[Speculation] Tinker Class for 10.0 Dragon Isles

[Varx]

So why not Tinkers in Shadowlands?

I mean, the class was totally in the cards to follow up after BFA. We had Mother, we had Mechagon and Mechagnomes, we had Gazlowe even present at Icecrown.

All they had to do was write in Bolvar lacking power to open the portal to Shadowlands, and shoehorning Tinkers in to fill that gap. God knows Teriz has been making the argument that Tinkers fit any expansion for ages, so if we're talking about shoehorning then is there any reason Blizzard couldn't have done it?

And their answer to us was that they implied that they want a new class to fit an expansion's setting and story as well as Demon Hunters did for Legion. And I think Tinkers don't fit either Shadowlands or Dragon Isles when we consider what the root setting and story of these locations would actually be about.

Of course I'm not discounting the possibility of Blizzard actually doing it, I'm just making a point that so far this suggestion doesn't convince me as someone who wants to play as Tinker that I'd have much worth or purpose in a place called the Dragon Isles.

I'd much rather have Tinkers be introduced in a setting that makes sense for them. I'd much rather have Dragon Isles simply focus on the much-needed Dragon Lore that's been missing since Cataclysm. While I don't think either are mutually exclusive, I don't consider Tinkers to be very beneficial in Dragon Isles any more than they would be beneficial for Shadowlands.

Yeah you're 100% right, but can you imagine introducing tinkers in SL over necros or DR's. Would have been hjisterical.

Now for dragon isles i'd expect dragonsworn. But I just have a sneaky suspicion that they will be the next cov's. So that just leaves Tinker as the only possible option from requested classes.

Ultimately, only blizzard can say for sure. I'm just speculating of what could happen.

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Imagine a xpac where I'll have to listen to the voice of the M.O.T.H.E.R. the same amount of times I had to listen to Bwonsamdi on BFA.
God, save me from this.
If the next xpac is anything remotely linked to mechagon, gnonos, goblins, ... (and possibly with xmogs full of lamps and screws) it will be the first time in 15 years that I've unsub.

What if it's the best the game has ever been system, balance, and content wise.

[Triceron]

Yeah you're 100% right, but can you imagine introducing tinkers in SL over necros or DR's. Would have been hjisterical.

That's about the same as how I feel about a Tinker class over a Dragon-based class in Dragon Isles. It'd be hysterical, for all the wrong reasons.

The idea of giving us a Tinker and saying 'Oh you didn't need a Dragon-based class because we have Dragonsworn Covenants' would be as bad as saying 'Oh you didn't need Dark Ranger/Necromancer class because you have Covenants'.

[jellmoo]

It's still a convoluted package altogether.

Tinkers don't really have any roots to Dragon Isles, even in the OP's proposed way. It's as loose a connection as having all the world's Tinkers use their technology to solve the problems of _any_ expansion. And if that were true, we could have had playable Tinkers in Shadowlands for the same reasons - and we clearly don't.

I'm of the mindset that we should have got a class this expansion, not skipped in favour of Covenants. And if such a proposal for Tinkers would fly for Dragon Isles, I see no reason why it'd be skipped for Shadowlands when it's just as applicable.

So I conclude that the issue itself would come from lacking any substantial connection between a Tinker and the Expansion setting. Just throwing Undermine in there as a neutral hub isn't really enough IMO.

Just to play devil's advocate, why not completely separate the class from the theme of the expansion?

I mean, in the case of the two hero classes, we got something super specific. Either undead heroes brought back at a fixed point in time, betrayed at a fixed point in time, and then swearing vengeance against their betrayer. Or followers of Illidan infused with demonic energy, attacking a Legion world at a fixed pint in time, being captured at a fixed point of time, and being unthawed at a fixed point in time with the return of the Demons. Both are super specific experiences that tie into the narrative of the story they debut in.

But for a more generic base class meant to cover broader archetypes, is that really needed? A Tinker (dear gods hopefully with a better name) class would be more akin to a Warrior or a Mage. A much more general class that handles a broad theme. This is a dude that uses tech to fight enemies. That's it. No super specific backstory, no fixed point in time.

What if Blizzard separated the class from the expansion? Make it an addition to the game, but not so much an addition to the expansion. It's a feature, absolutely, but not necessarily a narrative driven one. We know that Tinkers (ugh) exist. They simply haven't been playable. This would just make them a player option. Add them in the Dragon Isles, the Murloc Isles, the Basic Campfire Isles, whatever expansion you want. They need not be a central plot point. They just need to be a playable option.

[Fantazma]

What if it's the best the game has ever been system, balance, and content wise.

