[Speculation] Tinker Class for 10.0 Dragon Isles

[Fantazma]

I don’t see a scenario where Blizzard doesn’t announce a new class for 10.0. No new class in 8 years would be a disaster for them.

Yes. 8 years with no new class and to escape a "disaster" the class that Blizzard will announce will be something that only matches Gnomes and Goblins and will make us literally revive mechagon??
We don't need to work at Blizzard to know this isn't going to happen.

[Teriz]

Yes. 8 years with no new class and to escape a "disaster" the class that Blizzard will announce will be something that only matches Gnomes and Goblins and will make us literally revive mechagon??
We don't need to work at Blizzard to know this isn't going to happen.

It matches Draenei, the Nightborne, and Dwarves as well.

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you keep ignoring the rpg aspect im guessing because magic and tech are different even in WoW
you have an engineering profession but you dont have a frost mage profession

Which has nothing to do with your notion that Blizzard would create a permanent set of covenant “tech” abilities because of a bizarre fear towards creating a technology class.

[Revamp Man]

It matches Draenei, the Nightborne, and Dwarves as well.

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Which has nothing to do with your notion that Blizzard would create a permanent set of covenant “tech” abilities because of a bizarre fear towards creating a technology class.

i never said anything about a fear lol

again its just a tree with a few abilities
ya take that and make 4 trees
congrats you have a tree that can work for all classes

now as for it being easier than a class...its true dude
you dont have class auras
you dont have a spellbook full of abilities
you dont have to balance it against the other classes

it also fits if you do the whole "hey we use tech to advance our world and the heroes now know how to use it" and theres no reason for it to be removed
you keep saying it should be but the only comparisons you have are things that were reliant on something outside of the world itself
azerite gear empowered by the heart which we dont have storywise
artifact weapons got drained
covenants are in a different plane of existence
those arent comparable to magic which requires years of training
also the precedent of technology staying with the player is already in the game through engineering

[username993720]

To answer Teriz, what you posted might further hint at the Tinker becoming playable sometime in the future. It does not, however, link it to a Light expansion, just like Legion tech didn't link the Tinker to a Demon expansion nor did elves' tech link the Tinker to an Arcane expansion, neither did Kyrians' robots link the Tinker to a Death expansion. Stop forcing it.

Again, that in no way, shape or form proves a "necessity". All it does is showcase a perceived pattern that, once again, in no way shape or form "proves a necessity" for future classes.

in no way shape or form does it not make it so.

Okay, so how do YOU think wrathion will locate the dragon isles if you're convinced against the OP.


Lets take a step back from tinkers and ask, how will the dragon isles finally be discovered if the OP is soooo farfetched?

Like's that the heart of the OP, a method of finding the dragon isles. Perhaps MOTHER alone is enough and she doesnt need the best engineers on azeroth, perhaps she isn't. But how else can the isles be found besides those two scenarios or some lame unoriginal expedition via boats.

How was Pandaria found? by accident.

Exactly. Also heading straight to a light/void expansion right after SL is exhausting, we need a sorbet, like MoP after cata. Dragon Isles seems liek the perfect choice.

So class wise, the easy answer is dragonsworn for obvious reasons. But then one could assume that dragonsworns can just easily be the next covenants. Also tinkers have been in our face since vanilla, have been a unit in warcraft 3, has representation in HoTS, and island expeditions and should have higehr priority than dragonsworn.

Throw in the fact that the dragon isles have been hidden possibly like Uldum then you get why I thought up the OP. Also Undermine has been referenced so many times in wow and still not implemented.

Your logic is flawed.
I agree that we need a 'break' expansion.
I agree that it would, most probably, be the Dragon Isles.
I agree that a new class is sorely needed.
I agree that a non-Hero class like the Tinker fits a 'break' expansion. But so does a Blademaster, for example. Everything that is not dark and evil, basically.
But, all of that does not mean that your ridiculous theory will come to pass. Linking the Tinker to either the Dragon Isles or Light/Void expansion just because you want it doesn't serve as a convincing case.

you keep ignoring the rpg aspect im guessing because magic and tech are different even in WoW
you have an engineering profession but you dont have a frost mage profession

That would be enchanting and inscription.

