[Speculation] Tinker Class for 10.0 Dragon Isles

[Wangming]

We're talking about playing a certain fantasy archetype when we talk about any given class. Blizzard always puts their own spin on any given concept. The key thing is whether people like the idea of playing a Tinker that uses mech suits or a Dragon Knight that uses Aspect magic. Any concept beyond that is pure speculation anyways.

For me Dragon Knight or Dragon sworn of what have you, is killed by the meta. It isn't allowed to be stronger than a rogue so it just looks silly that all the empowerment of the dragons aspects lets you be just as strong as a random dude with two butter knives. As for riding a mech, unless they provide something cool gameplay wise, the novelty will wear off quickly. Cool anime shit is cool, but what will the mech even be? Just something visual? Extra armor? Extra damage? What will happen if the mech will get destroyed? Will it occupy a gear slot and have tons of variatons, or will it be like druid forms? If the latter, people won't like it. It seems a hard sell for anyone who doesn't want to just ride mechs. Question is, are there enough people like that in the fandom?

DK, Monk and DH had it somewhat easier cause: Do you want to be like Arthas? Do you want to be like Chen Stormstout? Do you want to be like Illidan? Are pretty compelling questions. Not sure Gazlowe or Mekkatorque have the same mass appeal. They might beat out Chen, but definitely not the other two.

[wargone]

Dragon isles made sense in cata. COULD have been part of MoP. Even in WoD WHo knows.
but since Legion dragon isles made no sense..

tinker class could be done without dragon isles, and ones more could have made since in BFA with mechagnomes but yea, tinker class is dead in the water.

Edit: ALso Why would Dragon isles introduce Tinker? I cant be Bothered to find it now, but there been done some amazing Dragon-ish classes, Where your Specilations would be like Red or green dragon for healing, Black dragon for tanking or meleeing, And then maybe Bronze for something else. Or Red for ranged, or what have you. But that owuld make so much more sense, in a Possible" dragon isles" expation

[Triceron]

For me Dragon Knight or Dragon sworn of what have you, is killed by the meta. It isn't allowed to be stronger than a rogue so it just looks silly that all the empowerment of the dragons aspects lets you be just as strong as a random dude with two butter knives. As for riding a mech, unless they provide something cool gameplay wise, the novelty will wear off quickly. Cool anime shit is cool, but what will the mech even be? Just something visual? Extra armor? Extra damage? What will happen if the mech will get destroyed? Will it occupy a gear slot and have tons of variatons, or will it be like druid forms? If the latter, people won't like it. It seems a hard sell for anyone who doesn't want to just ride mechs. Question is, are there enough people like that in the fandom?

So is that a problem with the class concept?

Does this not apply to other classes like DK and Demon Hunter? I don't think its a problem for the general audience. I'm fine if you have this issue, I'm simply regarding it as an exception because most people don't have this problem with Hero classes being balanced to be on the power level of a Rogue or Priest.

The ideal characters that represent Dragonsworn are the Aspects, Wrathion and Chromie. Wrathion is the ideal Dragon character, and the gameplay archetypes we can extrapolate from characters like Alexstrasza and Chromie from Heroes of the Storm. That is the basis for a Dragon themed class.

DK, Monk and DH had it somewhat easier cause: Do you want to be like Arthas? Do you want to be like Chen Stormstout? Do you want to be like Illidan? Are pretty compelling questions. Not sure Gazlowe or Mekkatorque have the same mass appeal. They might beat out Chen, but definitely not the other two.

Maybe not to you, but is that going to be a problem?

So Blizzard isn't going to consider Tinkers because you don't think people find Mekkatorque or Gazlowe appealing enough? Then why would we get Monks before Dark Rangers? Brewmasters could have just been a form of Pandaren Warrior or Shaman who culturally fights with Martial Arts. I don't think we needed a full class just because of Chen, he could have just represented the Pandaren Race.

It's more an excuse to have a Monk class for the sake of it, since they had planned for a martial arts type of class since Vanilla WoW with the Runemaster. This is what I regard Blizzard doing for any class - if they want it playable they will pursue it for whatever reason they internally have to do so.

I didn't come to the conclusion that Tinker and Dragonsworn are the most probable because of what people want to play as, I consider it plausible because they're the most likely options that Blizzard could be considering at this moment. Plenty of other classes can be considered by fans, like Shadow Hunters or Dark Rangers, but does Blizzard have any real interest in pursuing these as a class? I don't see it if they did.

