I don't think its them not caring I think its just ignorance in thinking 'durr well there's no fantasy by people in minority groups so we gotta change the most popular fantasy not by them" despite the fact that fantasy by minority groups are on the rise (which is good) but p[opular Hollywood producer attending PR meetings thinks otherwise.
Yes and no. It's ~18 years between that moment and the first chapter of EOTW, Tam would age a fair bit in that time, or maybe his face wouldn't even have to be shown in the opening scene, just him kneeling in front of a woman, their faces hidden from view. You can create intrigue without actually giving away who characters are.
- - - Updated - - -
A lot of the most popular fantasy series still are those rooted in Christian and Catholic religious and social narratives. WoT is, despite having a power structure where women are the ruling class in a lot of instances, so is literally everything in LotR, and even Brandon Sanderson's Cosmere is entirely rooted in it. And those are the 3 I've read the most, no doubt there are more. But you can have great worlds using a variety of influences, they don't have to be religiously driven either, or they can use other faiths to draw from as well since other cultures do have different types of power structures and different norms.
Robert Jordan did a good job of creating his own unique thing and making a variety of unique cultures, while still having class structures and different power dynamics between different nations. It's on the writers to create great stories, and I hope that we start seeing them come from other people in larger quantities than we are because there is an untapped market for diverse writing in that sense, but there is zero reason to change an already established IP to suit a narrative that has no relevance in existing lore. It'll just confuse people who go and read the books as well, which I'm sure a lot of people will.
I tend to separate racist from general ignorance due to lack of proper research..
Ohh 100% correct, I think in popular culture which is generally white fantasy set in a medieval fantasy setting is still top popular fantasy, which is why I think its important that fantasy written by minority groups should be highlighted that way we can get less of Hollywood thinking that it doesn't exist to begin with...
As someone who is generally nose down in books there enough fantasy out there for everyone.
Last edited by Orby; 2021-06-12 at 07:08 PM.
As a fan, my overarching concern is that they remain respectful of the source material and don't start rewriting things unnecessarily. I don't mind if all the Aes Sedai get rolled into a handful of characters or if half the nobles squabbling over the sun throne get cut. I'd be disappointed if they start changing the main characters for the sake of it.
I also don't want to see a bunch of sex scenes just to draw people in. The very few that are in the book are meaningful to the story, I don't want to see GoT style sexposition.
Well nothing indicates that they are doing it^^
Will you get a bit of fanservice? For male or female! I am conviced that will happen. You will see rand probably shirtless at least once every episode. Because they know you can catch a good amount of people with it and it does not make much difference. On the other hand i cannot imgaine you will see much nudity form the women as they got depicted quite... prudish in the books tbh. Robert Jordan was on the rather conservative/coverup side in that regard.
But persoan-cult drives tv-shows. Be it because someone is very hot (mila jovovich in all her terrible movies, or that hemsworth guy) or really good written and bit comic relief (Tyrion in GoT). These depictions keep people glued to the screen.
So if we get one or the other but in turn the tv show will be on air longer i am fine with it.
Because lets face it. This show will NEVER be able to make all the books. For one because each season probably takes about 2 years to make so some of the main actors will be in their early 60 when you get to the last books (rosamunde Pike) or late 40s (Joshua Stadowski) when the books just are around 3 years i think.
Some of the women are depicted as prudish, although there is a LOT of nudity in the Aes Sedai rituals. The Aiel by contrast seem quite happy sitting around in their sweat tents starkers. Then there are the Shienaren baths, the Sea folk women were all topless as soon as they were out of sight of the shore. In the books at least it gave a sense of contrast between the different cultures, I have no problems with nudity in that context. Hopefully it won't be long before we're proved right or wrong.
Wanna bet they'd completely ignore this and force nude/sex scenes within the main characters like everywhere and in every thing.
Can you imagine spending the millions in a tv show to get showrunners that don't care a toss about the original content, but just in making catchy attention seeking flashy scenes for clout.. and wonder why the fans totally stink up a storm.
But I guess if you don't like it, you'd be called a white supremacist, rasisist, instaphobe or homophobe - even if you are non-white, gay and check more diversity boxes than most of them.
