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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    So I have spent the last week in TBC Classic and it's so evident that game is much much more social than Retail. People "have to" do dungeons while leveling for reputation, looking for groups in chat. People "have to" group up to do 4-5 group quests in every single leveling zone. People group up for certain quests naturally. People "have to" find a guild so they can start raiding Kara.

    In the dungeons, people talk and try to explain pull tactics. Just at level 62, in Slave Pens, there is more chatting strategy on how to pull and where to stand, when to put down Tremor Totem, when to AoE, giving healer Mana Pots, asking for Nature Resistance aura from Hunter on final boss and in general asking for water, asking for mana breaks and helping on quest. All this socialization happened in 1 single run of Slave Pens.

    The amount of whispers I did in Shadowlands between 50-60 was 0. Yes, 0. I also am pretty sure I joined a group 0 times. The first time I whispered anything was at 60 to join an early mythic.

    I remember early at 60 in Shadowlands I did a Mythic +0 dungeon on my Shaman and we wiped on 2nd boss in Spires of Ascension (on my 4th dungeon or something) and the only "socializing" that happened was that the tank left and then everyone left.

    What concrete changes would Retail have to do to make people socialize again?

    The thing that makes a MMORPG attractive is the social aspect, no?
    You said it yourself the only way Blizzard can get people to be social temporarily is if they try to force it.

    But in all seriousness after the initial setup TBC Classic is going to be just as not social as retail is, and retail is still pretty social if you find a guild or community and choose to interact with it. Outside of my guild, TBC Classic isn't very social for me and neither was the original TBC. "Tank LF H [Dungeon]" - Then once the group is formed I hit my marking macro to explain the marks to everyone. On particularly complicated pulls I might type out a quick explanation. This isn't a discussion and it isn't being social. It's just telling the group what needs to happen. When the group is over some people will add me to their friend list in order to bug me the second I log in to come tank for them.

    If I need something from crafting I'll type "LF [profession] w/ [recipe] my mats + tip."

    This is the extent of my social interaction with people outside of my guild. This is how it was in original TBC as well. Guild chat is mostly observations about the game and Discord is mostly memes. Just like in retail.

    Group quests are harder, and people have to manually make dungeon groups. That's really about it.
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  2. #162
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    This sounds more like you have an issue with tokens/boosts than anything to do with improving/encouraging socialization.
    'i' have problem or not is unrelated to fact of how tokens ruined social part of gaming, also if i blame only 1 thing, i'll blame LFG the most from wrath era
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    'i' have problem or not is unrelated to fact of how tokens ruined social part of gaming, also if i blame only 1 thing, i'll blame LFG the most from wrath era
    It's not a fact. Its fiction.

    If you want to blame anything, blame game design decision changes because that is literally the only way that could ever influence social aspect.
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  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    Thats weird cause ive run tbc dungeons without a word being said and run retail dungeons with thorough explanations on bosses and trash cc/mechanics before. So your evidence that retail has some social issue to fix is purely an anecdote. I also leveled all of classic with minimal whispers or communication in dungeons and i did most 5 mans on the leveling path.
    You dont even play TBC nice try for strawnman.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    forced interactions arent social interactions

    nice try though.
    I have ALWAYS firmly believed social interactions should be forced. If you want solo, go play something else. Solo play in an MMO is toxic. I don't care what anyone thinks about that.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I have ALWAYS firmly believed social interactions should be forced. If you want solo, go play something else. Solo play in an MMO is toxic. I don't care what anyone thinks about that.
    I guess you don't care that you're wrong, either.

  7. #167
    Herald of the Titans Rendark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I have ALWAYS firmly believed social interactions should be forced. If you want solo, go play something else. Solo play in an MMO is toxic. I don't care what anyone thinks about that.
    So you're saying the second you make your character and log in you should be forced into a group?

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    So you're saying the second you make your character and log in you should be forced into a group?
    I'm saying Blizz focused on the wrong damn thing. They went all solo and multiplayer and zip for social.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  9. #169
    I understand the problem. In retail I know people who whisper the moment I log in / or bnet / discord.
    Having set up a community over the years really helped, and i would blame rated battlegrounds for the luxus of basicaly making communitys without effort.

    However the moment I logged into classic I was alone. Doing quests and dungeons without doing more than saying okay or need mana. Hello usually get a response but not much more.

    Iam not sure how blizzard can fix that issue with classic of being unsocial , as there is no way to introduce community building systema like in retail like rated bg/ arena / hard dungeons / hard raids.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    So I have spent the last week in TBC Classic and it's so evident that game is much much more social than Retail. People "have to" do dungeons while leveling for reputation, looking for groups in chat. People "have to" group up to do 4-5 group quests in every single leveling zone. People group up for certain quests naturally. People "have to" find a guild so they can start raiding Kara.

    In the dungeons, people talk and try to explain pull tactics. Just at level 62, in Slave Pens, there is more chatting strategy on how to pull and where to stand, when to put down Tremor Totem, when to AoE, giving healer Mana Pots, asking for Nature Resistance aura from Hunter on final boss and in general asking for water, asking for mana breaks and helping on quest. All this socialization happened in 1 single run of Slave Pens.