Dark Ranger already had its chance with Shadowlands, but they're deciding to throw its abilities on a Hunter Legendary and leave it at that. Blizzard hasn't shown too much interest in developing Shadow Hunters as a class, considering they have always been Troll-centric with no greater racial appeal. I mean even an example of more races taking interest in Loas would be enough for me to take it into higher consideration, but they're mostly regarded as racial rep factions, and more importantly fairly exclusively to Horde. I'd love a Shadow Hunter class, but I don't see the same enthusiasm coming from Blizzard whatsoever.

[Stardrift]

Personally, I don't think Blizzard will introduce a new class with 10.0.

But, tinkers are pretty volatile. I'd classify them to be in the same vein as warriors/hunters/rogues. They don't really have a restrictive theme like necromancers, dark rangers, death knights and demon hunters do. Blizzard can easily write them in to anything.

[Triceron]

Here's where we disagree. I don't think it matters. Like, not even a little. Tinkers are an incredibly broad class concept and a very common archetype. It's the sort of class that feels right at home right from the start of the game, feeling muc more like a Warrior, Priest or Mage than the super specific Death Knight or Demon Hunter. It doesn't need a backstory or origin. It just is.

If you are adding a super specific class I agree that it would be weird to not tie it in to the expansion. IF they were adding Demon Hunters to an expansion that didn't feature a single Demon, that would be odd given how hyper specific the class is. But something as general as a technology class, one that already exists in game? It doesn't really need an explanation or introduction, or a tie to the narrative of an expansion.

The point I'm making isn't whether or not Blizzard could say 'F the story and setting, lets just add the class', it's asking what gives us any indication that they _would want to do this_.

Its like if we were talking about playable Naga as an allied race in BFA. The issue is Blizzard themselves seem unwilling to add them because of specific reasons concerning tech and design, and there is no indication they want to further explore them as an Allied Race. Its not they they can't, its that it doesn't seem to align with their current interests and reasonings behind what new Allied races to add.

And clearly, its easier to consider the addition of actual humanoid races like Vulpera and Mechagnomes than it would have been to assume Naga be added just because of it being possible, being a fan demand, and having Nazjatar as a mid expansion location. Make sense?

This is the same logic I've applied in discussing Classes in context to expansions. Is there any indication that Blizzard would want to add Tinkers to Dragon Isles for the purpose of a certain story? I've not heard a compelling suggestion if so, and I can point to all the other confused posters who see no relevance between the concepts as a general example of how it's a fairly unintuitive concept to discuss.

[DingDongKing]

This thread needs to die.

[samuro]

Tinker class had its chance with the iron horde, but it might have another one in an expansion with heavy use of technology that is possible with the lightbound as villains

[Wangming]

I didn't come to the conclusion that Tinker and Dragonsworn are the most probable because of what people want to play as, I consider it plausible because they're the most likely options that Blizzard could be considering at this moment. Plenty of other classes can be considered by fans, like Shadow Hunters or Dark Rangers, but does Blizzard have any real interest in pursuing these as a class? I don't see it if they did.

I understand that. But I kinda heared that argument from tinkers fans every expansion. 8.0 might have naga stuff in it? Well a specialized mech can go underwater. 9.0 will be Shadowlands? Machines don't have souls, so Tinkers are the best weapons against death. Plus Ghostbusters is cool.

Maybe I'm just tired of all the "It is totally coming this time, honest" Threads. This is like the monkeys and typwriters thing. It will be correct eventually if people guess it for every expansion.

[jellmoo]

The point I'm making isn't whether or not Blizzard could say 'F the story and setting, lets just add the class', it's asking what gives us any indication that they _would want to do this_.

Its like if we were talking about playable Naga as an allied race in BFA. The issue is Blizzard themselves seem unwilling to add them because of specific reasons concerning tech and design, and there is no indication they want to further explore them as an Allied Race. Its not they they can't, its that it doesn't seem to align with their current interests and reasonings behind what new Allied races to add.

And clearly, its easier to consider the addition of actual humanoid races like Vulpera and Mechagnomes than it would have been to assume Naga be added just because of it being possible, being a fan demand, and having Nazjatar as a mid expansion location. Make sense?

This is the same logic I've applied in discussing Classes in context to expansions. Is there any indication that Blizzard would want to add Tinkers to Dragon Isles for the purpose of a certain story? I've not heard a compelling suggestion if so, and I can point to all the other confused posters who see no relevance between the concepts as a general example of how it's a fairly unintuitive concept to discuss.

The thing is, why do we need an indication of what Blizzard would or wouldn't do? What I mean is, that we, as fans, simply do not have the information to do anything other than guess. We have a sample size of three added classes over 16 years, each developed with an incredibly different methodology, by a different game team, for a different purpose. We can guess until the cows come home as to how or why Blizzard does something, but that's literally all it is. Guesswork.

