Report: Tax Returns of the Top 25 Wealthiest in America

[Calfredd]

Thanks for proving this is all about punishing the wealthy.

Why do you want to punish the poor?

[JohnBrown1917]

Thanks for proving this is all about punishing the wealthy.

Gotta punish those who exploit others afterall.

[Slant]

Thanks for proving this is all about punishing the wealthy.

Punishing them? THEY GET TO KEEP A BILLION DOLLARS!

I'm not asking for a spanking of Elon Musk. I'm asking for a wealth cap, because greed doesn't help society. It is contraproductive to society. What good is it if companies cater to the wishes of a few? That's not how modern western societies operate. The needs of the many do outweigh the needs of the few. And you don't have to be a socialist to realise that yep, no fucking clue what one guy wants with 100 billion worth of stocks.

Oh, and let's not forget one thing... you are massively oversimplifying the issue here. You know where the real pain is? Tax laws. Anyone dealing with tax legislation knows it's a swamp in a jungle with more traps than Indiana Jones has seen in his entire career. And the normal guys? They fall into all of them. If they have a tax counsellor, they only get thrown into the more obscure ones and may get lucky.

Billionaires? They can afford an entire company of legal tax experts that does nothing but find loopholes for them. The issue isn't "tax the wealth or tax the salary". The issue is that tax legislation is designed to be complicated so the rich can cheap out on their DUTY to society while the poorest people comparatively overpay their duty. I would be happy if Beaty paid just his salary tax. FULLY. No loopholes, no clever trickery. That'd still be a major step up from the current affairs of him using Wall St. basically as his personal tax-free wallet.

[Doctor Amadeus]

The problem with wealth is at least in this country is the lack of fundamental understanding of what that is. Because the truth of the matter is that looks completely different depending on the lens you view it from and that view is almost always wrong.

Some people think they understand the it as a difference between being rich and being poor, which means having enough in life to cover the basic needs and security, while others see it as the ability of having what they want and also having an abundance that allows them a certain access to a better way of life but privilege.

Then there are those that see it as neither of the first two and or maybe both, but also wealth specifically as a resource a finite resource unlike almost any other time in history that now represents more than a better life, or security. Wealth now singularly represents one of the biggest threats to our global environment we face, because NOW wealth can do much more than buy you a solid gold toilet or Lamborghini. Wealth can stifle world economies, hold back social and technological progress and put the wants of the select few ahead of everybody.

Bottom line is that this kind of so called wealth is unsubstantiated, it's illogical and more importantly unsustainable.


A lot of people talk about the gold standard and our lack of anything backed by a fiat money system to make it anything of value, these same people will also preach about Ponzi Schemes like bitcoin.

But the truth is as I said wealth is about how you view it, these people aren't just secure or have an abundance that makes everyone JELLY.

Anyone who cares about the environment or our future on this planet as a race or all species, people are really going to have to give up this idea that resources are infinite and that if you want it all you have to do is go out there and take it.

This is a fallacy one that will ultimately lead to more mindless wars, and civil conflicts along with everything else responsible for the human condition.

[Machismo]

Can we stop pretending that a 401k and millions in stocks is the same fucking thing?

Your annual 401k contributions have a hard cap. Variable as adjusted to cost of living, but set by the IRS. In effect the government has already limited Average Joe from hiding his wealth in stocks.

I could write volumes about how 401k has been a horrible idea from the get go, but that's a different topic.

Your pathetic measly retirement fund or maybe the few thousand to even hundreds of thousands of dollars floating around in mutual funds, bonds, stocks etc are not the same fucking thing as a CEO receiving a few million annually in stock options, or the billions Buffet, Bezos and ilk are sitting on.





Direct me please to the source of the notion that they pay 20 to 35% in taxes. Because if they ever did that, they should instantly fire whoever is their asset manager.

Just because the nominal tax rate is 20-35% that doesn't actually mean they are paying that.

I also have other stocks I purchase, completely separate from my 401k plan.

Their stocks are no different, they just have more of them?

