Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[tacoloco]

Except in this discussion. I say cow is a human because it has eyes, ears, brain, an organ which pumps blood into its body. Just like a human. Its human.
You can explain me it is not human, but isnt that just semantics and arguing for the sakes of arguing?
I’ve played the game for 17 years, havent bought gold once. Havent bought a boost once.
Why am I here telling everyone it is not pay to win?
My brother has played 17 years too, he has 2 million gold. Never played AH and I think he never even uses it, doesnt buy anything. Has 30k achievement points, near 500 mounts. Never bought token or gold or a boost. Now that is some facts, and that is a fucking living proof that the game is not pay to win, but you dense mot***********rs dismiss all I said, and say it is pay to win because you CAN use your goddamn money for some irrelevant stupid shit like a cool mount, transmog or an achievement or BoE item in AH.
You havent even seen a pay to win if you say wow is one.


And just to avoid infraction: *********** = hwingedlove

People aren't talking semantics in this thread. They're talking about nuance and perspective. Different people have different ideas of what P2W means and your claim isn't any more correct or valid that most people's opinions. And no, your commentary about your brother is not proof that P2W doesn't exist. It's just an anecdote about someone who didn't use any outside help.

And seriously, a censored insult is still an insult and frankly pretty rude.

[potis]

That doesn't even make sense....Being terrible at the game?. So your idea for playing WoW, is to farm gold and play the game for the sake of farming gold using "some strategy" that you propose to farm gold?. That sounds like you play the game to pay it, that sucks.

This is about the Token and Boost to be P2W. Not on how to farm gold

Yeah i had a feeling you wouldnt understand.

Let me dumb it down as expected, gold in game is irrelevant,or generally it has been made irrelevant for the last , i dont know 10 years or so, unless you are either in the top 5 guilds or terrible at the game, any other discussion about it shows how clueless you are.

You can be competitive and up to par with very few hours invested into the game the way it has been designed.

You should drop out of the discussion, you literally are out of your safe zone.

[phattsao]

WoW is many things but it's not "pay to win".

At the very most you could claim boosts are "pay to save time", but don't they only sell boosts if you've already leveled a character to the max on your own?

And boosted players are basically a free kill in PvP and denied from every group unless they have friends carrying them. Still have to get the gear and beat the encounters. Not exactly pay to win.

Even the "New World" complaints seem overblown. It seems you can pay to have your hearthstone reset or something? Doesn't sound exactly game-breaking to me.

[potis]

Gold is irrelevant?. Dude....Gold is super relevant. And always have been in WoW. No shit we have now Tokens to sell gold and how the Chinese used to sell gold back then. Now with the Token, you can get 190k easily and get all that you need from players or AH.

Please, if you are going to make a discussion at least make sense...Gold is relevant in the game

Again, its relevant to you that does not know how to play the game properly and will use whatever excuse as to why.

For some its their 200 kids, for others its their work, or whatever else, there is always an excuse.

The only actual thing going on is that you are bad at the game and dont even understand how it works and you are paying for something that is piss easy, because you lack the intellectual capacity to achieve it yourself.

The same way people pay IT guys to do basic shit that require 30 seconds of googling.

You dont even know that the people that are boosting are mostly young adults that use the gold they gain to convert to WoW Balance for Hearthstone, or to buy other Blizzard games along with their sub.

Yeah the communities will RTM on the side with either some big guild or some person same as you and eventually get banned but thats the same thing.

Same as always in mmo-champion, you are talking about things you dont even understand you flat-earther intelligence person.

[Drusin]

.
This is not only an increase in Player Power, it´s the pure definition for Pay to win! "You want this? Just pay me X Gold and you get it."
...
What do you guys think? Is WoW really pay to win nowadays or am I just over interpreting something in this?

So your definition of pay 2 win is "You want this? Just pay me X Gold and you get it." ? Guess wow is P2W for you then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I tend to lean towards "You can buy things unobtainable in game without paying that makes you more powerful than nonpaying players" since wow doesn't have anything like that it'll never fall into P2W for me.

[Cuppy]

People aren't talking semantics in this thread. They're talking about nuance and perspective. Different people have different ideas of what P2W means and your claim isn't any more correct or valid that most people's opinions. And no, your commentary about your brother is not proof that P2W doesn't exist. It's just an anecdote about someone who didn't use any outside help.

And seriously, a censored insult is still an insult and frankly pretty rude.

