Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

How interesting! Thanks for sharing that! Hopefully we'll see a proper black hair option for players, as well as a few other colors such as white, beige, brown, and maybe even a really dark red.

Yah! someone told me a while back on twitter! But indeed, I really hope we get true black hair *fingers crossed* and at least white heh!

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Void Elves and Worgen are both non-viable as a race, since neither can reproduce naturally.

Consider we are talking about a world with magic, natural reproduction is not a necessity for viability.

Worgen and Forsaken are both races that don't reproduce naturally, but instead are "cursed", afflictions that can be easily transmitted on humans. Given that valkyr are again outside the control of the forsaken, now they have again became nonviable.

Unlike worgens, were all you need is to be human, and bitten by one. Regardless of the morality of it, mechanically, it is simple.

Then come Void Elves, who are a new race, who we are not even sure they can reproduce naturally, which might not even matter when their birth/death ratio is on the red.

Again, Forsaken viability became an issue in the lore itself, where Sylvanas solved it through the Valkyr; Unlike the Void Elves tho, who are described and seen in lore as a crack squad, and a scholar expedition at most, Forsaken populations were enormous given their origin as the fallen citizenry of Lordaeron and Quel'thalas.

VE's NEED to be viable somehow, every other race already is (even Lightforged Draenei, who are just "uplifted" draenei. Functionally, Void Elves would be the same, just with Void and Elves)

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If they are not infertile, which I personally have not read anywhere, there will be babies. Life find a way.

I don't think WoW is prepared or willing to board the subject of babies with eldritch powers, so I think it's highly likely that VE's are infertile.

I think something interesting is that Nether Prince Druzaan literally wanted to turn the elves into void creatures to replenish his numbers, so it really seems that the easiest way to create void humanoids is to, well, turn another creature.

IMO, I just think it's easier for Void Elves to bolster their numbers by recruiting, in a process much like Alleria, where they learn to control the void little by little until their "graduation", where they absorb a powerful void being.

New playable Void Elves could be on any stage of this process, from initiate like the High Elven wayfarers, to a master range, just below Alleria -who ate a naaru- an on par with the first generation Void Elves, who are already suffused with Void energies because of the aborted ritual that made them.

In a way, new void elves would take a lot longer to make, through dedication and study, rather than the somewhat instantaneous event that created the first generation.

But yeah, unless that first aborted ritual can be replicated on the same way, a process more similar to Alleria's makes simply more sense. It just really seems easier to follow that arduous process rather than to replicate the specifics of an accident.

[FlubberPuddy]

Void Elves and Worgen are both non-viable as a race, since neither can reproduce naturally.

For Worgen, Blizzard actually commented on this already - it's posted on their wikipedia page. But essentially it's just that the Worgen curse is just that - a curse. If two gilnean worgen mated and had a child would just be a regular human without the curse.

For Void Elves, their has to be some unexplained process that Blizzard hasn't explained yet because otherwise yeah I don't think Alleria and that Ethereal dude are purposefully repeating botching a ritual just to make more VEs.

It's probably a question that will be answered in the future, especially since they've now gotten high elf customization (I add this in because initially the reason for their diff skin was being suffused with void energy to the point their mortality was almost taken away - that cannot be the case for regular tone Void Elves).

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

(I add this in because initially the reason for their diff skin was being suffused with void energy to the point their mortality was almost taken away - that cannot be the case for regular tone Void Elves).

I mean that at its core is just an issue of employing the lore to justify an aesthetic choice -wanting VE's originally to look different in palette than BE's- but if they walked back that choice -for now, to a degree at least- it would barely be a retcon that from that original generation of VE's, some got just bluer than others.

Because at it's core "oh, Void Elves are blue because they are the result of a specific botched ritual rather than just being generically void infused such as Alleria. " really just is an arbitrary choice determined by the aesthetic they wanted at the time.

They literally could say "yeah, the ritual affected some VE's more in appearance than others" and that be that. Cause lacking any in universe canonical explanation as of why we have natural skin colors on Void Elves, by default it is that; because it it was to canonically meant to represent High Elves, makes no sense there aren't natural hair colors available. If it is a retcon of those initially available VE skin colors, there's just precedent for it being retconed again.

