1. #1501
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    What are you talking about? You did not provide evidence that you don't have a Bezos picture on your ceiling over your bed. Until you prove you don't, no one believes you don't.

    Sure does seem to show you aren't really arguing with what people actually post and instead just make shit up. @Slant is right, you don't pay attention at all.
    It's your claim.

    You ever find evidence that Bezos took stocks as part of his salary?

    It's adorable that you are relegated to the most mediocre attempt at shitposting, because you are finally aware that you are completely outclassed when discussing the actual issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Nope. They are not lying or misrepresenting. Nor are they misunderstanding basic economics. Here, I'm going to help you... an analogy, it's really giving you the answer, but I'll put it in a somewhat puzzle-ish manner:

    Bob and Tom are discussing if a wall should be painted blue or green.

    Clare comes along and says "How about we knock the wall down and make it a bigger room?"

    Now, you tell me, what represents basic economics in this?
    It would seem you also don't understand the definitions of words. Sadly, they were provided for you.

  2. #1502
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It's your claim.

    You ever find evidence that Bezos took stocks as part of his salary?

    It's adorable that you are relegated to the most mediocre attempt at shitposting, because you are finally aware that you are completely outclassed when discussing the actual issue.
    Its your claim you don't. Prove it.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  3. #1503
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Its your claim you don't. Prove it.
    There you go.

    https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/...urden-of-Proof

  4. #1504
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It would seem you also don't understand the definitions of words. Sadly, they were provided for you.
    No buddy, it doesn't work like that. See, this right here? This is you not understanding what I'm trying to tell you, giving up on understanding it and then lashing out at me because somehow I make you feel stupid for not getting the analogy. I said it's a puzzle.

    Here's the clue: The wall is basic economcis. Now, apply that key to the discussion. We're clare, and you're whoever the fuck you want to be, Bob or Tom. Tell me, what is it that everyone here is trying to tell you?
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  5. #1505
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    No buddy, it doesn't work like that. See, this right here? This is you not understanding what I'm trying to tell you, giving up on understanding it and then lashing out at me because somehow I make you feel stupid for not getting the analogy. I said it's a puzzle.

    Here's the clue: The wall is basic economcis. Now, apply that key to the discussion. We're clare, and you're whoever the fuck you want to be, Bob or Tom. Tell me, what is it that everyone here is trying to tell you?
    I provided the definitions of the word, I can do no more for you.

    The analogy:

    Them: We need to paint this door green!!!

    Me: Umm, that's not a door, it's a couch. See, I'm sitting on it, and I can show you pictures on the internet showing that it is a couch. That's also not green paint, it's purple.

    You: Just let them paint the fucking door green!!!

  6. #1506
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I provided the definitions of the word, I can do no more for you.

    The analogy:

    Them: We need to paint this door green!!!

    Me: Umm, that's not a door, it's a couch. See, I'm sitting on it, and I can show you pictures on the internet showing that it is a couch. That's also not green paint, it's purple.

    You: Just let them paint the fucking door green!!!
    I mean, I just told you... it's not up for debate, the analogy I built is exactly what I told you. And since it's my analogy, you don't get to redefine it into whatever bullshit crazy madhouse you have going on in your head. If you can't even understand and repeat a simple concept like I just illustrated to you, how are you thinking you're able to have an adult conversation?
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  7. #1507
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I mean, I just told you... it's not up for debate, the analogy I built is exactly what I told you. And since it's my analogy, you don't get to redefine it into whatever bullshit crazy madhouse you have going on in your head. If you can't even understand and repeat a simple concept like I just illustrated to you, how are you thinking you're able to have an adult conversation?
    Now your word is above reproach? Nah, fuck that.

    I can simply say you're wrong, and misrepresenting what was said.

    I'm still trying to get people to understand simple concepts, and you said that's irrelevant.

  8. #1508
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Now your word is above reproach? Nah, fuck that.

    I can simply say you're wrong, and misrepresenting what was said.