Yes. 8 years with no new class and to escape a "disaster" the class that Blizzard will announce will be something that only matches Gnomes and Goblins and will make us literally revive mechagon??
We don't need to work at Blizzard to know this isn't going to happen.

I don't know man... Goblins vs Gnomes is a pretty recurring theme in Warcraft.

[Ielenia]

in no way shape or form does it not make it so.

What you're doing is akin to rolling a dice 3 times, each time it lands on an even number, and then you're concluding that the future rolls also have to land on an even number, "because it's a necessity".

Again, you asserting "there is a necessity" that classes match expansions because of the three previous class introductions we had is just plain wrong. What you have is a correlation that in no way, shape or form proves causation.

[jellmoo]

The way I see tinkers working is something like:
- Tank spec: like HotS D.Va, you are in a mech/armor with abilities to tank. If you die, instead of faceplanting, you get ejected. You have no armor, so you can't keep tanking, but you still can contribute with damage. You can "mount up" again after a CD completes (the CD is reduced out of combat and doing certain amount of damage while in combat)
- Healer spec: something like a mix of Mercy and Ana. You can damage enemies and heal allies with your abilities (a grenade that increases regeneration to allies and slows the enemies in the area, a shoot that heals allies and damages enemies in its path). You can also deploy support bots that help you heal or buff allies in some way (attack speed, increased damaged).
- Damage spec: like HotS Gazlowe but ranged. Deploy turrets and bot factories, plant mines

I mean, that would be the opposite of what I would personally find interesting. That is, or course, just me. I'm not particularly interested in having a mech be the centerpiece of a class in WoW. If it were up to me, the inclusion of a mech would be, at most, a cooldown useable in one, maybe two specs.

My vision for a Tinker class (and to be fair, the first thing that would change is the name, which, well, is very ugh) would be to have something that iis more like the swiss army knife of tech. If you play the Goblin intro zone, you get a variety of gizmos and gadgets to handle a huge variety of things. That, to me, is what would be fun, not emulating Robotech.

A melee DPS spec could have things like chainsaws, drills, short range explosions, giant claw attacks, flamethrowers, limited stealth, basically any combination of fin tech stuff that makes people bleed and burn.

A ranged DPS spec would have guns, guns and more guns. Machine guns? Sure? Lasers? Why not? Orbital bombardment? Yup. Mines? Yessir. Turrets? Oh yeah, turrets. All sorts of fun tools to make the enemy melt and be reduced to ash.

A tank spec could specialize in force shields, almost like a Disc Priest on steroids, but only for himself. If you absolutely need to have a mech, this is where I'd put it. Hell, toss in some robot buddies that help him tank and run interference. Make him a tank unlike other tanks.

A healing spec, for me, should be some combination of the Alchemy unit from WC3, and the concept of the Apothecary from the Forsaken. Using dark science with just a smidge of magic juice to heal allies, but also melt the shit out of enemies. Potions, concoctions, vile sprays and thrown powders, make the heal spec of the class actually be the more 'sinister' of the specs, which is a fun twist.

But, like everything, ask a dozen people what they'd like and you'll probably get a dozen different answers. This one is just mine.

[Revamp Man]

That would be enchanting and inscription.

so enchanting lets me summon a frost elemental and blink and summon frost comets
or is that inscription??

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What you're doing is akin to rolling a dice 3 times, each time it lands on an even number, and then you're concluding that the future rolls also have to land on an even number, "because it's a necessity".