But yeah, unless, or until, we get confirmation about VE viability/recruitment, it's all just speculation. And considering that VE's were introduced like 3 years ago, with no lore beyond that, jeez.

[Vaedan]

For Worgen, Blizzard actually commented on this already - it's posted on their wikipedia page. But essentially it's just that the Worgen curse is just that - a curse. If two gilnean worgen mated and had a child would just be a regular human without the curse.

For Void Elves, their has to be some unexplained process that Blizzard hasn't explained yet because otherwise yeah I don't think Alleria and that Ethereal dude are purposefully repeating botching a ritual just to make more VEs.

It's probably a question that will be answered in the future, especially since they've now gotten high elf customization (I add this in because initially the reason for their diff skin was being suffused with void energy to the point their mortality was almost taken away - that cannot be the case for regular tone Void Elves).

Well, I'd actually like if Void elves woukd resemble Dune's Bene Geserit order. Bene Geserit's manipulative nature, pursuit of perfection and use of Spice to unlock supernatural powers (voices of deceased Bene Geseritans in their heads included). In that way, Void elves would give birth to high elf babies and train them for their transformation.

Void elves would use Void to enhance their abilities instead of Spice ofc. I can imagine there could be a choice of how much Void you, which could result in a range of Void elf appearance from high elven to Void corrupted. Then they could form a society in which they encourage others to use Void while they train them to succeed in doing so.

[BaumanKing]

Well, I'd actually like if Void elves woukd resemble Dune's Bene Geserit order.

I never even thought of that, this is a great analogy. There is so much potential in void elves, too bad Blizzard writers are way too slow in expanding their lore. I don't even understand why they completely ignored void elves during Visions of N'Zoth patch.

[Ardenaso]

I believe the second generation of Void Elves are the wayfarers we see in Telogrus; they can become Void Elves without needing to be quenched by Durzaan's void juice; they should be able to reproduce by means of a High/Blood Elf learning Void immersion

[Vaedan]

I believe the second generation of Void Elves are the wayfarers we see in Telogrus; they can become Void Elves without needing to be quenched by Durzaan's void juice; they should be able to reproduce by means of a High/Blood Elf learning Void immersion

There are solid implications something like that happens, but we still need some comfirmation. We really need some new racial more for most races. BfA was focused mostly on Kul Tirans and Zandalari, SL seems to reinforce storylines of certain individuals alongside lore of Shadowland denizens. After a mess which Fourth War, more racial stories seems well in place.

I never even thought of that, this is a great analogy. There is so much potential in void elves, too bad Blizzard writers are way too slow in expanding their lore. I don't even understand why they completely ignored void elves during Visions of N'Zoth patch.

Indeed. It was most ideal time to give Void elves some spotlight. Almost everybody on Azeroth was experiencing whispers and mental assaults from N'zoth. Unfortunately, BfA was one great missed opportunity from lore perspective.

[Varodoc]

There are solid implications something like that happens, but we still need some comfirmation. We really need some new racial more for most races. BfA was focused mostly on Kul Tirans and Zandalari, SL seems to reinforce storylines of certain individuals alongside lore of Shadowland denizens. After a mess which Fourth War, more racial stories seems well in place.



Indeed. It was most ideal time to give Void elves some spotlight. Almost everybody on Azeroth was experiencing whispers and mental assaults from N'zoth. Unfortunately, BfA was one great missed opportunity from lore perspective.

What Blizzard did to the Ren'dorei in 8.3 was criminal. Anduin DID NOT EVEN MENTION the Ren'dorei when LOOKING FOR ADVISORS TO HELP HIM FIGHT THE WHISPERS. I hope Blizzard are happy with the new Wranduin moments 8.3 gave the community, because they came at the cost of the Ren'dorei's story development.

[FossilFree]

They need to stop seeing ARs as some sort of filler story and start integrating them fully.

[Kyriani]

They need to stop seeing ARs as some sort of filler story and start integrating them fully.