    I'm still trying to get people to understand simple concepts, and you said that's irrelevant.
    I'm wrong... I made up the analogy to describe a concept I want you to understand. And somehow, I'm wrong. About the analogy I made up. Like, somehow I manage to make up the analogy in my brain and then instantly am wrong about what I have just made up.

    That's not how an adult conversation works buddy. We have listened to your madhouse bullshit for 70 pages. It's your turn to fucking repeat what I just told you. I don't even care if you agree or not, I don't even care if you copy & paste it. I just want to see you physically be able to just repeat the letters that I typed, 1:1.

    Go ahead, do it. I have met elementary school kids that can do it, so surely a big boy like you should be able to just REPEAT something.
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  9. #1509
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I'm wrong... I made up the analogy to describe a concept I want you to understand. And somehow, I'm wrong. About the analogy I made up. Like, somehow I manage to make up the analogy in my brain and then instantly am wrong about what I have just made up.

    That's not how an adult conversation works buddy. We have listened to your madhouse bullshit for 70 pages. It's your turn to fucking repeat what I just told you. I don't even care if you agree or not, I don't even care if you copy & paste it. I just want to see you physically be able to just repeat the letters that I typed, 1:1.

    Go ahead, do it. I have met elementary school kids that can do it, so surely a big boy like you should be able to just REPEAT something.
    I simply offered you a better, more-accurate analogy.

    I have copy/pasted the shit that people have said numerous times. You got mad at that, because I was pointing out they were objectively incorrect.

  10. #1510
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Yeah, supporting liberty is terrible...

    Meanwhile, you've supported abuses by police officers more times than I can count.

    So, being insulted by fascists doesn't really hurt my feelers.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Well, your argument is based on other libertarians saying it... and he said it. So, unless he's a libertarian, then that's not a good argument.
    You clearly do not know the definition of fascism and not being able to count to 10 or so is not surprising.

    And you are defending a system that allows rich people to be more rich (and most of the time without doing anything) and poor people to be more poor than ever, so I do not think I have any kind of lessons to receive from you

  11. #1511
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I simply offered you a better, more-accurate analogy.

    I have copy/pasted the shit that people have said numerous times. You got mad at that, because I was pointing out they were objectively incorrect.
    I am not mad. I'm just bemused at your attitude. You really don't get it. It just doesn't compute in your head. I'm sorry, I give up. I can't help you. You are incapable of forming actual, coherent, simple thoughts in your head. Or something in your head is wired wrong or something. It is not possible to explain this to you without automatically getting an infraction for trolling.

    Yes, I'd have to dumb it down that much. Holy shit. I often think people are being purposefully obtuse. But with you, I think this is an actual thought pattern problem. You need to step back and look at how you talk to people here. Not even the slightest attempt at understanding anything, you're the forum equivalent of a dude sticking fingers in his ears going "LALALALA"
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  12. #1512
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    You clearly do not know the definition of fascism and not being able to count to 10 or so is not surprising.

    And you are defending a system that allows rich people to be more rich (and most of the time without doing anything) and poor people to be more poor than ever, so I do not think I have any kind of lessons to receive from you
    I'm the one providing the definitions, so I hope you enjoy them all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I am not mad. I'm just bemused at your attitude. You really don't get it. It just doesn't compute in your head. I'm sorry, I give up. I can't help you. You are incapable of forming actual, coherent, simple thoughts in your head. Or something in your head is wired wrong or something. It is not possible to explain this to you without automatically getting an infraction for trolling.

    Yes, I'd have to dumb it down that much. Holy shit. I often think people are being purposefully obtuse. But with you, I think this is an actual thought pattern problem. You need to step back and look at how you talk to people here. Not even the slightest attempt at understanding anything, you're the forum equivalent of a dude sticking fingers in his ears going "LALALALA"
    Once again, you're blaming me, because I'm taking them at their word, then blaming me, because I'm not using the words in the way they want to pretend they mean, instead of their actual meaning.

    This is you demanding I cater to their willful ignorance, and pretend that words mean different things, because they cannot be bothered to learn definitions.

