Report: Tax Returns of the Top 25 Wealthiest in America

[Endus]

There's that word again, I'm enjoying this.

So, you're taunting me because . . . why, again?

All from a dude who doesn't believe in private ownership of any business.

And? What, exactly, do you think that proves?

That you've caught me out for being a socialist? Hey, look, 2014 called (if not earlier);

You say that like "socialist" is a bad word.

I'm a liberal market socialist, by ideology. There's nothing wrong with socialism.

That's never been a secret.

[Machismo]

https://labornotes.org/2020/12/build...queeze-drivers

There you go.

That literally just talks about having lots of drivers...

Are you fucking serious? Don't just google it, and expect the first thing on there to actually back the narrative.

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So, you're taunting me because . . . why, again?



And? What, exactly, do you think that proves?

That you've caught me out for being a socialist? Hey, look, 2014 called (if not earlier);



That's never been a secret.

I'm not taunting you, I'm calling you on your bullshit. You disagree with the premise of ownership, so you want to whine that my argument cannot apply, because you disagree with ownership.

That's like trying to argue the election with a Trumpster who thinks he won.

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So, lobbyism needs to end? Do you have an idea what would happen to Wall St. and the rich if they didn't have a lobby in Washington? Man, it would be a massacre.

Probably the same thing that would happen to BLM, gay rights, abortion rights, and many other things.

It would be a massacre.

[Bodakane]

Once again, it's your fucking narrative.

The fuck are you talking about?????


Its not a goddamned narrative. Its fact.

[Shadowferal]

So, lobbyism needs to end? Do you have an idea what would happen to Wall St. and the rich if they didn't have a lobby in Washington? Man, it would be a massacre.

The moment corporate personhood dies the death it deserves will be the moment for campaign finance reform...and every goddamned big business and organizations can kiss "We the People's" collective ass.

[Machismo]

The fuck are you talking about?????


Its not a goddamned narrative. Its fact.

Great, then where's the quantifiable evidence for that fact?

[Endus]

I'm not taunting you, I'm calling you on your bullshit.

And yet, you can't actually detail anything as being "bullshit".

You disagree with the premise of ownership, so you want to whine that my argument cannot apply, because you disagree with ownership.

"Ownership of the means of production."

And to repeat; your argument is recursively begging the question, meaning it fails on the basis of objective internal logic. That it's also predicated on an entirely undefended personal opinion that you've made no effort to defend the merits of, that's a separate issue. Hell, your argument boils down to shouting "I LIKE CHOCOLATE MALK!" really loud and then mocking anyone who disagrees. You haven't actually made an argument for your position, you've merely stated it by recursive fiat.

[Machismo]

And yet, you can't actually detail anything as being "bullshit".



"Ownership of the means of production."

And to repeat; your argument is recursively begging the question, meaning it fails on the basis of objective internal logic. That it's also predicated on an entirely undefended personal opinion that you've made no effort to defend the merits of, that's a separate issue.

Nope, wrong again.

Objectively wrong, as they say.

I'm literally pointing to reality as the world, including the one you live in, knows it.

"You can't talk about President Biden around me, because i believe Trump won!!!"

[Endus]

Nope, wrong again.

Objectively wrong, as they say.

I'm literally pointing to reality as the world, including the one you live in, knows it.

Yeah, you're just taunting at this point.

Economics theory is not "objective reality".

[uuuhname]

The fuck are you talking about?????


Its not a goddamned narrative. Its fact.

ask them to actually address "the narrative" instead of crying over it. because it seems they're upset that people are using basic logic and reasoning to reach their conclusions, while they are either too lazy or incompetent to do the same themselves.

[Machismo]

Yeah, you're just taunting at this point.

Economics theory is not "objective reality".

The last time I checked, private ownership exists in both Canada and the United States.

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ask them to actually address "the narrative" instead of crying over it. because it seems they're upset that people are using basic logic and reasoning to reach their conclusions, while they are either too lazy or incompetent to do the same themselves.

I did, and I'm calling for him to provide evidence.

Fucking crickets.

Maybe you can find that evidence that led to a logical and reasoned conclusion.

[Endus]

The last time I checked, private ownership exists in both Canada and the United States.