As for tax rates, that was provided in the OP, as they list their income, and their tax burden.

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Why do you want to punish the poor?

I don't.

/10

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Punishing them? THEY GET TO KEEP A BILLION DOLLARS!

I'm not asking for a spanking of Elon Musk. I'm asking for a wealth cap, because greed doesn't help society. It is contraproductive to society. What good is it if companies cater to the wishes of a few? That's not how modern western societies operate. The needs of the many do outweigh the needs of the few. And you don't have to be a socialist to realise that yep, no fucking clue what one guy wants with 100 billion worth of stocks.

Oh, and let's not forget one thing... you are massively oversimplifying the issue here. You know where the real pain is? Tax laws. Anyone dealing with tax legislation knows it's a swamp in a jungle with more traps than Indiana Jones has seen in his entire career. And the normal guys? They fall into all of them. If they have a tax counsellor, they only get thrown into the more obscure ones and may get lucky.

Billionaires? They can afford an entire company of legal tax experts that does nothing but find loopholes for them. The issue isn't "tax the wealth or tax the salary". The issue is that tax legislation is designed to be complicated so the rich can cheap out on their DUTY to society while the poorest people comparatively overpay their duty. I would be happy if Beaty paid just his salary tax. FULLY. No loopholes, no clever trickery. That'd still be a major step up from the current affairs of him using Wall St. basically as his personal tax-free wallet.

So, punish them, by forcing them to sell the company they built, and created.

Yep, that's precisely why this is fucking bonkers.

[Slant]

So, punish them, by forcing them to sell the company they built, and created.

Yep, that's precisely why this is fucking bonkers.

They don't have to sell. It could be taken from them for free. You are not reading me correctly: ONE BILLION DOLLARS. That's the cap. Anything beyond that gets thrown back into the pool for other people to grab and you're barred from business beyond maintaining the one billion dollars. I think that's a genius solution. Don't ever make me world president, I swear I will implement it.

And I find your lack of consideration for the people on whose back those billions are earned, too. See, the ideal company in my head isn't the one that makes the most profit. It's the one that makes the most profit and pays that profit out to its employees!

After investments and such, of course. But the black numbers under that bottom line? Give them to the employees! See how that motivates them to see their company succeed.

[Machismo]

The problem with wealth is at least in this country is the lack of fundamental understanding of what that is. Because the truth of the matter is that looks completely different depending on the lens you view it from and that view is almost always wrong.

Some people think they understand the it as a difference between being rich and being poor, which means having enough in life to cover the basic needs and security, while others see it as the ability of having what they want and also having an abundance that allows them a certain access to a better way of life but privilege.

Then there are those that see it as neither of the first two and or maybe both, but also wealth specifically as a resource a finite resource unlike almost any other time in history that now represents more than a better life, or security. Wealth now singularly represents one of the biggest threats to our global environment we face, because NOW wealth can do much more than buy you a solid gold toilet or Lamborghini. Wealth can stifle world economies, hold back social and technological progress and put the wants of the select few ahead of everybody.

Bottom line is that this kind of so called wealth is unsubstantiated, it's illogical and more importantly unsustainable.


A lot of people talk about the gold standard and our lack of anything backed by a fiat money system to make it anything of value, these same people will also preach about Ponzi Schemes like bitcoin.

But the truth is as I said wealth is about how you view it, these people aren't just secure or have an abundance that makes everyone JELLY.

Anyone who cares about the environment or our future on this planet as a race or all species, people are really going to have to give up this idea that resources are infinite and that if you want it all you have to do is go out there and take it.

This is a fallacy one that will ultimately lead to more mindless wars, and civil conflicts along with everything else responsible for the human condition.

You have called for taking everything but up to $30 million from the wealthy, which means taking away their companies from them.

[Slant]

You have called for taking everything but up to $30 million from the wealthy, which means taking away their companies from them.

Dude, if you gave me 30 million, I'd immediately retire and start writing fantasy novels or some other creative bullshit.