  13. #1513
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post

    great, then have your city or county tax stocks, see how the wealthy respond.
    Again, 1 more time. Stocks shouldn't be taxed locally. They need to be taxed federally. Nobody here has said that. You built that strawman to attack it.

    The federal government can levy taxes, but they don't on those assets.
    Yes. And what everyone is saying is that it should.

    So, get your local representatives to put it on the county ballot. I look forward to seeing the shit storm that ensues.
    Again. This is not something that should be handled locally. This is a federal issue. Nobody is asking for a local tax on stocks.

    The federal government won't do it, because luckily... people who understand economics would never let it happen.
    This has fuck all to do with good economics. On the contrary. This is bad economics. And we ended up here because of crony capitalism. It's to a large extent what has driven us to the current dysfunctional state of capitalism and trickle down voodoo economics. Not taxing stocks has lead to our current predicament. Taxing stocks would create the revenue needed for fixing the state of affairs.

    Now you guys are the ones wanting double standards and preferential treatment. The irony is unceasing.
    The only double standard that exists is the fact that stocks are not taxed like other things. Which in combination with low interest rates has lead to our current state of affairs where simply holding millions and billions in stocks has become a defacto tax dodge.

  14. #1514
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Again, 1 more time. Stocks shouldn't be taxed locally. They need to be taxed federally.



    Yes. And what everyone is saying is that it should.



    Again. This is not something should be handled locally. This is a federal issue. Nobody is asking for a local tax on stocks.



    This has fuck all to do with good economics. On the contrary. This is bad economics. It's to a large extent what has driven us to the current dysfunctional state of capitalism and trickle down voodoo economics. Not taxing stocks has lead to our current predicament. Taxing stocks would create the revenue needed for fixing the state of affairs.



    The only double standard that exists is the fact that stocks are not taxed like other things. Which in combination with low interest rates has lead to our current state of affairs where simply holding millions and billions in stocks has become a defacto tax dodge.
    And I have shown numerous times exactly why they shouldn't levy such a tax.

    Forcing people to sell the companies they fucking built, is bad economics.

    Warren's plan calls for a 6% tax, on people who have less than 6% liquidity.

    How do they pay for that tax, year over year? There's only one option... sell their companies, piece by piece.

    So, you want the feds to tax houses, all loans, and your car? Or, do you want a double standard? And for the record, the federal government does tax stocks, when they are sold. Are we keeping that tax, as well?
    Last edited by Machismo; 2021-06-11 at 05:42 PM.

  15. #1515
    hey machismo have you got over 50 million quid?

  16. #1516
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    How do they pay for that tax, year over year? There's only one option... sell their companies, piece by piece.
    If we're talking about Bezos for example, he only owns 11% of Amazon so he doesn't actually "own" the company, he has a minority stake in it. He's not selling "his" (it's not his anymore, it's a publicly traded company with a board of directors that he will be joining once his voluntary resignation as CEO comes through in July) company, he'd simply have to sell some of his minority stake in the company.

    And you complain about others making bad/inaccurate arguments.

  17. #1517
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    If we're talking about Bezos for example, he only owns 11% of Amazon so he doesn't actually "own" the company, he has a minority stake in it. He's not selling "his" (it's not his anymore, it's a publicly traded company with a board of directors that he will be joining once his voluntary resignation as CEO comes through in July) company, he'd simply have to sell some of his minority stake in the company.

    And you complain about others making bad/inaccurate arguments.
    great, let's talk about Cuban, a guy who said he's not very liguid.

    Yes, it's quite literally forcing them to sell the companies they own.

    He'd have to keep selling it, year after year. I get that you don't give a shit, because that's exactly what you want. But, they give a shit, and so do I.

    Thank God, this will never happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    hey machismo have you got over 50 million quid?
    Nope, does that mean I shouldn't give a shit about the people who do?

    That's like saying a straight person shouldn't care about gay rights.

  18. #1518
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    great, let's talk about Cuban, a guy who said he's not very liguid.
    What does that have to do with my pointing out that, for example Bezos who is frequently talked about, doesn't meet the fictional situation you created?