    The amount of whispers I did in Shadowlands between 50-60 was 0. Yes, 0. I also am pretty sure I joined a group 0 times. The first time I whispered anything was at 60 to join an early mythic.

    I remember early at 60 in Shadowlands I did a Mythic +0 dungeon on my Shaman and we wiped on 2nd boss in Spires of Ascension (on my 4th dungeon or something) and the only "socializing" that happened was that the tank left and then everyone left.

    What concrete changes would Retail have to do to make people socialize again?

    The thing that makes a MMORPG attractive is the social aspect, no?
    Generally "forcing" things is a bad idea that just results in toxicity.

    What matters for positive cooperation is just the attitude of the crowd; you caught the wave so you're still with the positivos, you'll find them at any expansion start where people are (re)learning.

    The only way to get that in retail is more consistent / frequent content flow, as well as a bigger content pool (a small pool works quick "optimization" in hand, and that in turn spawns toxic metasheep). Personaly i am often surprised by how much Blizzard neglects its own old content as well as potentially loved community creations.

    Additionally it would help if they broadened the lessons from the great vault: Allow people to work on their character by doing content they want to be doing and severely restrict the rng / luck you can experience meanwhile.

    In summary: make sure that people aren't wasting their time.
    The other day i got a weird timed mushroom on a levelling character in Ardenweald, and in no time at all i had a cozy group going on a weird adventure to kill a mushroom man.

    So yeah: Less stinginess on Blizzard's part would definitely help. And mind you that tossing 2nd hand shit is not generosity; in WoW value of gear (and anything really) is best measured as the proportion of the way you advance towards a true end goal, which tends to be stuff like BiS gear.
    Last edited by loras; 2021-06-09 at 02:27 PM.
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  11. #171
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I'm saying Blizz focused on the wrong damn thing. They went all solo and multiplayer and zip for social.
    Forcing people into socialising will just make people end up hating it and create negative and toxic behaviours. If you want social interactions, join a guild/community/etc, telling blizz to force everyone to be social is just downright terrible design and its just a joke that you dont see it.

    What if we take a different scenario with the same way of thinking? Should everyone also be forced to pvp? Pet battle?
    Last edited by Nnyco; 2021-06-09 at 02:10 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by BraveNewWorld View Post
    Wait 4-5 months, and try looking for a group for these 5man group quests. Good luck and have fun.
    I had no problem finding players for group Q 1,5 year into classic. There are always new players leveling up or people leveling up alts. Always.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Forcing people into socialising will just make people end up hating it and create negative and toxic behaviours. If you want social interactions, join a guild/community/etc, telling blizz to force everyone to be social is just downright terrible design and its just a joke that you dont see it.

    What if we take a different scenario with the same way of thinking? Should everyone also be forced to pvp? Pet battle?
    And you couldnt be more wrong. Forcing players into social inteactions is only way how to make mmorpg social experience. Becouse what isnt forced also isnt mandatory. And what isnt madatory is completly useless to do. People just love to use this word "forced" to point out on something they dont like in otder to look like its bad. Do you know what is also forced? Raiding, Mythic+, PvP, etc... or is it simply mandatory??? Making content mandatory for groups doesnt mean its forced.

  13. #173
    Not everyone plays WoW because it's a MMO, some play just because they like the setting and endure the presence of other players.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    I guess you don't care that you're wrong, either.
    He isnt. Anyone playing mmo and expecting that he should never be put into situations where he should be playing and talking to others players simply plays wrong game.

  15. #175
    You even out the skill difference between players. You no longer allow any mode of dungeons to be an assured successful run and make world mobs dangerous solo never mind in groups. If you don't kick a 3s spell from a world mob your hp should be dropped by at least a fourth.

    WoW only has such an issue because its one of the few games that stays the same difficulty from start to finish unless you purposely seek out harder modes.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I never said you should. In fact, if you play BCC, you will see people group up to get kills. Hence, social.
    Because the game actively punishes you with no shared tagging. You either group up or are an enemy to your own faction competing for kills.

    Every time I’ve grouped to share tags nobody talks, we complete the quest, then say “ty” and go on our way.

  17. #177
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias1337 View Post
    I had no problem finding players for group Q 1,5 year into classic. There are always new players leveling up or people leveling up alts. Always.

    - - - Updated - - -



    And you couldnt be more wrong. Forcing players into social inteactions is only way how to make mmorpg social experience. Becouse what isnt forced also isnt mandatory. And what isnt madatory is completly useless to do. People just love to use this word "forced" to point out on something they dont like in otder to look like its bad. Do you know what is also forced? Raiding, Mythic+, PvP, etc... or is it simply mandatory??? Making content mandatory for groups doesnt mean its forced.
    You couldnt be more wrong if you think like that. You can let people choose if they want to interact with eachother, not make em.

    But that is basically just a prime example for a shortsighted mindset. Why make something good if you can just do something easy. Why add a social system in the game that people enjoy when you can just force em into a half arsed one.
    Last edited by Nnyco; 2021-06-09 at 06:08 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

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