I don't think this is a matter of opinion, just like a fact(yes, a fact) that a cow is not a human. There are opinions, which are obviously entitled, but you simply can't have facts stated as opinions, and vice versa. It ruins everything. If you think I'm wrong, we can right away start arguing whether we live on a flat earth, because like you said it's nuance and perspective yes? Cows are humans because I think so, sky is not blue, it's actually pink, because that is my opinion. Watching a movie is pay to win because I have to eat popcorn while I do it. They sell popcorn at the theater so I guess it's a pay to win movie.

My anecdote about someone who didn't use any outside help, is all you need. What else do you want? Let's put this in a very simple form:

You claim the game is pay(paying money) to win(to achieve your "win", whatever that is)
I show you this player who did not pay to "win", but still "won". It is a fact, simple as that. Do you understand what is the difference between a fact and an opinion?
It's true, and it's right here for you laid out in the simplest form I can come up with.
I'll make you another example, where I use something that is really pay to win.
You claim this game-X is pay to win.
I play the game and die to an enemy. I read that I have to stun this said enemy. I have to get "stun the opponent for 5 seconds" skill from the shop. This is the only way I can stun my enemy in this game.
This, is pay to win. No one gets past this enemy without using this stun, which you can buy from the store. Pay. To. Win.

[Drusin]

Anyone else here thinks Gold is Irrelevant?

Me, but I don't need it for anything, I don't buy consumables or crafting mats, gold is strictly there to buy vanity items and repair so to me it's irrelevant and I think you two goofballs should discuss HOW gold is or isn't relevant to you and not if it is or isn't relevant. Because before you understand what each other is saying you won't get anywhere in your conversation.

[Stardrift]

I can purchase gold with real money

I can use gold to purchase carry runs for gear

Therefore, I purchased gear with real money

On top of that, I can purchase level boosts to skip part of the game.

Therefore, the game is P2W.

There is nothing else to discuss here. /Thread

[Drusin]

I can purchase gold with real money

I can use gold to purchase carry runs for gear

Therefore, I purchased gear with real money

On top of that, I can purchase level boosts to skip part of the game.

Therefore, the game is P2W.

There is nothing else to discuss here. /Thread

All of what you mentioned is available in game to people who don't pay, therefore the game is not p2w

/reopens thread

[Cuppy]

I can purchase gold with real money

I can use gold to purchase carry runs for gear

Therefore, I purchased gear with real money

On top of that, I can purchase level boosts to skip part of the game.

Therefore, the game is P2W.

There is nothing else to discuss here. /Thread

I can farm gold for free

I can use that gold to buy store things by converting a token to blizzard-currency

I can sell store things for real life currency like euros and dollars

Therefore...game is play to get paid

/reopens thread, locks it open and tosses the key away to a black hole thus making it open forever!111

[rhorle]

Now with the Token, you can get 190k easily and get all that you need from players or AH.

Which shows that the game is not designed towards the token but that the game is designed to have a slow gold gain. The reason why many use the token instead of gaining gold in-game is they find it easier to work an hour at a real job then to work hours in-game to earn gold. WoW has always been like this except for two expansions. WoD and Legion. WoD made it massively easier to obtain gold with little work. Legion corrected it slightly but it was still there. BfA and Shadowlands brought gold making back to the old levels for the most part.

Note that the token was introduced to the game at the same time Blizzard made it super easy to obtain gold. The problem with making gold easier to obtain is that it creates inflation. Sure inflation happens naturally each expansion but printing money like in WoD gave it a turbo boost. Suddenly millions of players had excess gold with not much to spend it on. That is when boosts grew in popularity. The perceived lack of content likely lead to it. The evolution of MoP challenge modes and limited events likely helped. The excess gold many now had was perfect to get meet a goal they otherwise wouldn't be able to do.

The token had little to do with any of this design. Now you can believe that Blizzard had a Scrooge McDuck level conspiracy just to make more money but everything you say encourage the buying of tokens existed with the game prior to the token being introduced. Gold being relevant or not is subjective but for the most part I think gold is less relevant then earlier in WoW. Most people gain enough to cover repairs. Flasks, feasts, etc for raiding or group play can easily be covered or enough players have alts/friends/guildmates that gladly provide. It still has uses but WoW is long past the days of struggling for the basics so how relevant has declined.

[potis]

snip

Dear god, i dont know where to begin, i already i am getting infracted so i will go full in.

'Using the Gold to turn into Account Balance and get expansions/wow store items/services is unfair advantage, other people need to pay for those. Giving 190k to another guy for "Real Money" is unfair to players that doesnt slip the Credit Card, and that guy is going to use that gold to Power himself up with the AH and other players services.'