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Yes, it's quite literally forcing them to sell the companies they own.
    Like what? I mean, the guy has $1B in Amazon stock he can draw from without touching anything he owns/is a majority investor in (which I'm not even sure what the full list is).

    Please show how it would "quite literally" force him to sell his companies, because spending 30 seconds looking him up on Google sure indicates that it is not the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I get that you don't give a shit
    Aren't you the one spending dozens of pages complaining about others misrepresenting your arguments and positions? You'd think you wouldn't do the same for others, but here we are.

  19. #1519
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I am not mad. I'm just bemused at your attitude. You really don't get it. It just doesn't compute in your head. I'm sorry, I give up. I can't help you. You are incapable of forming actual, coherent, simple thoughts in your head. Or something in your head is wired wrong or something. It is not possible to explain this to you without automatically getting an infraction for trolling.

    Yes, I'd have to dumb it down that much. Holy shit. I often think people are being purposefully obtuse. But with you, I think this is an actual thought pattern problem. You need to step back and look at how you talk to people here. Not even the slightest attempt at understanding anything, you're the forum equivalent of a dude sticking fingers in his ears going "LALALALA"
    No, he's being very deliberate. We can speculate the "why" but he already knows he's alone in his sad beliefs, so the "why" would play into his ego as to his trolling. He has no proof, no evidence...nothing. That's why he demands it from others so he can trash their evidence, their proof. And when called on it, he'll try to be funny with sarcasm instead of providing anything to back up his wild claims.

  20. #1520
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    And I have shown numerous times exactly why they shouldn't levy such a tax.
    No, I'm sorry you didn't. The same people who argue that taxing stocks somehow would collapse the economy are the people who argue in favor of the total fucking failure that trickle down economics has been.

    Forcing people to sell the companies they fucking built, is bad economics.
    First of all. The tax doesn't actually force you to sell anything necessarily. It does incentivize increasing your personal income, that income can easily come from dividends or earnings. Furthermore even if you are forced to sell some of your stake to pay your taxes that doesn't in effect do anything negative to a company. Let's say Amazon, Amazon's success has fuck all to do with whether Jeff Bezos holds 200b in stocks or 189b in stocks. That 11b didn't vanish from the market capitalization of the company. It just went on the market. Hell, Bezos might even effectively offset that if the dividends and earnings from his stocks were higher than whatever he had to pay in taxes.

    Having a higher tax on stocks would actually incentivize higher earnings on stocks. Because currently it's more preferable to have low earnings and high stock value.

    Warren's plan calls for a 6% tax, on people who have less than 6% liquidity.
    We can have a conversation about whether 6% is too high or too low, but we first need to agree that there needs to be a tax on wealth held in stocks. There's no point in discussing percentages until we actually agree on taxing stocks.

    How do they pay for that tax, year over year? There's only one option... sell their companies, piece by piece.
    EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNNINNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSS.

    Earnings.

    Earnings.

    So, you want the feds to tax house, all loans, and your car? Or, do you want a double standard?
    Actually....I think that's a pretty decent idea. Local taxes should probably be limited to way fewer things, like....a sales tax or things like a sugar tax and such. Or eliminated altogether. Like, the simple fact that school districts are funded locally has contributed massively to our dysfunctional public education system. Instead taxes should be collected federally and then redistributed using a system where part of the redistribution is allocated based on need. This would allow us to for example FIX OUR FUCKING INFRASTRUCTURE and to FIX SHITTY SCHOOL DISTRICTS and do other things like DEAL WITH FUCKING HOMELESSNESS.

    Just because we are doing something one way right now, it doesn't mean we are doing it right.

    And for the record, the federal government does tax stocks, when they are sold.
    One more mother fucking time. The fundamental problem is that an economic infrastructure was created where stocks are never sold, because once you are above wealth threshold you no longer neeeeeeeeeeeeed to sell anything to access effectively infinite tax free liquidity. That's the problem we are trying to address.

    Are we keeping that tax, as well?
    Yes. We should. Just as we do, with other things........LIKE REAL ESTATE.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2021-06-11 at 06:09 PM.

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