Again, you asserting "there is a necessity" that classes match expansions because of the three previous class introductions we had is just plain wrong. What you have is a correlation that in no way, shape or form proves causation.

i mean blizz did say they only introduce classes during expansions where that class fits

i mean it would have to be a very specific theme for a class

[Teriz]

i never said anything about a fear lol

Fear would be the only explanation why they would do what you're describing and not create a technology-based class.

again its just a tree with a few abilities
ya take that and make 4 trees
congrats you have a tree that can work for all classes

That exists for absolutely no reason, and has no precedent in the history of WoW.

now as for it being easier than a class...its true dude
you dont have class auras
you dont have a spellbook full of abilities
you dont have to balance it against the other classes

No, you have over 50 abilities that can't be removed, has to be balanced with any evolving abilities and talents within the classes, and are thematically different than the classes they're supposed to be attached to. Again, there's a reason why Blizzard has created 3 new WoW classes but have never done what you're describing here.

it also fits if you do the whole "hey we use tech to advance our world and the heroes now know how to use it" and theres no reason for it to be removed
you keep saying it should be but the only comparisons you have are things that were reliant on something outside of the world itself
azerite gear empowered by the heart which we dont have storywise
artifact weapons got drained
covenants are in a different plane of existence
those arent comparable to magic which requires years of training
also the precedent of technology staying with the player is already in the game through engineering

But it doesn't make sense for any WoW class to use technology when the majority of them are magic-based and have nothing in common with a tech theme. Why would a Druid use technology when they could simply learn a new spell? Wouldn't a Warlock prefer a new shadow ability over the ability to pilot a mech? It simply doesn't make sense.

To answer Teriz, what you posted might further hint at the Tinker becoming playable sometime in the future. It does not, however, link it to a Light expansion, just like Legion tech didn't link the Tinker to a Demon expansion nor did elves' tech link the Tinker to an Arcane expansion, neither did Kyrians' robots link the Tinker to a Death expansion. Stop forcing it.

Uh, who's talking about a Light expansion? I'm talking about a Lightbound expansion where we're invaded by a technologically advanced army that utilizes technology powered by the Naaru who just happen to be holy light-based entities. The commanders in said army uses those mechs in battle. Those mechs just happen to also be used by LF Draenei and operate exactly like the mechs Goblins and Gnomes use. Further, the Tinker concept revolves around piloting a mech into combat. Not to mention technology vs technology only makes sense.

In short, the connection is rather obvious.

[Varx]

Mhmmmmm

[username993720]

Are you serious, Teriz? You just described a Light expansion.
Same can be said about Light. Using light to fight the Light. Why wasn't it fitting WoD, when we faced a tech-reliant army? or BfA, where War machines and weapons would be useful to counter each other's factions. The truth is, you can shoehorn the Tinker to whatever expansion features tech in it. It's, hardly, a convincing argument.

What you're doing is akin to rolling a dice 3 times, each time it lands on an even number, and then you're concluding that the future rolls also have to land on an even number, "because it's a necessity".

Again, you asserting "there is a necessity" that classes match expansions because of the three previous class introductions we had is just plain wrong. What you have is a correlation that in no way, shape or form proves causation.

So, you believe it was merely by chance?
Blizzard didn't orchestrate, plan and design it that way?
It just magically happened the last three times?
You're blind to reality and using this 'everything can happen' argument would lead us nowhere.

so enchanting lets me summon a frost elemental and blink and summon frost comets
or is that inscription??

I meant that those are magical professions.

Mhmmmmm

Mechanical Dragonlings have been with us since the game's inception.

[Crimson Spears]

Mhmmmmm

Its a cash shop pet to go with the cash shop mount

[Lochton]

I understand the confusion of people with this Class idea somehow must mean a profession idea, but you have in WoW, even NPC speech stating that a Tinker is more advanced than an Engineer. Most of the Tinkers in WoW have a connection to Engineering or Alchemy, they are the roots, while the Tinker as a Class, is the crown of the ever-growing development of some races.

(Due to Allied races, Alliance currently has more races connected to the theme of Tinker)
Gnome/Mechagnome
Dwarf/Dark Iron
Draenei/Lightforged
Human
Worgen

(Vulpera could be added once they are permitted to rebuild their society)
Goblin
Undead
Blood Elf
Orc
Nightborne

[Varx]

Mechanical Dragonlings have been with us since the game's inception.

Its a cash shop pet to go with the cash shop mount

Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, I'm not full of doo doo.