Attributing to them a reason for them to want to include a class outside of the narrative of an expansion assumes that there needs to be a reason, which really isn't the case. We don't have any of that information. I would argue that their prime motivation is very likely not a narrative one, rather it's metric based. Whether it's units sold, new subs, returning subs, whatever, that this will be their prime motivation. And they will take whatever path is most likely to get them there. Is it having a class that matches the expansion? Absolutely possible, yeah. But if they're data says that Expansion Idea A and New Class X, though not related, are the ones most players are excited about, do you really think that they would willfully steer away from that if such a thing was doable?

I think the folly of the Naga example is that it simply works on the assumption that Blizzard will give fans what they want, when that clearly has not been the case. If it were, we'd have playable Ogres, Naga and Vrykul, the Alliance would have High Elves, the Alliance would have gotten something way cooler than Mechagnomes, and every Druid race would have completely unique forms to play with. All of it is possible, but none of it was done. We don't know why not, but at the same time we have no way of knowing if any of these things will be done in the future, if any of them were seriously considered, or if any of them are currently planned.

Other MMOs have been more than willing to add new classes that don't actually have much, if anything to do with the narrative of an expansion. I don't see why Blizzard could not take a similar approach, and with the very limited sample size we have of them adding new classes to the game over such a long period, I don't think we have the information at hand to et us reach a conclusion that says that this is something they would be unwilling, or need convincing to do.

[Triceron]

I understand that. But I kinda heared that argument from tinkers fans every expansion. 8.0 might have naga stuff in it? Well a specialized mech can go underwater. 9.0 will be Shadowlands? Machines don't have souls, so Tinkers are the best weapons against death. Plus Ghostbusters is cool.

Maybe I'm just tired of all the "It is totally coming this time, honest" Threads. This is like the monkeys and typwriters thing. It will be correct eventually if people guess it for every expansion.

Well, to be honest that problem is unique to being a forumer here, and is easily solved by just ignoring the threads and chatter.

You'd never get this from WoW Reddit or following popular WoW Youtubers, for example.

[Revamp Man]

I understand that. But I kinda heared that argument from tinkers fans every expansion. 8.0 might have naga stuff in it? Well a specialized mech can go underwater. 9.0 will be Shadowlands? Machines don't have souls, so Tinkers are the best weapons against death. Plus Ghostbusters is cool.

Maybe I'm just tired of all the "It is totally coming this time, honest" Threads. This is like the monkeys and typwriters thing. It will be correct eventually if people guess it for every expansion.

I’m sorry lol but the ghostbusters in the fake shadowlands leak floored me constantly

I loved it

[Triceron]

The thing is, why do we need an indication of what Blizzard would or wouldn't do? What I mean is, that we, as fans, simply do not have the information to do anything other than guess.

And I haven't said anything to counter or dismiss people guessing.

I've said that based on logical analysis of the discussion material, we have nothing to indicate a wild theory such as Tinkers being in Dragon Isles as something substantial and worth discussing, especially after they have given specific reasonings not to have done something similar in Shadowlands

It is nothing more than wild speculation.

We might as well be talking about Sea Witch as a class in Dragon Isles, because why not right?

Well nothing stops me from saying Blizzard has made any indication they'd want to do that. Honestly I'm not sure what you think is wrong with the statements I present, since I'm not saying its impossible, just that it's an idea that is based on pure speculation.

And frankly even the OP is completely in agreement that its pure speculation, and we're both fine with that.


When discussing something like past new classes, we had a lot less to go on to figure out any general guidelines of what they consider for a class and what they wouldn't consider. We know a lot more today than ever, which helps figure out what Blizzard may be intending and what they may mot intend to do. It's the difference between just wildly speculating, and having something substantial to actually talk about. They could make Blademasters for all we know, but we have to look at the class beyond just being what we want to see, and figure if Blizzard is even interested in making a full new class out of it. And based on a lack of indication towards revisiting Burning Blade in the story, the lack of relevance in the future potential of the story, the lack of general demand etc, I think it would not be favourable for Blizzard to pursue. I didn't say it's never going to happen, only that any discussion on the matter is going to be 100% speculation.

[Lolites]

Dragon isles made sense in cata. COULD have been part of MoP. Even in WoD WHo knows.
but since Legion dragon isles made no sense..

tinker class could be done without dragon isles, and ones more could have made since in BFA with mechagnomes but yea, tinker class is dead in the water.