[Machismo]

They don't have to sell. It could be taken from them for free. You are not reading me correctly: ONE BILLION DOLLARS. That's the cap. Anything beyond that gets thrown back into the pool for other people to grab and you're barred from business beyond maintaining the one billion dollars. I think that's a genius solution. Don't ever make me world president, I swear I will implement it.

And I find your lack of consideration for the people on whose back those billions are earned, too. See, the ideal company in my head isn't the one that makes the most profit. It's the one that makes the most profit and pays that profit out to its employees!

After investments and such, of course. But the black numbers under that bottom line? Give them to the employees! See how that motivates them to see their company succeed.

So, straight up nationalization of industry.

Yeah, no thanks.. Stalin.

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Dude, if you gave me 30 million, I'd immediately retire and start writing fantasy novels or some other creative bullshit.

If you had a billion, and someone took away all but that, you'd be pissed.

[Mihalik]

I also have other stocks I purchase, completely separate from my 401k plan.

Their stocks are no different, they just have more of them?

Yes, their stocks and yours are different. You first earned money, paid taxes on it, then bought your stocks, and you'll pay taxes on it again when you sell it because in all likelihood you aren't wealthy enough to perpetually sit on it and just use it as collateral for government backed zero interest loans.

I see that you really have bought into the notion that your wealth, even if smaller than theirs, behaves the same way fundamentally. It doesn't. I know, I started getting stock options as part of my annual bonuses a few years ago. I don't want to go into this at length because again it's a complex fucking topic, but in essence your relationship with money really start to change after you start making above a certain amount, and I interact with people on a daily basis who make more a day than I make in a year and their relationship with money and how their wealth behaves (in the context of the greater economy) is completely alien to what something like 80% of the population can even conceptualize.

As for tax rates, that was provided in the OP, as they list their income, and their tax burden.

Again, nominal tax rates and how much you actually pay in taxes are not the same thing.

[Machismo]

Yes, their stocks and yours are different. You first earned money, paid taxes on it, then bought your stocks, and you'll pay taxes on it again when you sell it because in all likelihood you aren't wealthy enough to perpetually sit on it and just use it as collateral for government backed zero interest loans.

I see that you really have bought into the notion that your wealth, even if smaller than theirs, behaves the same way fundamentally. It doesn't. I know, I started getting stock options as part of my annual bonuses a few years ago. I don't want to go into this at length because again it's a complex fucking topic, but in essence your relationship with money really start to change after you start making above a certain amount, and I interact with people on a daily basis who make more a day than I make in a year and their relationship with money and how their wealth behaves (in the context of the greater economy) is completely alien to what something like 80% of the population can even conceptualize.



Again, nominal tax rates and how much you actually pay in taxes are not the same thing.

So, do they also get taxed when they sell that stock?

Double taxation... gotta love it.

Their taxes are available for you to see, it's a simple division problem.

[Slant]

So, straight up nationalization of industry.

Yeah, no thanks.. Stalin.

If you had a billion, and someone took away all but that, you'd be pissed.

Not nationalisation, redistribution.

I'm telling you repeatedly, a billion would be the cap. You get to keep a billion bucks. So no, nobody would take away my billion, cos that's what I get to keep. 99 billion is excessive, though.

[Mihalik]

So, do they also get taxed when they sell that stock?
Double taxation... gotta love it.

No they don't. But you do, especially as you're unlikely to have an actual accountant/wealth manager doing your deductions correctly.

Their taxes are available for you to see, it's a simple division problem.

Again. GIVE ME A LINK OR A SEGMENT THAT WOULD SUGGEST THEY ACTUALLY PAID THAT AMOUNT.

[Machismo]

Not nationalisation, redistribution.

I'm telling you repeatedly, a billion would be the cap. You get to keep a billion bucks. So no, nobody would take away my billion, cos that's what I get to keep. 99 billion is excessive, though.

So, the government is just going to confiscate their company, and give it to people.. or sell it?

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No they don't. But you do, especially as you're unlikely to have an actual accountant/wealth manager doing your deductions correctly.



