothing and you just won’t admit it.

[Sinfelle]

I would like to point out that the death knights had just as much connection to the lich concept, perhaps even less than dark rangers and banshees, but the playable class still got a spec based off on the frost powers of the lich.

Uh what? I've never seen this comparison made. The icy stuff comes from a general theme and a lot of the DK flavor text of "as cold as death itself" that you'll find on a lot items and spells. Nothrend and the Frozen Throne were literally the inspiration for this. Plus I've never seen Lich associated with frost magic. It may have frost elements, but Lich are pure necromatic death magic. Period.

- - - Updated - - -

Sylvanas has raised exactly zero undead characters ever. Her val'kyr do it, not her. She doesn't have that power.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Uh what? I've never seen this comparison made. The icy stuff comes from a general theme and a lot of the DK flavor text of "as cold as death itself" that you'll find on a lot items and spells. Nothrend and the Frozen Throne were literally the inspiration for this. Plus I've never seen Lich associated with frost magic. It may have frost elements, but Lich are pure necromatic death magic. Period.

Lich’s have been frost aligned since atleast classic naxx if not before, rather that frost is death magic elemental magic arcane or what not we don’t really know other then it’s frost.

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=15990/ke...ities;mode:n10

[Ielenia]

they literally are holy warriors they just have a different god then the holy light or Razon and as you said the source doesn’t matter making them paladins.

Are they? Quote and source for that claim?

nope not once have I made any claims on what’s canon and what’s not.

you really don’t as none of my post ever claim any thing is canon or not.

And again:

Again, you literally did:

Im the dishonest one? I’m not the one pointing to a vague description and claiming it to be lore when it isn’t

Here we have you accusing canon information of being non-canon.

I gave you a chance to clarify your view on any of the info In question

And when I did not reply your questions in a way you wanted, you decide to just claim I wrote things I clearly did not. That is dishonesty.

my post was on the money

It wasn't, and I explained why.

[Sinfelle]

Lich’s have been frost aligned since atleast classic naxx if not before, rather that frost is death magic elemental magic arcane or what not we don’t really know other then it’s frost.

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=15990/ke...ities;mode:n10

/facepalm. KT's use of frost magic does not make all lich associated with frost magic. They are necromatic beings. In every genre, and in every universe. KT was a mage in life, we know this. And now he's back in 9.1 with a few frost abilites as a throwback to his Naxx days, but MOST of his spells are nercomatic death magic.

NECORTIC Miasma
NECORTIC Surge
NECORTIC Empowerment
NECORTIC Destruction
NECROTIC Obliteration

Lich in WoW were granted some frost elements from Ner'zhul for command over Nothrend. But their main power comes from necromatic abilites. The tie between Frost spec DK's and Lich is just not there. Ner'zhul is the reason we have frost dk's

[Ielenia]

Uh what? I've never seen this comparison made. The icy stuff comes from a general theme and a lot of the DK flavor text of "as cold as death itself" that you'll find on a lot items and spells. Nothrend and the Frozen Throne were literally the inspiration for this.

Actually, its inspired from the lich. To the point that the frost death knight trainer is a lich. You can see it in Acherus.

Plus I've never seen Lich associated with frost magic. It may have frost elements, but Lich are pure necromatic death magic. Period.

Really? Two of the four of the WC3 lich's abilities were Frost Nova and Frost Armor. The lich's auto-attack are also bolts of blue magic. And then we have all the liches in WoW, ever since vanilla, using frost magic.