Edit: ALso Why would Dragon isles introduce Tinker? I cant be Bothered to find it now, but there been done some amazing Dragon-ish classes, Where your Specilations would be like Red or green dragon for healing, Black dragon for tanking or meleeing, And then maybe Bronze for something else. Or Red for ranged, or what have you. But that owuld make so much more sense, in a Possible" dragon isles" expation

i agree with the tinker not being connected at all and making no sense

but why dragon isles make no sense since legion? i cant think of anything in legion that would make them less possible, and they were actualy mentioned in BFA

[FossilFree]

Dragonsworn makes more sense for the Dragon Isles. Just combine bronze and blue into a time/arcane dps spec, red and emerald into a healing spec, and black on its own as a tank spec.

[Revamp Man]

i agree with the tinker not being connected at all and making no sense

but why dragon isles make no sense since legion? i cant think of anything in legion that would make them less possible, and they were actualy mentioned in BFA

I’m more interested in how they could have worked in WoD lol

In BfA they had like 5 hints about how Wrathion was looking for them…and he returned…so either he found them or he needed something from us to help him find them and last I checked he now has a good standing with
The 4 other main flights
His ancient brother
The speaker of Azeroth
And he has access to M.O.T.H.E.R. Who has access to every location on Azeroth

[wargone]

i agree with the tinker not being connected at all and making no sense

but why dragon isles make no sense since legion? i cant think of anything in legion that would make them less possible, and they were actualy mentioned in BFA

It not that Dragon isles does NOT make sense, as a Patch X.1, Like timeless isles, but the storyblizzard have moved into, with jumping to Realm of death, and Hint that the Light might also be as bad as the void. It just.. Dragon isles is No where near that scale.

in D&D terms that would be a level 15 party clearing out 5 goblins in a cave, because they injured an farmers cow. Or Lord of the rings, if the whole fellowship decided to take time off their epic campaign to do a beach episode(or look for a single theif who stole a 5 coins, just cus)
- it An patch not an expation

[Lolites]

It not that Dragon isles does NOT make sense, as a Patch X.1, Like timeless isles, but the storyblizzard have moved into, with jumping to Realm of death, and Hint that the Light might also be as bad as the void. It just.. Dragon isles is No where near that scale.

i mean, before BFA Boralus was small island city, and pandaria started with brewmaster (or some time before that with pandaren race as april fools joke) in w3, so we know they can inflate whatever they want into expansion if they want to, but yes, i think if we ever get them they will be patch zone rather than expansion continent, sadly as i love dragons

and we have one VERY OLD concept art piece of dragon isles with temple carved into huge old god minion skull carved (similar to one in darkshore just MUCH bigger) so they can tie it to void, we can go there to look for weapon agaisnt light or whatever

my preference would be "no world ending threat expansion", although i doubt we ever get one of those again
just Wrathion going there to look for info he wants and we acompanying him to look for treasures

- - - Updated - - -

I’m more interested in how they could have worked in WoD lol

eh, with bronze (and infinite) dragons being behind timetravel they could work in WOD, well they could be part of WOD, they couldnt work as nothing in wod did

[Sum if Fun1]

eh, with bronze (and infinite) dragons being behind timetravel they could work in WOD, well they could be part of WOD, they couldnt work as nothing in wod did

the classes did

[wargone]

i mean, before BFA Boralus was small island city, and pandaria started with brewmaster (or some time before that with pandaren race as april fools joke) in w3, so we know they can inflate whatever they want into expansion if they want to, but yes, i think if we ever get them they will be patch zone rather than expansion continent, sadly as i love dragons

I guess. but BFA was not just Boralus + zandalar and the key factor here would be " the 4th war"
Like, Dragon isles COuld be a fine part of an expation but not the set peace

- and i agree, I would like a good old mist of pandaria expation, that is not galaxtic superpoweres.

[Lolites]

I guess. but BFA was not just Boralus + zandalar and the key factor here would be " the 4th war"
Like, Dragon isles COuld be a fine part of an expation but not the set peace

- and i agree, I would like a good old mist of pandaria expation, that is not galaxtic superpoweres.

knowing blizzard, another faction war is still possible so it could be on dragon isles

ofc the expansion wont be just "dragon isles" there would be some theme, im just saying its absolutely possible they take zone planned for vanila and inflate it to whole expansion, they did so with less (and pretty much did exactly that with shadowlands) and lets be fair, unless we go "cosmic" they dont have much more places to go on azeroth, and theres not much place in general unless we go to the good old cliche "other side of azeroth", which if i think about it could still be dragon isles

- - - Updated - - -

the classes did

fair point, too bad people have nowhere to notice that outside of raids