That would be nice, but it flies in the face of what allied races were originally intended to be. In concept, allied races were supposed to be quick and easy to add races that required little upkeep after the initial investment. The formula is basically: race has either existed previously as NPC's (zandalari, kul tirans, dark iron, mag'har) or are a new race introduced in a new expansion (lightforged, nightborne, highmountain, vulpera, mechagnomes), race is featured in content, content culminates into race being unlockable as an allied race, little effort invested in a starting area (typically reused assets if they even get one at all), no new zones necessary to be made (usually). From that point forward the foundation for the allied race is laid and blizzard can decide if and when to feature members of that allied race doing things in the story going forward.

That formula basically works for every allied race except for void elves. Void elves, insofar as the playable race goes, weren't featured in legion at all. They don't exist until after their unlock scenario and that presents a problem right there. While every other allied race from legion had screen time prior to being playable, void elves (the playable race), did not. So void elves had little to no foundation laid beyond Alleria's Argus arc, which if we're being honest, had little to nothing to do with Umbric, his followers, or their transformation. At the time of release void elves also could look nothing like Alleria making it a hard sell to call her Argus story arc the foundational first appearance of void elves. The new skin tone options sort of help in that regard, but even more than two years later we still don't know exactly how new void elves are coming into being.

Void elves require additional lore to fill in certain (in some cases vital) gaps in what we know about them. No other allied race has questions about their sustainability. Even lightforged have their unlock scenario which basically takes you through the (repeatable) process by which they become uplifted. Umbric and his followers on the other hand, were transformed due to an accident during a ritual that was intended to transform them into void ethereals. I am hard pressed to believe that Umbric or Alleria would try to recreate such a thing when Alleria proves there is another, safer, way to gain mastery over the void. But blizzard has yet to tell us what exactly it is that new recruits go through to be come void elves.

Heck, we still don't even know if the high elves and blood elves in Telogrus are actually becoming void elves, or if their just there to learn about the void. I mean, the implication that they are in fact the newer generation of void elves is there, but we have no in-game confirmation of this. Again the new skin tone options help here, but actual in-game lore is required (imo) to really lay a solid foundation for void elves going forward.

Speaking of Telogrus, that was a new (albeit small) zone that blizzard had to create for void elves. They couldn't just reuse an existing zone like every other allied race. While that worked in favor of the void elves (I love Telogrus Rift), it also serves as an example of why an allied race needs to be thoughtfully planned out and featured in game before being unlockable (imo). What's really funny is, if Blizzard had simply gone with high elves instead of void elves, they would have had to do a lot less work (they could have started right in Stormwind) and the lore issues plaguing void elves would not exist.

That's not to say I don't like void elves. I think they have the potential to be incredibly interesting. I like the concept of mastering the void and the void aesthetics like entropic embrace, tentacle hair options (though I'd prefer the tentacle be a toggle so all all hairstyles could have them or not per taste), and even the original skin tones on some characters, but lore-wise they really need more development so they fit into the world better.

Even if blizzard just came right out and said those high elf wayfarers and blood elf scholars are becoming void elves through a process similar to Alleria's, that alone would settle key outstanding questions about void elves and how they will continue to survive going forward. It also wouldn't hurt if they told us why high elves are joining. It's easy to chalk up blood elves as being interested in any type of magic, regardless of danger (Umbric and company are a prime example of that), but avoiding questionable magical practices is kind of one of the primary reasons that high elves even exist on the alliance to begin with. Sure, blizzard could just tell us that post-legion or post-fourth war, some high elves want to be more proactive in helping the alliance, and joining Alleria is the way they have chosen to do so, but blizzard has to tell us that and not just leave it up to head canon.

[Swnem]

Void Elves and Worgen are both non-viable as a race, since neither can reproduce naturally.

You are assuming that.

Is it actually confirmed anywhere? We don't know if void elf features and connection don't pass to offspring. In the same way, we don't know if the worhen curse does too. You are assuming they dont, but the real answer is we don't know.

Unless theres some obscure lore i missed.

[Vaedan]

That would be nice, but it flies in the face of what allied races were originally intended to be. In concept, allied races were supposed to be quick and easy to add races that required little upkeep after the initial investment. The formula is basically: race has either existed previously as NPC's (zandalari, kul tirans, dark iron, mag'har) or are a new race introduced in a new expansion (lightforged, nightborne, highmountain, vulpera, mechagnomes), race is featured in content, content culminates into race being unlockable as an allied race, little effort invested in a starting area (typically reused assets if they even get one at all), no new zones necessary to be made (usually). From that point forward the foundation for the allied race is laid and blizzard can decide if and when to feature members of that allied race doing things in the story going forward.

