"Pay to win"

[schwank05]

I only wish I could Buy more than 1 boost, I think that part is dumb. And if anything a boosted character if your like me and that is your only or only high level character you'll actually be at a huge disadvantage as you have no gold and no prof skill you end up having to crawl around with your level 60 mount until you can generate enough gold to buy your mount and then you have to go back to vanilla and level your professions. But I will still gladly pay $50-60 to skip the shittyness that is leveling even if it is a bit faster.

[Lyrel8490]

If you can spend real money to gain power for your character, it's p2w. And just because YOU think it's easy or not an advantage doesn't mean it's not one. Some people don't have that kind of time. Some people are lazy. Regardless, a boost is purchasing character power which is a prime example of p2w.

I would agree if it was the same for classic era servers. But it's not. so to me it's not p2w. and to me just because you guys say it is doesn't mean it's true.

So we just won't agree on that.

[TheRevenantHero]

I would agree if it was the same for classic era servers. But it's not. so to me it's not p2w. and to me just because you guys say it is doesn't mean it's true.

So we just won't agree on that.

Except it is lol. Leveling is way slower in Classic and TBC so the level boost is even MORE of a p2w element. Because you are paying money to skip DAYS of level grinding. So you can disagree all you want but you'd still be wrong.

[tehdef]

You’re absolutely clueless. YES dude ANY micro transactions are bad. How far you have fallen to defend this shit. ITS BLATANT CAPITALIST GREED JESUS CHRIST WHY DO U DEFEND THE NORMALIZATION OF THIS SHIT?

Well considering that you're paying for free advancement... If you attacked the price, I might be more in line. But you pay $15 a month, or did, or whatever your situation is (I really hope you aren't just here pissing and moaning for the funsies) for an old AF game that released in 2004.

$15 x 17 years vs..... A single boost to 58.

Cry me a river, bro. Oh wait, you did. It's so salty though.

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Except it is lol. Leveling is way slower in Classic and TBC so the level boost is even MORE of a p2w element. Because you are paying money to skip DAYS of level grinding. So you can disagree all you want but you'd still be wrong.

Hitting level 58 is not winning. Nice try passing off your shitty opinion as fact though, lmao.

[Vash The Stampede]

OT:
WoW was never meant to be p2w, but the community made it p2w.

The whales made it p2w but that's why the community left. This is why people seek classic because retail WoW has too much whaling. Like most mobile games, retail WoW will be just whale vs whale.

I only wish I could Buy more than 1 boost, I think that part is dumb. And if anything a boosted character if your like me and that is your only or only high level character you'll actually be at a huge disadvantage as you have no gold and no prof skill you end up having to crawl around with your level 60 mount until you can generate enough gold to buy your mount and then you have to go back to vanilla and level your professions. But I will still gladly pay $50-60 to skip the shittyness that is leveling even if it is a bit faster.

Once you do ouland quests then you get enough gold to buy an epic flying mount. You just gotta do it.

[TheRevenantHero]

Well considering that you're paying for free advancement... If you attacked the price, I might be more in line. But you pay $15 a month, or did, or whatever your situation is (I really hope you aren't just here pissing and moaning for the funsies) for an old AF game that released in 2004.

$15 x 17 years vs..... A single boost to 58.

Cry me a river, bro. Oh wait, you did. It's so salty though.

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Hitting level 58 is not winning. Nice try passing off your shitty opinion as fact though, lmao.

Look up the word advantage and don't get hung up on the "win" word. Because if you base it off the literal word win then p2w games don't exist. But in reality, p2w means you can spend real money to gain an advantage in a game over other players through character power. Since you are able to spend money to skip 58 levels of content, you are directly purchasing character power and have an advantage over players not buying the boost.

[SinR]

Player Power comes in two forms: Levels and Gear.

I can see where allowing people to, ONE TIME, be able to skip 1-58 can be viewed as paying money to win. However, given that the boosts give you 25g, about level 40ish gear, 60% Riding only, and no professions, its easily argued that a player that went 1-58 will be LEAGUES ahead of the boost in terms of Power. Not only will they have far superior gear, but they should have close to max professions, enough money to buy 100% riding at 60, and be more than prepared to move onto Outland. Boosts have it really hard for the first level or so going into Hellfire due to being slower at nearly everything.

And then there's the whole "the game isnt based around 1-69" but then there's the "But ITS THE JoUrNeY!!!!!!" people. Shit the boost doesn't even HELP with the 58-69 "Journey"

[schwank05]

The whales made it p2w but that's why the community left. This is why people seek classic because retail WoW has too much whaling. Like most mobile games, retail WoW will be just whale vs whale.


Once you do ouland quests then you get enough gold to buy an epic flying mount. You just gotta do it.

Yeah, that is the problem I have never since starting to play in 2005 done a regular quest after being max level. I despise leveling and have no interest in quests I just want to do dungeons and Raids.

[WowIsDead64]

They are content to me ... after 6 years when I can solo them lol

Don't you understand my sarcasm or do we need to launch next round of it? Yeah, and leveling is content for me. So what?

[Drusin]

Don't you understand my sarcasm or do we need to launch next round of it? Yeah, and leveling is content for me. So what?