So basically the capitalist world we live in in the last 100 years, right? You are so dense, dear god.

People stay subbed so i can get more raids while you complain about how hard things are and boosts is the only way.

And also, people let me know what empowering player services exist that no one else but you has noticed, i really want that EMPOWERING PLAYER SERVICE for my credit card.

[rhorle]

So, if i start a new B.Net account, in WoW, and i sell a token and i get 190k on my character....Then i proceed to buy a boost and become 50-60....That doesn't mean the game is not designed toward using these services?...It provided me with a huge boost right there, dont you think?.

No. Because the game is designed for group play. Always has been from the start. Boosts are just group play for a different purpose then enjoyment, fun, or loot for yourself. The game has always allowed for boosts to happen. They just were not as common before WoD when a lot more people were able to easily amass a fortune.

You got a huge boost but it is no different then being carried by friends. It is no different then any other form of group play the game has always been designed for. This was common in TBC due to the attunements. New recruits sometimes needed to be boosted through older content just to be attuned and it was a problem for low to middle end guilds. Because those low to middle guilds would sometimes be used as a stepping stone to get attunements out of the way for the higher end guilds.

[potis]

Snip

Because you have no idea what P2W is, how it works and what it is about.

Because you dont understand that there is nothing to win in the things you are saying because they have the difficulty of 0, they dont have the difficulty of 1 to 10, they are literally 0.

You are the same as the guys that pay for part of my services that it took me 5 mins to learn by googling when i was 14 year olds because they are incapable of basic common sense.

You are literally saying you need to pay to count to 5, cause thats what buying a boost to level, in your terrible example is, counting to 5.

As i said to the last two posts, you have no idea what you are talking about and how things work like the majority of this forum lately which boils down to 1 thing.

You are bad at World of Warcraft.

[rhorle]

What is this @rhorle, now you are contradicting yourself?. I should have returned to your first posts, you just lied pages ago saying Boost is not a P2W. Why you suddenly changed your mind?

I have not lied. I have always said in this thread that the level boost is pay to win. I told you this yesterday when you tried to claim I stated it wasn't pay to win. Stop ignoring what you are told. In the past I have said it is not pay to win but when I thought about it for this thread I realized that it is technically pay to win. It doesn't matter if the advantage gained is low or irrelevant for end-game it is still an advantage being directly bought from Blizzard for money.

[potis]

Maybe....you dont understand what is P2W?. You didnt read the thread right?

Please read it, there are tons of descriptions for P2W right there. I wont be doing your homework of posting it for you. I even posted a link a moment ago.

And please...dont pretend that you know me. You dont know me. So please stop trying to "Read Me", read the thread and educate yourself.

Man, you literally called leveling in world of warcraft as something that makes it P2W, which means you have the IQ of a potato.

Thats how far your knowledge about the thing goes.

Let me help you out since i am still allowed to post.

Neverwinter Nights online 7 years ago or 9 when it got released, and after you were done doing the basic gearing up and leveling, you had to buy enchants, those enchants had ranks, 1 to 9 back then.

Rank 1 to 6 could be found in game, 7 to 9 had to be bought from the in-game store or wait the 2 weeks for the extra dungeons to open that would allow the tiny chance of obtaining them.

Thats P2W you clueless ape, when things dont exist in game or require an insanely long time to farm over paying 5$ for it.

[Stardrift]

All of what you mentioned is available in game to people who don't pay, therefore the game is not p2w

/reopens thread

Purchasable with real bux

/Thread

- - - Updated - - -

I can farm gold for free

I can use that gold to buy store things by converting a token to blizzard-currency

I can sell store things for real life currency like euros and dollars

Therefore...game is play to get paid

/reopens thread, locks it open and tosses the key away to a black hole thus making it open forever!111

Can still use cash to buy power

/Thread

[Drusin]

Purchasable with real bux

/Thread

- - - Updated - - -



Can still use cash to buy power

/Thread

But no power unobtainable via in game methods /reopens threads

[Rinaul]

Until the gold you get with tokens and the mounts you buy with your weekly allowance also give you skills to be good in the game and not just outgear somethings so your bought ilvl makes you on par with a fresh capped toon... No, it's not pay to win

[potis]

Now i know you are just trolling. And badly. I have defended my points with Links, Evidence and Descriptions of why this is a P2W. Set examples and other ways to make it clear how is the Token + Boosts nothing more than a mechanism of P2W. Even other guys out there see it.

So basically, an anti-vaxxer, IQ of a potato, buT "MaH reSouRCeS" and "natural oils".