1- The system will be the same! A lot of farm, a lot of grind, a lot of "borrowed powers" that you'll have to sacrifice half your life time to conquer.
2 - Balance? Since when do we have a balance in this game? I don't believe we will ever have this.
3 - How an expansion that will make you feel like everything has turned into a gigantic Mechagon... would it be remotely "content wise"? If you are a Demon Hunter you would spend 2 years seeing lamps and screws on your Warglaives. Yes, Blizzard would just make "xmog themed". I Predict the Rogues Daggers being replaced with a screwdriver. A nightmare for 95% of class-fantasy players.

Plz, Try understand me: "Tinkers" would be a class that necessarily brings with it a stean-punk theme that appeals to very few players.
Look at the number of people who play with gnomes and goblins and maybe these are the only players who would possibly be happy with this theme.

[Triceron]

Just to play devil's advocate, why not completely separate the class from the theme of the expansion?
---
What if Blizzard separated the class from the expansion? Make it an addition to the game, but not so much an addition to the expansion. It's a feature, absolutely, but not necessarily a narrative driven one. We know that Tinkers (ugh) exist. They simply haven't been playable. This would just make them a player option. Add them in the Dragon Isles, the Murloc Isles, the Basic Campfire Isles, whatever expansion you want. They need not be a central plot point. They just need to be a playable option.

Which is what I did, play devil's advocate above and applied it to Shadowlands.

We run into the same reason why we don't have playable Tinkers today. The reasons we got were that they didn't find a class that fit an expansion the way Demon Hunters fit Legion. If that is not a concern for Tinkers as a class, then I see no reason why Blizzard would apply that as their reason to omit a class in Shadowlands.

Tinkers didn't have to be central to the plot of Shadowlands either, they could just be there for the sake of being there. But we know that Blizzard has chosen not to go that route and explained a specific reason not to, which is why I'm applying that same logic here. Otherwise I see no reason why Tinkers couldn't also be added to Shadowlands.

[Varx]

Which is what I did, play devil's advocate above and applied it to Shadowlands.

We run into the same reason why we don't have playable Tinkers today. The reasons we got were that they didn't find a class that fit an expansion the way Demon Hunters fit Legion. If that is not a concern for Tinkers as a class, then I see no reason why Blizzard would apply that as their reason to omit a class in Shadowlands.

Tinkers didn't have to be central to the plot of Shadowlands either, they could just be there for the sake of being there. But we know that Blizzard has chosen not to go that route and explained a specific reason not to, which is why I'm applying that same logic here. Otherwise I see no reason why Tinkers couldn't also be added to Shadowlands.

Also, for me its a matter of probability.

After DH's in Legion, DR's, Nercos, Tinker, Dragonsworn, and Bard are the most requested classes.

Not being included in SL prtty much shot down the chance for both dr and necro becoming a class, at least anytime soon. Bard, There just isn't enough bard lore in warcraft to justify them as a class, at least not before the others mentioned, imo at least.

So that just leaves those 2 left. Dragonsworn and the 5 flights have covenants 2.0 written all over them. So by process of elimination that just leaves us with Tinker unless Blizzard completely abandons the covenant style system.

So with that being said, that leaves us with some tinker shoehorned lore to justify them in w/e 10.0 will be. Since Wrathion is looking for the isles and 9.2 will probably have heavy dragon shenanigans.... there you go.


Also, with that steam dragon mount, wouldn't be the first time, nor second, where blizz introduced a store mount that matches the theme of an upcoming exp.

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Holy crap quick update

So yesterday I posted this



And people disregarded this as a store pet to match the store mount. Look what I just found...

https://ptr.wowhead.com/npc=179125/t...ng#summoned-by

That thing is sold by a wow anniversary vendor and was added in the 9.1 PTR.

WoW's anniversary event is in NoV, which means 10.0 would most likely have been announced by then!

Look at it's abilities too. Shit would give fire to my 10.0 - 11.0 light/void expansion theory too.

OMG I'm hitting pyromancer levels that shouldn't be possible here.

[Triceron]

Also, for me its a matter of probability.

After DH's in Legion, DR's, Nercos, Tinker, Dragonsworn, and Bard are the most requested classes.

Not being included in SL prtty much shot down the chance for both dr and necro becoming a class, at least anytime soon. Bard, There just isn't enough bard lore in warcraft to justify them as a class, at least not before the others mentioned, imo at least.

So that just leaves those 2 left. Dragonsworn and the 5 flights have covenants 2.0 written all over them. So by process of elimination that just leaves us with Tinker unless Blizzard completely abandons the covenant style system.

I agree with everything said here. Dragonsworn and Tinker are the two that I conclude as the most probable as well, if we consider Dark Ranger and Necro counted out after Shadowlands.