I wasn't disagreeing but ok

[arkanon]

I can do those too, but it's unreasonably more difficult because of boosts. Activation is wasting my time by making it easier for those who pay.
.

You keep saying this, but havnt been able to respond to the question of "HOW" they are making it any harder for you at all. Why do you keep avoiding this question?

[Prag]

Once you do ouland quests then you get enough gold to buy an epic flying mount. You just gotta do it.

Should caveat this with once you do *every Outland quest.

I recall the sum for all quests excluding dungeon quests being like 6400g. Most will hit 70 having earned between 1000g - 2000g depending on path/dungeons.

Edit: it is ~6,700g post-70. For those on Hunter Discord:

https://discord.com/channels/2532136...22073021038594

[Vash The Stampede]

Player Power comes in two forms: Levels and Gear.

HA! NO! WoW has many methods to gain power and those two are the most relevant. Factions which can get you gear, and pvp can reward you with gear. Spec and macros also play a huge role. As a Ret Paladin I plan to abuse Seal twisting and spec a certain way that no whale is going to know about. You won't function very well as a Paladin without same basic macros. This is not something you can do on Shadowlands since there's no spec and macros don't give you as much of an advantage as it did in TBC.

I can see where allowing people to, ONE TIME, be able to skip 1-58 can be viewed as paying money to win. However, given that the boosts give you 25g, about level 40ish gear, 60% Riding only, and no professions, its easily argued that a player that went 1-58 will be LEAGUES ahead of the boost in terms of Power. Not only will they have far superior gear, but they should have close to max professions, enough money to buy 100% riding at 60, and be more than prepared to move onto Outland. Boosts have it really hard for the first level or so going into Hellfire due to being slower at nearly everything.

As someone who's played on private servers I can tell you I know exactly how it feels to boost to 58 because private servers have done it. Though its a feature everyone got, and not those who payed money for it. Where you think Activision got the idea of giving alliance Paladins Seal of Blood and starting players off at level 58 from? It's a huge advantage that nobody would avoid abusing.

Yeah, that is the problem I have never since starting to play in 2005 done a regular quest after being max level. I despise leveling and have no interest in quests I just want to do dungeons and Raids.

I get it but you're not a special snow flake to get it because you decided to pull out moms credit card. You want to boost to 58 then let everyone do it for free. Even Steven.

You keep saying this, but havnt been able to respond to the question of "HOW" they are making it any harder for you at all. Why do you keep avoiding this question?

You're not listening to why it's making it harder.

1. Harder to group with players to do 1-60 dungeons.
2. People taking my ore because they're too high of a level for mobs to attack.
3. Huge PvP advantage against leveling players because 58 > 35.
4. By the time leveling players hit 70 the boosted guys won't do dungeons with them because they already ran them.
5. Encouraging more bots because those people don't pay $15 per month.
6. Ruining the economy because of said bots.

Should caveat this with once you do *every Outland quest.

I recall the sum for all quests excluding dungeon quests being like 6400g. Most will hit 70 having earned between 1000g - 2000g depending on path/dungeons.

Edit: it is ~6,700g post-70. For those on Hunter Discord:

https://discord.com/channels/2532136...22073021038594

Yep!

[arkanon]

You're not listening to why it's making it harder.

1. Harder to group with players to do 1-60 dungeons.
2. People taking my ore because they're too high of a level for mobs to attack.
3. Huge PvP advantage against leveling players because 58 > 35.
4. By the time leveling players hit 70 the boosted guys won't do dungeons with them because they already ran them.
5. Encouraging more bots because those people don't pay $15 per month.
6. Ruining the economy because of said bots.

1- Wrong - the players who used the boost would NOT be leveling from lvl 1 - they have no interest in that - thats why they used the boost.
2 - Its not "your" ore, and lvl 60s were doing this before the boost, nothing has changed.
3 - Completely false - where are these lvl 58 players that are spending their time in lvl 35 zones ganking lowbies? And why wouldnt a player who leveld do the same?\
4 - By the time leveling players hit level 70, ALL max level players, boosted or otherwise, wont do those dungeons - again, NOTHING to do with the boost.
5 - What?
6 - WHAT????

You are wrong on EVERY point - you have created an issue in your mind that genuinely does not exist. The people who paid for the boost did so because they had no intention of playing through Vanilla. Maybe they had a 60, but wanted to change class. Maybe they wanted an alt. Maybe they had no interest in Vanilla at all, but did have an interest in TBCC. But in absolutely no reality did their decision to boost a character hinder or impede your progress in any way. What your argument boils down to is this fantasy world were without the boost, everyone would have stayed out of TBC, and continued leveling alts and doing dungeons with you until you caught up. TBC is out - everyone has moved on - it has nothing to do with the boost.

[Millyraynge]

Boosts have good sides as well. I boosted an alt tank for my guild. I am leveling the tank on my own / with pugs. Therefore the server has one more tank in the pool, especially for those players which are not that fast. On one hand we have boosters with a lot of experience and the capability to play multiple classes on a advanced level. On the other hand offers the boost the opportunity for new, less experienced or casuals players to figure out new stuff or being able to play with there communities. These both groups represent the biggest part of narratives in this regard imo. The last one of a third is split between all the other mentalities.