Do you not understand the difference between theory and practice, or something?

We were discussing theory. Now you're deflecting to practice.

I should note that collective ownership also exists in both places. Which is irrelevant, really. But underscores how silly your angle here is.

[Slant]

I'm not taunting you, I'm calling you on your bullshit. You disagree with the premise of ownership, so you want to whine that my argument cannot apply, because you disagree with ownership.

That's like trying to argue the election with a Trumpster who thinks he won.

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Probably the same thing that would happen to BLM, gay rights, abortion rights, and many other things.

It would be a massacre.

A social market economy doesn't reject the idea of private property. Germany and other European countries run their countries based on social market economy. The emphasize, however, is that capitalism serves society, not the other way around. And that means that in extreme cases, yes, the state will absolutely take a hand in matters and make sure the players in that economy are playing fair. In Germany we do that by strengthening labor law and the unions, regulating markets where one player dominates the market (internet and telecommunications is like that, cos guess what, 100% of the cables used to be owned by the state-run postal service that was privatized... so now you have a stock company owning 100% of the telecommunication infrastructure... yeah, the hell we'll let them do with it as they please) and so on and so forth...

The state also takes control by maintaining minimum shares in big companies. Lufthansa, Volkswagen... they have their states own like 25% of the shares or so. Why? So nobody can just take that company and sell it off piecemeal, they are important job providers. No socialism here, no foul play. It's still very much a private company owned by literally one or two families.

You need to know what you're talking about before you can dismiss it, and that seems to be your problem.

[Machismo]

Do you not understand the difference between theory and practice, or something?

We were discussing theory. Now you're deflecting to practice.

I should note that collective ownership also exists in both places. Which is irrelevant, really. But underscores how silly your angle here is.

You were ignoring actual economic practice.

[Endus]

You were ignoring actual economic practice.

Did not ever happen.

Why do you insist on inventing straw men?

[Machismo]

A social market economy doesn't reject the idea of private property. Germany and other European countries run their countries based on social market economy. The emphasize, however, is that capitalism serves society, not the other way around. And that means that in extreme cases, yes, the state will absolutely take a hand in matters and make sure the players in that economy are playing fair. In Germany we do that by strengthening labor law and the unions, regulating markets where one player dominates the market (internet and telecommunications is like that, cos guess what, 100% of the cables used to be owned by the state-run postal service that was privatized... so now you have a stock company owning 100% of the telecommunication infrastructure... yeah, the hell we'll let them do with it as they please) and so on and so forth...

The state also takes control by maintaining minimum shares in big companies. Lufthansa, Volkswagen... they have their states own like 25% of the shares or so. Why? So nobody can just take that company and sell it off piecemeal, they are important job providers. No socialism here, no foul play. It's still very much a private company owned by literally one or two families.

You need to know what you're talking about before you can dismiss it, and that seems to be your problem.

I do know what I'm talking about, you were discussing lobbying.

I pointed to other lobbies that would be crushed.

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Did not ever happen.

Why do you insist on inventing straw men?

I was discussing economic reality.

My premise is reality, and you were rejecting that premise.

[Endus]

I was discussing economic reality.

Not when you were arguing that "people should be able to start and own a company", you weren't.

Emphasis on the "should". That's a statement of theory, not an observation of reality.

[Slant]

The moment corporate personhood dies the death it deserves will be the moment for campaign finance reform...and every goddamned big business and organizations can kiss "We the People's" collective ass.

I don't think corporate personhood (as in them being legal entities that can sign contracts etc) is the issue. The issue is that none of what their CEOs do is considered criminal and thus they're never punished.

[downnola]

I'm not at all surprised to see how a thread created just yesterday is already at 50 pages.

Also, soak the rich.

[Machismo]

Not when you were arguing that "people should be able to start and own a company", you weren't.

Emphasis on the "should". That's a statement of theory, not an observation of reality.

That is literal reality, and I was saying I support that economic reality.

[beanman12345]

I don't think corporate personhood (as in them being legal entities that can sign contracts etc) is the issue. The issue is that none of what their CEOs do is considered criminal and thus they're never punished.

Yup it's the legal bribery, that's the issue.