[Teriz]

Are you serious, Teriz? You just described a Light expansion.
Same can be said about Light. Using light to fight the Light. Why wasn't it fitting WoD, when we faced a tech-reliant army? or BfA, where War machines and weapons would be useful to counter each other's factions. The truth is, you can shoehorn the Tinker to whatever expansion features tech in it. It's, hardly, a convincing argument.

Because WoD took place right after MoP where Monks were introduced, and the majority of WoD took place on Draenor. Also the Iron Horde weren't as technologically advanced as the Lightbound are. Yrel invading Azeroth would mean that the entire expansion would take place on Azeroth proper. And like I said before, a Lightbound invasion has a chance to cause deep rifts within the Alliance.

BFA was about a faction war, not a technologically advanced army invading Azeroth. It also came right after Legion where Demon Hunters were introduced.

[username993720]

Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, I'm not full of doo doo.

This remains to be seen.

Because WoD took place right after MoP where Monks were introduced, and the majority of WoD took place on Draenor. Also the Iron Horde weren't as technologically advanced as the Lightbound are. Yrel invading Azeroth would mean that the entire expansion would take place on Azeroth proper. And like I said before, a Lightbound invasion has a chance to cause deep rifts within the Alliance.

BFA was about a faction war, not a technologically advanced army invading Azeroth. It also came right after Legion where Demon Hunters were introduced.

You do know Tinker technology doesn't have to be super advanced, right? Look at the Goblins, their creations are most often prone to fail and explode. That's what the Iron Horde was based around - Goblin tech. Are you suggesting Goblin tech is not part of the Tinker and that it is, all of the sudden, an alien light based tech class? because that's horseshit.

As for BfA, much of the War campaigns involved using tech and explosives to confront the other faction. Whether it is in the cinematic trailer or the attack on Tiragarde sound. That's the nature of war - it sometimes require tech.

Now pushing the Light theme and race into the Tinker, when it was always primarily about Gnomes and Goblins, and the fact that you were a staunch advocate against it yourself, is nothing but manipulation to fit your desires into current story.

[lazypeon100]

It matches Draenei, the Nightborne, and Dwarves as well.

Arguably, orcs could potentially fit as well. With the help of Goblins, they have repeatedly shown an attitude for making use of various tech. Rapid industrialization after the cataclysm, iron juggernaut in SoO, the Iron Horde in general, etc. There's also a few other examples like some of the Fel Orcs in The Blood Furnace using explosives and other fel infused tech to help create more fel orcs for instance.

They may not always be the smartest, but orcs seemingly have an amazing aptitude towards learning how to use new technology and I would imagine you could make a good case for the smartest among them being able to invent or create more themselves.

[Teriz]

You do know Tinker technology doesn't have to be super advanced, right? Look at the Goblins, their creations are most often prone to fail and explode. That's what the Iron Horde was based around - Goblin tech. Are you suggesting Goblin tech is not part of the Tinker and that it is, all of the sudden, an alien light based tech class? because that's horseshit.

No, I'm suggesting that in the face of what is essentially an alien invasion, the races of Azeroth would combine their technology. In terns of gameplay and development, this makes sense, because you definitely have to incorporate Draenei (and possibly Nightborne) technology into a technology-based class. Essentially it would be an "all hands on deck" situation.

Interestingly, we're kind of primed for such a situation since we have the Gnomes unified with Mechagnomes and Mechagon, we have LF Draenei and their naaru technology, we have a unified Dwarven contingent, we have access to Titan information via MOTHER, we have Titan blood as a potential fuel source (Azerite), and we have Nightborne and their magic-based technology. Finally, we have Goblins with a more stable faction leader (Gazlowe) who has a direct connection to Undermine, and is willing to work with Gnomes.

Further, the point of WoD was not to have an army invade Azeroth and the various races dealing with an invading force disrupting the existing factions. The POINT of WoD was for us to explore an alternate Draenor and for us to meet the old leaders of the Orcs. The invasion was only an excuse for us to venture into AU Draenor.