Again. GIVE ME A LINK OR A SEGMENT THAT WOULD SUGGEST THEY ACTUALLY PAID THAT AMOUNT.

No, I'm taxed when I sell my stocks, just like they are.

The link is literally in the fucking OP.

[Slant]

So, the government is just going to confiscate their company, and give it to people.. or sell it?

Dude, pick whatever makes you happy. I do not care. You could just redistribute it among the employees of said companies. Once they hit the cap, they retire and the next generation gets the stuff etc. Still an incentive to push the company and eventually you'll close the wealth gap.

What is NOT okay is rationalising the incredibly imbalance in wealth right now with some dry legalese and pretend that's good for society. The US is on the verge of ripping itself apart. See how much money 99 billion is worth once the mob destroys the market, your house and spikes your head on a stick outside Wall St.

[Mihalik]

No, I'm taxed when I sell my stocks, just like they are.

Bro. You're being obtuse.

One more fucking time. They never used taxable wealth to acquire those fucking stocks.

[Dontrike]

SO... find almsot $4 billion in cash, by babysitting?

Or, as I pointed out, literally forcing a guy to sell the company he created, because that company is successful.

God damn, I love being proven right.

The irony of wanting to force people to get a 2nd or third job, just to make ends meet, is not lost on me.

If he sells his company how much does he make again? I don't feel sorry for the rich man still being rich no matter if he is taxed or sells his company.

Besides, there were other suggestions. Selling his body he'll make a ton of money. After all he's fucked millions over and made that money, he can do it again.

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Thanks for proving this is all about punishing the wealthy.

That's exactly what it's about and they absolutely deserve it. Why should the poor be subsidizing the rich's gambling problems? Why should the poor bail them out every time one of them goes bankrupt? How many times have we bailed out airlines now and we have gotten nothing for it.

[Machismo]

Dude, pick whatever makes you happy. I do not care. You could just redistribute it among the employees of said companies. Once they hit the cap, they retire and the next generation gets the stuff etc. Still an incentive to push the company and eventually you'll close the wealth gap.

What is NOT okay is rationalising the incredibly imbalance in wealth right now with some dry legalese and pretend that's good for society. The US is on the verge of ripping itself apart. See how much money 99 billion is worth once the mob destroys the market, your house and spikes your head on a stick outside Wall St.

So... communism.

You're rati0onalizing taking away people's company from them.

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Bro. You're being obtuse.

One more fucking time. They never used taxable wealth to acquire those fucking stocks.

Bro, you're being obtuse. They pay taxes when they sell stocks, just like we do.

They are taxed on their other income, just like we are.
Dude.

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If he sells his company how much does he make again? I don't feel sorry for the rich man still being rich no matter if he is taxed or sells his company.

Besides, there were other suggestions. Selling his body he'll make a ton of money. After all he's fucked millions over and made that money, he can do it again.

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That's exactly what it's about and they absolutely deserve it. Why should the poor be subsidizing the rich's gambling problems? Why should the poor bail them out every time one of them goes bankrupt? How many times have we bailed out airlines now and we have gotten nothing for it.

He's forced to sell it, to pay for the money you want to take from him.

I know you don't feel sorry, that's my whole point.

[Slant]

So... communism.

You're rati0onalizing taking away people's company from them.

Not really, I'm not asking you to nationalise everything and give up private wealth. You get to keep a billion dollars. I am actually puzzled why you keep ignoring this? It's not that difficult a concept. Wealth limit = 1 billion dollars. Anything below that you can do with as you like, anything above that literally doesn't exist for you. You're maxed out. Congratulations, no more goals for you to achieve, you have achieved demigod status.

And. Then. You. Are. Removed. From. The. Game. Put on the sidelines. Force retired. Send to paradise to live out the rest of your life with a billion dollars to spend.

[Shadowferal]

Why should the poor bail them out every time one of them goes bankrupt? How many times have we bailed out airlines now and we have gotten nothing for it.

Wealth gap has only accelerated in the Trump era. Wage slavery has become the norm. A wealth cap is looking far more reasonable than the inevitable societal collapse.