Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[RobertoCarlos]

People who think it's not pay to win are living life with thier head in the sand

[TheRevenantHero]

People who think it's not pay to win are living life with thier head in the sand

It's more like they outright refuse to acknowledge WoW's flaws. These are the same people who say Shadowlands is a good expansion.

[iinverse]

It's more like spending money as a race car driver and spend $500 for a 30 second headstart. Can the other drivers win? Maybe but you still have an advantage over them.

Nope. Race isnt even started while everyone leveling. Advantage is you pay - you have say one lockout before any others start to raid. But it isnt.
In your example is like to pay for taxi to arrive for race a 2 weeks before and still wait 2 weeks till actual race.
You think that its advantage, but actually it isnt (and I believe Blizz knows it, just a way to get your money, but without giving you any advantages).

[TheRevenantHero]

Nope. Race isnt even started while everyone leveling. Advantage is you pay - you have say one lockout before any others start to raid. But it isnt.
In your example is like to pay for taxi to arrive for race a 2 weeks before and still wait 2 weeks till actual race.
You think that its advantage, but actually it isnt (and I believe Blizz knows it, just a way to get your money, but without giving you any advantages).

Once again, you can say it's not an advantage all day long but that's only your opinion. Meanwhile, the facts dictate that BY DEFINITION it's an advantage. So you're entitled to your very wrong opinion.

[rhorle]

WOD Garrisons = You don't pay cash = You win Gold by playing the game = No Pay To Win

How did you have access to them with out paying cash for a subscription? Cash -> Subscription-> Gold -> Pay to win. Everything you keep using to link Tokens to Pay to Win apply to subscriptions. Because the only difference is substituting token for subscription.

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I play Football, i pay the NFL cash to win a game = Pay To Win.

Yes. You are directly Paying the NFL to decide a game for you. The token is paying Blizzard $5 and a player $15. It is not paying the separate players that actually get you the win.

[TheRevenantHero]

How did you have access to them with out paying cash for a subscription? Cash -> Subscription-> Gold -> Pay to win. Everything you keep using to link Tokens to Pay to Win apply to subscriptions. Because the only difference is substituting token for subscription.

Bringing in subscription to the debate is a MASSIVE strawman. Stop it.

[rhorle]

It's more like they outright refuse to acknowledge WoW's flaws. These are the same people who say Shadowlands is a good expansion.

Didn't you think it was a good expansion until you got banned?

[iinverse]

Once again, you can say it's not an advantage all day long but that's only your opinion. Meanwhile, the facts dictate that BY DEFINITION it's an advantage. So you're entitled to your very wrong opinion.

Your all arguments like "its not an advantage on your opinion". But its an advantage by your opinion, not everybody else. Everybody else leveled toon by 2 days and whines on forum that there is no content.

[rhorle]

Subscription = Access to the Server = Service

You are still paying to win with a subscription though. A token is just a service to trade money for gold.

[iinverse]

The moment you used the credit card/money to get an advantage over other people = Pay to Win

How you can win if regardless of paying money (even if you pay millions), you will never reach a good f2p player performance? You paying, but you're not the winner, you're just in the middle.

[TheRevenantHero]

Didn't you think it was a good expansion until you got banned?

No. I didn't.

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Your all arguments like "its not an advantage on your opinion". But its an advantage by your opinion, not everybody else. Everybody else leveled toon by 2 days and whines on forum that there is no content.

It's an advantage BY DEFINITION. Do yourself a favor and look up the definition of the word.

[rhorle]

You pay a Token = Get gold that would take other people hours/days/months to collect = Pay to Win
You pay a subscription = You get access to the server like everyone else = Service.

Gold gives you access to boosts just like everyone else. No gold is created so someone had to have already done the effort to collect it in order to purchase your token. Both subscription and tokens are services.

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No. I didn't.

Okay. I remember incorrectly. Thanks for clearing it up.

[iinverse]

You Pay Cash = Have an advantage in the game = Pay to Win

You think that this is advantage, but it is not.
Advantage is a buying one more lockout on progress race. I believe one guild tried to do that via transferring (for real money btw), but was banned by Blizzard.

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It's an advantage BY DEFINITION. Do yourself a favor and look up the definition of the word.

Convenience. Not advantage. It will not help you to be stronger, because everyone can reach lvl 50 fast and easily.

[TheRevenantHero]

You think that this is advantage, but it is not.
Advantage is a buying one more lockout on progress race. I believe one guild tried to do that via transferring (for real money btw), but was banned by Blizzard.

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Convenience. Not advantage. It will not help you to be stronger, because everyone can reach lvl 50 fast and easily.

So instead of actually looking at the definition of the word advantage, you'd rather continue to spout wrong information. Ok.

[rhorle]

Convenience. Not advantage. It will not help you to be stronger, because everyone can reach lvl 50 fast and easily.

Gaining levels helps you to be stronger. A level 1 is objectively weaker then a level 30. Just because you can reach level 50 easily or relatively quickly doesn't change that you are buying power (the advantage) directly from Blizzard for money. A level boost is objectively pay to win. The subjective part comes from people trying to rationalize it as acceptable when they are also against pay to win. So it is labeled as not buying power (when it does) just because the power/advantage is not that relevant to end-game power.

[delus]

There's a sliding scale of pay to win. Having tradable currency and items opens up pay to win at the ground floor. You buy currency or items in-game, you are paying to win and whether or not that is against TOS is irrelevant. Wow is still at the lower tiers of pay to win.

[iinverse]

The "but it is not...trust me dude" is not valid here. Find evidence that is not.

You Pay cash = You have an unfair advantage over others = Pay to Win.

So instead of actually looking at the definition of the word advantage, you'd rather continue to spout wrong information. Ok.

Its because you overestimate.
In boosting to 50 lvl example: all players, both f2p and payed for 50 lvl boost will be lvl 60 in a first week. Nobody wins here, everyone equals. And race still isnt even started.

[rhorle]

Boost are paid with Real money = You get advantage in the game = Pay to Win

Raid carries for real money are against the terms of service. Which is why those boosts are paid for with gold. You defeating your own claim. Tokens and Subscriptions are services. They give you access to X. A token gives you access to what wealth provides. A subscription gives you access to the game. What you do with that access is up to the you. Both can be used to win, both can be used for cosmetics. Both can be used to just sit around chatting in-game.

[iinverse]

Time used to level up is irrelevant. You Pay Cash to take advantage and be max level instantly = Pay to Win

Blizz do not sell boosts to max level.

[iinverse]

Level 50 is the max level of the base game (BFA). And you save tons of time leveling. You take advantage with cash = You Win = Pay to Win

A I said, everyone actually played was 60 at the first week, regardless of paying. No win here.