- - - Updated - - -
I hope they don't, but we shouldn't jump the gun and they this would be the case.. do we have genuine cause for concern yet? Or are we just going on what they've done for SW, ST, She-ra, He-man etc (or at least by reports)
I know a couple people that hate, loathe, no despise the Lord of the Rings movies because they aren't 1:1 adaptations; haha. I won't be surprised if the WoT show sends some fans into a blind frenzy.
- - - Updated - - -
The best part here, is that old fans will legitimately be able to say "I don't like it because it's not diversive enough!" Then launch into an explanation of all the culture that got taken out. Stops the "you must be____" arguments.
My concern comes from an interview with Brandon Sanderson where he says that they have made one change he thinks will upset some fans. There is some speculation based on this and the casting that the series starts with Perrin married to a woman named Layla, which changes the premise somewhat from Eye of the World having 3 'boys' all of whom could be the Dragon Reborn
Well, there is also an issue that costs and expectations have been blown WAY out of proportion over the past couple decades. It's not just relegated to fantasy stuff, but everything from LOTR to GOT have set a really high bar in terms of production value (costumes, props, sets, CGI, etc). If you don't have the brand recognition or a big name already willing to join the project, then it's nearly impossible to secure the money for what people now expect of these types of movies/shows. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there wanting to adapt lesser known properties, including fantasy works by people of color, but they also need to find someone willing to risk $50+ million on it or just accept that they probably won't make much/any money off of it.
Not necessarily. If you're going to invest millions of dollars into something, you would probably want to maximize your chances of seeing a return on that investment. Like I said above, I'm sure there are plenty of people who'd love to adapt lesser known IP's, but if you want your fantasy movie/show to reach a wide audience (like getting picked up by a big streaming service) then you need a pretty hefty chunk of money. Even with established IPs it's still a risk, but having name recognition goes a long way.
On the other hand, saying minorities should just "write new IP's" and implying that integrating them into more popular IP's makes for "an inferior product" is indeed pretty racist. Essentially telling minorities that they haven't earned this sort of popularity yet and that the "racial purity" of your more popular, established works needs to be maintained just reeks of it.
Now, I'm very much in favor of good adaptations that are true to the source material in terms of tone and story. However, I think race/gender swapping is almost never an issue, ESPECIALLY when adapting fantasy stories that don't even take place in our world. I also think it's a bit silly to suggest that projects like this that do make an effort for more diversity are sacrificing writing/directing quality by simply changing the casting call requirements. If the writing and/or directing is off, it will fail regardless of how "true to the book" the casting was.
My penultimate scene I want to see... Perrin crafting Mah'alleinir...
but I agree with the running sentiment. History is full of bad adaptations and a couple of good. For every Harry Potter and LotR adaptation... there is an Enders Game and Dune adaptation that loses the heart of the story. I think a TV series has a better chance... but the odds of seeing the end of it in a world where popular things like Altered Carbon get canceled? Even if they nail WoT? We'll get 2 of the 20 seasons it'll take to do it justice.
[color=blue]This thread has lived beyond its life expectancy. ... It's also met the forum quota for posters insulting the intelligence of their peers to grasp the age-old upper hand in argumentation, I believe officially coined by Plato: "Ur, like, dumb and that's why I'm right." Zarhym
The problem with books ~7 through ~11 is that a lot of the stories could be moved as prologue/postlogue blurbs. Queen Morgase could be a footnote as could a large chunk of other "secondary" characters that end up taking large chunks of chapters. Jordan had a flair for words... but he got bogged down in the details in the middle. The simple fact that it took half of a whole book to catch up to the previous was a symptom of an overly complex and buried in details story lines.
[color=blue]This thread has lived beyond its life expectancy. ... It's also met the forum quota for posters insulting the intelligence of their peers to grasp the age-old upper hand in argumentation, I believe officially coined by Plato: "Ur, like, dumb and that's why I'm right." Zarhym
but...Perrin being married, even if the wife dies early, upends an utterly massive part of his character story and growth arc. I means, does Faile just get cut entirely? If not, do they now have to fundamentally change the nature of their relationship dynamic? Perrin's innocence and inexperience were important in setting that up.
*insert Jackie Chan confused meme*