This is a different case altogether, because there's no reason for us to explore AU Draenor anymore, so the POINT of a Lightbound expansion is in fact the invasion of Azeroth itself.

As for BfA, much of the War campaigns involved using tech and explosives to confront the other faction. Whether it is in the cinematic trailer or the attack on Tiragarde sound. That's the nature of war - it sometimes require tech.

Now pushing the Light theme and race into the Tinker, when it was always primarily about Gnomes and Goblins, and the fact that you were a staunch advocate against it yourself, is nothing but manipulation to fit your desires into current story.

Again, I didn't expand this concept, Blizzard did. As many on this lovely forum liked to remind me, we have multiple races who can not only pilot mechs, but build them as well. Since the general point of the Tinker concept is piloting a mech, and we have multiple races who have the ability to build and pilot mechs, it wouldn't make sense to release a Goblin/Gnome centric Tinker class. It makes far more sense to release a technology class that incorporates multiple facets of Azerothian technology. Additionally, it makes quite a bit of sense to reveal this class when we're dealing with a high technological threat.

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Arguably, orcs could potentially fit as well. With the help of Goblins, they have repeatedly shown an attitude for making use of various tech. Rapid industrialization after the cataclysm, iron juggernaut in SoO, the Iron Horde in general, etc. There's also a few other examples like some of the Fel Orcs in The Blood Furnace using explosives and other fel infused tech to help create more fel orcs for instance.

They may not always be the smartest, but orcs seemingly have an amazing aptitude towards learning how to use new technology and I would imagine you could make a good case for the smartest among them being able to invent or create more themselves.

Agreed. Additionally the Iron Reaver was piloted by an Orc.

[Revamp Man]

Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, I'm not full of doo doo.

I mean store mounts in the past have pointed towards the next expansion

Sylverian dreamer is in ardenweald
Fey dragon was WoD
The inscription tiger was suramar

The only thing is there’s usually a gap
For example the dread wake is technically true to BfA and you could argue the steam scale was as well

I can’t remember if the gap is 1 or 2 mounts

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Fear would be the only explanation why they would do what you're describing and not create a technology-based class.




That exists for absolutely no reason, and has no precedent in the history of WoW.



No, you have over 50 abilities that can't be removed, has to be balanced with any evolving abilities and talents within the classes, and are thematically different than the classes they're supposed to be attached to. Again, there's a reason why Blizzard has created 3 new WoW classes but have never done what you're describing here.



But it doesn't make sense for any WoW class to use technology when the majority of them are magic-based and have nothing in common with a tech theme. Why would a Druid use technology when they could simply learn a new spell? Wouldn't a Warlock prefer a new shadow ability over the ability to pilot a mech? It simply doesn't make sense.



Uh, who's talking about a Light expansion? I'm talking about a Lightbound expansion where we're invaded by a technologically advanced army that utilizes technology powered by the Naaru who just happen to be holy light-based entities. The commanders in said army uses those mechs in battle. Those mechs just happen to also be used by LF Draenei and operate exactly like the mechs Goblins and Gnomes use. Further, the Tinker concept revolves around piloting a mech into combat. Not to mention technology vs technology only makes sense.

In short, the connection is rather obvious.

If it’s so difficult why are we seeing constant tuning passes for classes and not for soulbinds

Another reason to do this system instead of a class is giving everyone the first permanent upgrade for the last decade and make it fit what would be the technological evolution of the world

Yeah a mage might want a better spell but unlike tech you can’t just make a new giant spell out of nowhere

You can however make a big bomb and teleport it to your enemy

Oh the classes are evolving and need so much tuning and adding a simple ability of “launch a rocket at your target” is super complicated to balance over a new class with multiple specs

“Summon a robot that heals injured targets” is so tough to balance between specs and classes I mean it’s not like we see something that is exactly the same every time


Listen dude I get that you don’t want to see tinker as anything besides a class and that is fine that is your preference. What isn’t fine is you sperging claiming it won’t happen in any way outside of a class to the point your only argument is that you think it wouldn’t work and anyone who disagrees is wrong and blizzard is just afraid of making it a class if they did it similar to soulbinds.