I also agree that Dragonsworn Covenants would make the most sense, if they're considering continuing with Borrowed Power. In my own opinion, I think they should not, since borrowed power mechanics are proving to be highly unpopular. I hope they turn course and re-evaluate mechanics going forward.

So with that being said, that leaves us with some tinker shoehorned lore to justify them in w/e 10.0 will be. Since Wrathion is looking for the isles and 9.2 will probably have heavy dragon shenanigans.... there you go.

Why couldn't Dragonsworn be its own class while we consider TInker saved for its own expansion? Or perhaps an Undermine/South Seas focused expansion before Dragon Isles appears? There's plenty of options that don't involve shoe-horning every concept into one expansion. I mean, it's not like they have to do it now or never.

Also, with that steam dragon mount, wouldn't be the first time, nor second, where blizz introduced a store mount that matches the theme of an upcoming exp.

That mount came out before Shadowlands was even out, and was promoted with Mechagon and Gnomes.

And the connection doesn't even make sense considering you've been suggesting Tinkers are here because of Titan Tech that Wrathion needs, not because Dragon Isles is full of Steam Dragons.

I mean as much as I think it'd be interesting to have some nuance and flair to the Dragon Isles, I imagine it to be a mystical and ancient place that does have a Titan connection to it. The last thing I imagine is a steam-punk Island inhabited by Steam Dragons, whether they are related to Titans or not.

[Varx]

Did you see my update?

Also, the feather dragon thingy had no mention whatsoever about the shadowlands and yet they exist in ardenweald.

The description for the steam dragon mount is that some gnome had a dream about it and then created it. Hmmmmm, maybe a vision??????????

[Triceron]

Did you see my update?

Also, the feather dragon thingy had no mention whatsoever about the shadowlands and yet they exist in ardenweald.

Just read the update.

Hmm, that does seem very interesting. I do think you have a much stronger basis now. Usually I don't put much faith in those kind of hints, but it's been a fairly solid how Blizzard has used mounts and pets to hint at future expansions and their themes; or at least they would design ways to fit those mount themes into the next expansion.

I won't say I'm entirely on board, but I'll definitely give this one some credit towards a possible connection between tech and Dragon Isles.

[Varx]

Just read the update.

Hmm, that does seem very interesting. I do think you have a much stronger basis now. Usually I don't put much faith in those kind of hints, but it's been a fairly solid how Blizzard has used mounts and pets to hint at future expansions and their themes; or at least they would design ways to fit those mount themes into the next expansion.

I won't say I'm entirely on board, but I'll definitely give this one some credit towards a possible connection between tech and Dragon Isles.

IKR, look ill admit that my theory could easily be a load of caca, But this anni vendor mech dragon pet with time abilities made me double take super hard. i hope I dont get kidnapped tonight.

[Fantazma]

Quick question:
In a Tinkers themed expansion... Would the engineering profession have privileges or would it be totally useless?

[Varx]

Quick question:
In a Tinkers themed expansion... Would the engineering profession have privileges or would it be totally useless?

I dont see why it wouldn't. Engineer is a merely crafting profession. Tinkers are combat specialists.

[hipolnalrt]

Varx - I think you're on the right trail, just off a little. I think its going to be a 'tinker' based expansion with the Infinite dragonflight as the main antagonist. We'll need to use tinker tech to reach them, blah blah. The dragons will get involved and we'll have the isles as some sort of content.

[Triceron]

IKR, look ill admit that my theory could easily be a load of caca, But this anni vendor mech dragon pet with time abilities made me double take super hard. i hope I dont get kidnapped tonight.

I'm trying to analyze the significance of this and the possibilities it may mean.

What I do see is a connection between Tech and the next expansion. This does not have to be a significant connection to Dragon Isles specifically though, since practically most of the new Store mounts were either beasts or dragons of some type. Sylverian Dreamers were Dragons that had nothing directly associated with Shadowlands, the Fae Dragon were 'Dragons' that had nothing specific to do with AU Draenor, and these were still present in the respective expansions with little explanation why they would even be there. Dragons are just a common theme for store mounts on the basis of being cool, so even if we had a pure Tech-based expansion, I can see this Steam Dragon mount being an obvious tie in just on the basis of Dragon mounts being popular.

My first impression is that it might be a connection to the Tinker or a Tech-themed expansion, or at least an expansion with Tech themes present. My second impression would be something Infinite Dragonflight related, since it talks about time and Infinite Dragonflight. Are we looking at another AU situation? Are we looking at return of the Infinite Dragonflight? Maybe it's a lead in to Dragon Isles after all? Too hard to tell right now just based on this alone.

[Varx]

Varx - I think you're on the right trail, just off a little. I think its going to be a 'tinker' based expansion with the Infinite dragonflight as the main antagonist. We'll need to use tinker tech to reach them, blah blah. The dragons will get involved and we'll have the isles as some sort of content.

