Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[arkanon]

Thats not the same logic. Like, come on.

And yes, its not pay 2 win because if you buy the token, its not straight forward that you use it to win anything. If you buy the ticket in the cinema to watch Avengers: Paid Ultron to Win, the ticket is for that movie. You bought it to watch that spesific thing.

So your analogy is horrible.

So just to be very clear, you honestly believe that adding an extra step between the credit card and the gold somehow fundamentally changes the transaction? Even when that system is full automated, including price?

Because yes, you bought the ticket to watch Avengers, and that is fixed..................just like you paid for the token to obtain gold...............Are you suggesting that some people exchange their money for gold with no intention of spending any of that gold? Just to........spend money?

[Captain Proton]

So just to be very clear, you honestly believe that adding an extra step between the credit card and the gold somehow fundamentally changes the transaction? Even when that system is full automated, including price?

Because yes, you bought the ticket to watch Avengers, and that is fixed..................just like you paid for the token to obtain gold...............Are you suggesting that some people exchange their money for gold with no intention of spending any of that gold? Just to........spend money?

I mean, it does. You can buy carries in game with gold without ever paying money. Carries aren't exclusive to token buyers.

[Cuppy]

I'll wait for an apology.

Sorry mate

[arkanon]

I mean, it does. You can buy carries in game with gold without ever paying money. Carries aren't exclusive to token buyers.

I never once said they were - this is called a strawman argument - attacking an argument not being made by the other person.

[Cuppy]

I mean, it does. You can buy carries in game with gold without ever paying money. Carries aren't exclusive to token buyers.

Don't bother dude. Once these guys realize they can sell their anus for a boost in CN, game becomes "sell your anus to win". Just don't bother.

[Vampyrr]

I bought gold with cash. Now I can use this gold to buy carries. Looks like I won

You paid other players for carries and can get gold any number of ways. Not pay2win because you arent buying an instaclear directly from Blizzard.

[Captain Proton]

I never once said they were - this is called a strawman argument - attacking an argument not being made by the other person.

Where did I say that you said that? I didn't. This is called a strawman argument - attacking an argument not being made by the other person.

[arkanon]

Where did I say that you said that? I didn't. This is called a strawman argument - attacking an argument not being made by the other person.

So your reply to me was........not directed at me in any way, and the point you raised was not actually legitimate, and you were simply throwing out random thoughts to random people, not relevant at all to the current discussion?

[Vampyrr]

You buy gold that would take months to farm for any other player. You get an unfair advantage = Pay to Win

You pay cash in order to skip 50 levels while other players who doesnt pay for it would take them days = Pay to Win

Neither of those are pay2win. They do not give you buffs or equipment that is otherwise impossible to obtain. Pay2Win is very specific in its meaning it is the direct purchase of power by gear or buffs from the developer of the game which is not something that is currently possible to do. WoW is not and so far has never been pay2win anything. Buying currency alone is not enough for it to be pay2win.

[arkanon]

Neither of those are pay2win. They do not give you buffs or equipment that is otherwise impossible to obtain. Pay2Win is very specific in its meaning it is the direct purchase of power by gear or buffs from the developer of the game which is not something that is currently possible to do. WoW is not and so far has never been pay2win anything. Buying currency alone is not enough for it to be pay2win.

Please provide a link to this "very specific" definition of P2W - I believe it will finally end the conversation everyone is having, as you said it is VERY specific. I am confident you have read ONE definition of the term, no doubt on a website where anyone can literally create their own definitions, but I doubt there is one universal definition.

[Captain Proton]

So your reply to me was........not directed at me in any way, and the point you raised was not actually legitimate, and you were simply throwing out random thoughts to random people, not relevant at all to the current discussion?

*shrug* Not my fault if you can't follow.

So if I bought one token of gold 2 years ago, but used 250k of the gold I farmed myself to buy a boost now, thats pay 2 win by some peoples definition. Thats the fucked up logic people are using.

Which is wrong, because WoW do not use a direct transaction for power, so by definition, its not pay 2 win.

It is as easy as that. No amount of mental gymnastics can change that.

So you believe that by adding a second step into the transaction it stops being P2W?