[Ielenia]

So, you believe it was merely by chance?
Blizzard didn't orchestrate, plan and design it that way?
It just magically happened the last three times?
You're blind to reality and using this 'everything can happen' argument would lead us nowhere.

I never said "I believe it was all by chance". I simply said we do not know, so asserting either way as fact is wrong. For all we know? The actual reason those classes were picked over all the others may have nothing to do with the expansion theme. Or maybe they did. The point is, like I said: we do not know.

[username993720]

No, I'm suggesting that in the face of what is essentially an alien invasion, the races of Azeroth would combine their technology. In terns of gameplay and development, this makes sense, because you definitely have to incorporate Draenei (and possibly Nightborne) technology into a technology-based class. Essentially it would be an "all hands on deck" situation.

Interestingly, we're kind of primed for such a situation since we have the Gnomes unified with Mechagnomes and Mechagon, we have LF Draenei and their naaru technology, we have a unified Dwarven contingent, we have access to Titan information via MOTHER, we have Titan blood as a potential fuel source (Azerite), and we have Nightborne and their magic-based technology. Finally, we have Goblins with a more stable faction leader (Gazlowe) who has a direct connection to Undermine, and is willing to work with Gnomes.

Further, the point of WoD was not to have an army invade Azeroth and the various races dealing with an invading force disrupting the existing factions. The POINT of WoD was for us to explore an alternate Draenor and for us to meet the old leaders of the Orcs. The invasion was only an excuse for us to venture into AU Draenor.

This is a different case altogether, because there's no reason for us to explore AU Draenor anymore, so the POINT of a Lightbound expansion is in fact the invasion of Azeroth itself.



Again, I didn't expand this concept, Blizzard did. As many on this lovely forum liked to remind me, we have multiple races who can not only pilot mechs, but build them as well. Since the general point of the Tinker concept is piloting a mech, and we have multiple races who have the ability to build and pilot mechs, it wouldn't make sense to release a Goblin/Gnome centric Tinker class. It makes far more sense to release a technology class that incorporates multiple facets of Azerothian technology. Additionally, it makes quite a bit of sense to reveal this class when we're dealing with a high technological threat.

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Agreed. Additionally the Iron Reaver was piloted by an Orc.

Now i know you're full of crap.
What made you change your mind all of the sudden? was it the realization that it can serve your argument for playable Tinkers? because its certainly not your love for these races.

Plus, don't you see how you combine different aspects that have nothing to do with each other to make a case for playable Tinkers? You're just scraping off whatever is around to build a case for yourself. Light? ✓ Titan?✓ Goblins and Gnomes? ✓ conclusion? Tinker. That's just bad math.

Also, Lightbound army does not necessarily mean Tinker. That's just your own twisted idea. Basically, when one think of countering the Light it's either by the Light itself or an opposing force - the Void. No one ever thinks of technology, no matter how much it is part of their ranks. So was the Legion's army and the Iron Horde army. It did not make a convincing case for Tinkers, because we're dealing with themes. And, for the Tinker to fit, one would expect a Goblin and Gnome themed expansion with a mechanical threat like the one shown in Chromie's vision of Mechagon.

What's this bullcrap about WoD not being about the Iron Horde but about Draenor? It's almost always the reason to visit a place. a demonic invasion? go visit Outland/Broken Isles/Argus. An undead invasion? go to Northrend/Shadowlands.
What if we are to visit one of the Light encased (crystallized) worlds mentioned in the Audio Drama of Legion (starring Alleria and Turalyon). What would you have to say then? Who guarantees it will take place on Azeroth? and who guarantees it won't introduce a new landmass?

I never said "I believe it was all by chance". I simply said we do not know, so asserting either way as fact is wrong. For all we know? The actual reason those classes were picked over all the others may have nothing to do with the expansion theme. Or maybe they did. The point is, like I said: we do not know.

Once again, it would lead us nowhere. I could end this entire discussion with the claim that we basically don't know anything and Blizzard can do whatever they like. End of discussion. See how that's a shitty argument?