Yeah perhaps, though the way I saw it is that Sinestra and the twilight's hammer will be the antagonists at the start, cause nozdormu to go crazy and then the infinites will finish off the expansion and lead in to Yrel being summoned for 11.0 in K'aresh.

[hipolnalrt]

I agree. The quote attached to the pet seems interesting. "Dragons come in all types of temporal classification -- timeless, time-lost, and even infinite." The special emphasis on "infinite" when the pet isn't named "infinite" has to have special meaning. See my comment above. I think the Infinites will be the main antagonist with the help of tinker technology to fight. Bonus content will be other dragon stuff.

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Calling it now - World of Warcraft: Infinite.

[Varx]

I agree. The quote attached to the pet seems interesting. "Dragons come in all types of temporal classification -- timeless, time-lost, and even infinite." The special emphasis on "infinite" when the pet isn't named "infinite" has to have special meaning. See my comment above. I think the Infinites will be the main antagonist with the help of tinker technology to fight. Bonus content will be other dragon stuff.

Hang on, didn't mechagon show us that time travel is possible via technology? What if, the dragon isles are lost to time similar to Pandaria's timeless Isle? And that's why we cant find them.

HOLY SHIT

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

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Nvm that was chromie as a visitor....

[Revamp Man]

Hang on, didn't mechagon show us that time travel is possible via technology? What if, the dragon isles are lost to time similar to Pandaria's timeless Isle? And that's why we cant find them.

HOLY SHIT

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

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Nvm that was chromie as a visitor....

DRAGONSSSSSS
dragons take flight through the ice and snow

High in the sky where the cold wind blows

[jellmoo]

Which is what I did, play devil's advocate above and applied it to Shadowlands.

We run into the same reason why we don't have playable Tinkers today. The reasons we got were that they didn't find a class that fit an expansion the way Demon Hunters fit Legion. If that is not a concern for Tinkers as a class, then I see no reason why Blizzard would apply that as their reason to omit a class in Shadowlands.

Tinkers didn't have to be central to the plot of Shadowlands either, they could just be there for the sake of being there. But we know that Blizzard has chosen not to go that route and explained a specific reason not to, which is why I'm applying that same logic here. Otherwise I see no reason why Tinkers couldn't also be added to Shadowlands.

The thing is that we don’t really know what we don’t have playable Tinkers today. Or Necromancers, or Dark Rangers, or Bards, or what have you. We have random quotes from Blizzard here and there, but the reality is that we don’t really have anywhere near the full picture.

It’s entirely possible that we just never were going to get a new class in HShadowlands. Like, regardless of theme or story. It’s also possible that they had thought about adding half a dozen different classes and couldn’t decide on one. Or they simply decided to shift resources.

i think that ultimately there is an innate danger I taking small snippets of what a Blizzard dev says and then holding is an absolute. Because ultimately we have people making rather absolutist statements based on very flimsy evidence and a lot of conjecture, and I find it a ver slippery slope when it comes to these discussions.

[Triceron]

The thing is that we don’t really know what we don’t have playable Tinkers today. Or Necromancers, or Dark Rangers, or Bards, or what have you. We have random quotes from Blizzard here and there, but the reality is that we don’t really have anywhere near the full picture.

It’s entirely possible that we just never were going to get a new class in HShadowlands. Like, regardless of theme or story. It’s also possible that they had thought about adding half a dozen different classes and couldn’t decide on one. Or they simply decided to shift resources.

Except the quote is not random?

It's directed at why no class was chosen for Shadowlands. They could have simply not answered at all, exactly as TBC never had a new class with zero explanation. They could have simply said they wanted to devote resources to building the world of Shadowlands, and cut out the part about choosing a class that fit the story and setting as well as Demon Hunters did for Legion.

This would be one of the few times they publicly stated any reasoning they had for not choosing a class in any expansion. And considering how transparent they were about Character Customization in the same article and what they chose to focus on in Shadowlands, I don't see them trying to hide some other ulterior motives. Even if it were a lack of resources or being unable to pick the right class out of a half-dozen options, it still remains true that the Tinker (and other classes) was not picked for Shadowlands for the very reason of not fitting as well as Demon Hunters did as in Legion.

So would Tinker theoretically be worthy of a unanimous decision in moving into Dragon Isles? Is that what we're considering here? If so then it's really up to the devs to decide that. I personally \think their message implies they would prefer to decide on a Tinker class introduced in a Tech-themed expansion more than they would want to introduce in a Dragon-themed one. And the store mounts/pets that Varx has mentioned seem to point in that direction. The only thing I'm left to guess at is why they've decided to connect Mech Dragons to Timeless/Infinite Dragons for this particular pet.