So by that logic, you dont pay to watch a movie in the theatre, but rather you pay for a ticket, and the ticket grants you access to the movie so movies are free?

and then some idiotic movie analogy

So just to be very clear, you honestly believe that adding an extra step between the credit card and the gold somehow fundamentally changes the transaction? Even when that system is full automated, including price?

Because yes, you bought the ticket to watch Avengers, and that is fixed..................just like you paid for the token to obtain gold...............Are you suggesting that some people exchange their money for gold with no intention of spending any of that gold? Just to........spend money?

I was supporting the person you were arguing against. You know, his point of you can buy anything that people purchase with money by using gold you earn.

[kaminaris]

Low blows are not legal in boxing, but some people still do it - and are punished for doing it - that doesn't mean low blows are a legitimate part of boxing.

Hiring someone to play on your account is not illegal, neither is buying gold from 3rd party. TOS is not the law. Just "opinion" of developers.

[Captain Proton]

Please provide a link to this "very specific" definition of P2W - I believe it will finally end the conversation everyone is having, as you said it is VERY specific. I am confident you have read ONE definition of the term, no doubt on a website where anyone can literally create their own definitions, but I doubt there is one universal definition.

Please provide me a link on how one wins World of Warcraft.

[arkanon]

Hiring someone to play on your account is not illegal, neither is buying gold from 3rd party. TOS is not the law. Just "opinion" of developers.

I never said ANYTHING about it being "illegal", and it is NOT an "opinion" - you have agreed to it, and it is a legally binding document that you digitally sign by agreeing to the TOS. For a little additional guidance, the term illegal does not expressly mean criminal law, and even Webster include an additional component to their definition, which basically says "also : not sanctioned by official rules (as of a game)". This relates perfectly to my boxing analogy where a low blow is considered an "illegal blow" or "illegal strike".

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Please provide me a link on how one wins World of Warcraft.

Advantage - gaining an ADVANTAGE - the colloquial term used in this context is Pay to Win, P2W, or Pay2Win - that does not mean it has to be "winning", just like when someone is "driving me up the wall" there is no car involved, and often no wall. This is an EXTREMELY simple concept.

[Captain Proton]

I never said ANYTHING about it being "illegal", and it is NOT an "opinion" - you have agreed to it, and it is a legally binding document that you digitally sign by agreeing to the TOS. For a little additional guidance, the term illegal does not expressly mean criminal law, and even Webster include an additional component to their definition, which basically says "also : not sanctioned by official rules (as of a game)

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Advantage - gaining an ADVANTAGE - the colloquial term used in this context is Pay to Win, P2W, or Pay2Win - that does not mean it has to be "winning", just like when someone is "driving me up the wall" there is no car involved, and often no wall. This is an EXTREMELY simple concept.

But I'm in full mythic gear, what advantage did he get over me? Getting carried doesn't give him more chances for gear nor does he get gear I can't get, he's doing the same shit as me every week but uses money for carries. I use my guild.

[arkanon]

But I'm in full mythic gear, what advantage did he get over me? Getting carried doesn't give him more chances for gear, he's doing the same shit as me every week but uses money for carries. I use my guild.

Nothing about the term, under any of the definitions I have seen, says it grants an advantage over every single player in the game in every possible scenario - what made you think it does?

[Captain Proton]

Nothing about the term, under any of the definitions I have seen, says it grants an advantage over every single player in the game in every possible scenario - what made you think it does?

I'm just going under the definitions I've seen. Never said every single player. It's about those who don't pay. Everyone has the same opportunities, if they pay with gold or not.

[arkanon]

I'm just going under the definitions I've seen. Never said every single player. It's about those who don't pay. Everyone has the same opportunities, if they pay with gold or not.

So you agree that the fact a person may still have an advantage over someone else is NOT a factor when determining if a game has P2W elements or not. Strange that you would bring it up then, dont you think?

[Captain Proton]

So you agree that the fact a person may still have an advantage over someone else is NOT a factor when determining if a game has P2W elements or not. Strange that you would bring it up then, dont you think?

They don't have an advantage, because they aren't getting anything you can't by playing. I didn't agree they were getting advantage.

[arkanon]

They don't have an advantage, because they aren't getting anything you can't by playing.

So a game that offers you a full set of BiS gear, all max level mounts unlocked, and gold cap, all with a credit card, is not P2W by your definition, even if unlocking those things in game would take, say, 2 years of 40hour per week gameplay?