A boosted character with its communism gear is weak as hell. No money, no professions, no nothing. This circumstance is not very newb or casual friendly. A part of this group wont make it to level cap.

[Askyl]

So, there are 2 sides here.

1 that wants wow to be P2W so they can cry about it.
1 that just Google, Read the definition of P2W and realize wow has none of it.

Pick your side.

[Vash The Stampede]

1- Wrong - the players who used the boost would NOT be leveling from lvl 1 - they have no interest in that - thats why they used the boost.
2 - Its not "your" ore, and lvl 60s were doing this before the boost, nothing has changed.
3 - Completely false - where are these lvl 58 players that are spending their time in lvl 35 zones ganking lowbies? And why wouldnt a player who leveld do the same?\
4 - By the time leveling players hit level 70, ALL max level players, boosted or otherwise, wont do those dungeons - again, NOTHING to do with the boost.
5 - What?
6 - WHAT????

1. If you're playing the game then you have to start from lvl 1. Then you have to do stockades, gnomer, and SM.
2. It's not lvl 60's but lvl 58's.
3. Completely true as that's something you could do. Trust me it happened.
4. It's a realistic problem.
5. What?
6. WHAT??

You are wrong on EVERY point - you have created an issue in your mind that genuinely does not exist.

Firstly, half of those I have dealt with personally like 1-60 dungeons, mining, and ganking. Doing dungeons at 70, botting, and ruining the economy are a theory that I'm sure is going to happen if it hasn't happened already.

The people who paid for the boost did so because they had no intention of playing through Vanilla. Maybe they had a 60, but wanted to change class. Maybe they wanted an alt. Maybe they had no interest in Vanilla at all, but did have an interest in TBCC. But in absolutely no reality did their decision to boost a character hinder or impede your progress in any way. What your argument boils down to is this fantasy world were without the boost, everyone would have stayed out of TBC, and continued leveling alts and doing dungeons with you until you caught up. TBC is out - everyone has moved on - it has nothing to do with the boost.

I understand but by no means should Activision be charging a fee to get a boost 58. Either everyone gets a boost or nobody gets a boost. You have to make things fair and personally I prefer not to have the boost since TBC wasn't designed to have it. Activision doesn't know how boosting could alter the games economy and leveling experience for players.

- - - Updated - - -

So, there are 2 sides here.

1 that wants wow to be P2W so they can cry about it.
1 that just Google, Read the definition of P2W and realize wow has none of it.

Pick your side.

One side claims there's no P2W and it's in our heads. The other side claims it's very much P2W. Yours is stupid.

[Prag]

Community: Doesn’t want p2w. Wants everyone to earn their way.

Also community: sells crafted epics and patterns for 10k+. (Yes, this will deflate some, but not much while T4 is current)

It doesn’t matter what Blizzard does because the community itself will always be it’s own worst enemy.

When they’re forced to release a WoW token because players literally can’t afford raid consumables and pre-bis gear, don’t blame Blizzard. Blame the community.

And spare me the “you don’t need this to raid.” The community also does a stand-up job of gating people from entry gear.

Is the community at fault for everything bad with the game? Hell no. Are they doing everything in their power to exacerbate it? Absolutely.

[chrisnumbers]

One side claims there's no P2W and it's in our heads. The other side claims it's very much P2W.

The side claiming that it's p2w has never been able to point out where the "win" is. Define win, and then point to where Blizzard is selling wins. I can tell you what winning isn't. Winning isn't ganking lowbies, it isn't mining your nodes, and it isn't merely being level 58.

[Askyl]

1. If you're playing the game then you have to start from lvl 1. Then you have to do stockades, gnomer, and SM.
2. It's not lvl 60's but lvl 58's.
3. Completely true as that's something you could do. Trust me it happened.
4. It's a realistic problem.
5. What?
6. WHAT??

Firstly, half of those I have dealt with personally like 1-60 dungeons, mining, and ganking. Doing dungeons at 70, botting, and ruining the economy are a theory that I'm sure is going to happen if it hasn't happened already.

I understand but by no means should Activision be charging a fee to get a boost 58. Either everyone gets a boost or nobody gets a boost. You have to make things fair and personally I prefer not to have the boost since TBC wasn't designed to have it. Activision doesn't know how boosting could alter the games economy and leveling experience for players.

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One side claims there's no P2W and it's in our heads. The other side claims it's very much P2W. Yours is stupid.

But it's not. It's really not. The only argument would be "WAAH WAH IF YOU BOOST YOU GET A HEAD START". But is it an advantage? Not really. Because the one who didnt boost might be both better and have more time on his hands, which means that the boost is simply just a boost. And they didn't clear Karazhan or even reach 70 faster.

Pay 2 Win is when you buy an obvious ADVANTAGE (not a boost) like special items, armor, skills that other players can't get unless they also buy them. It's NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND. It's actually quite saddening to see how so many people go out of their way to justify that Blizzard / WoW use P2W just to hate on it.

Then quit the damn game, because it's not P2W and you just hate the game.