That formula basically works for every allied race except for void elves. Void elves, insofar as the playable race goes, weren't featured in legion at all. They don't exist until after their unlock scenario and that presents a problem right there. While every other allied race from legion had screen time prior to being playable, void elves (the playable race), did not. So void elves had little to no foundation laid beyond Alleria's Argus arc, which if we're being honest, had little to nothing to do with Umbric, his followers, or their transformation. At the time of release void elves also could look nothing like Alleria making it a hard sell to call her Argus story arc the foundational first appearance of void elves. The new skin tone options sort of help in that regard, but even more than two years later we still don't know exactly how new void elves are coming into being.

Void elves require additional lore to fill in certain (in some cases vital) gaps in what we know about them. No other allied race has questions about their sustainability. Even lightforged have their unlock scenario which basically takes you through the (repeatable) process by which they become uplifted. Umbric and his followers on the other hand, were transformed due to an accident during a ritual that was intended to transform them into void ethereals. I am hard pressed to believe that Umbric or Alleria would try to recreate such a thing when Alleria proves there is another, safer, way to gain mastery over the void. But blizzard has yet to tell us what exactly it is that new recruits go through to be come void elves.

Heck, we still don't even know if the high elves and blood elves in Telogrus are actually becoming void elves, or if their just there to learn about the void. I mean, the implication that they are in fact the newer generation of void elves is there, but we have no in-game confirmation of this. Again the new skin tone options help here, but actual in-game lore is required (imo) to really lay a solid foundation for void elves going forward.

Speaking of Telogrus, that was a new (albeit small) zone that blizzard had to create for void elves. They couldn't just reuse an existing zone like every other allied race. While that worked in favor of the void elves (I love Telogrus Rift), it also serves as an example of why an allied race needs to be thoughtfully planned out and featured in game before being unlockable (imo). What's really funny is, if Blizzard had simply gone with high elves instead of void elves, they would have had to do a lot less work (they could have started right in Stormwind) and the lore issues plaguing void elves would not exist.

That's not to say I don't like void elves. I think they have the potential to be incredibly interesting. I like the concept of mastering the void and the void aesthetics like entropic embrace, tentacle hair options (though I'd prefer the tentacle be a toggle so all all hairstyles could have them or not per taste), and even the original skin tones on some characters, but lore-wise they really need more development so they fit into the world better.

Even if blizzard just came right out and said those high elf wayfarers and blood elf scholars are becoming void elves through a process similar to Alleria's, that alone would settle key outstanding questions about void elves and how they will continue to survive going forward. It also wouldn't hurt if they told us why high elves are joining. It's easy to chalk up blood elves as being interested in any type of magic, regardless of danger (Umbric and company are a prime example of that), but avoiding questionable magical practices is kind of one of the primary reasons that high elves even exist on the alliance to begin with. Sure, blizzard could just tell us that post-legion or post-fourth war, some high elves want to be more proactive in helping the alliance, and joining Alleria is the way they have chosen to do so, but blizzard has to tell us that and not just leave it up to head canon.

Well said. You have a good point that adding high elves could take less effort. They could easily use some high elf lodge, instanced Crystalsong forest, or have their hub integrated into SW same way Mag'har are housed in Orgrimmar. I also think distancing high elves from blood elves via different customizations would not be hard either, first 200 pages of this thread showed many good ideas. I wouldn't be even opposed to an idea of "Nozdormu" style high elves using night elf model.

That said, I don't mind we got Void elves in the end. They have their own appeal and they certainly have their potential. The sad thing is we see almost no development, except seeing some ren'dorei doing void tricks during War campaign. Also, until now, we have only two notable Void elf characters, the rest are named NPCs/vendor at best and no name mobs at worst.

What we really need to get on Void elf front:
- general direction of the race/nation. What they stand for? What are their goals?
- given their faction swap, how they integrated within the Alliance? Are they bitter towards the Horde? Do they symphatize with Alliance ideals? Right now, we only know Alleria's and Umbric's opinion on that matter.
- how they interact with high elves which alligned themselves with the Alliance years ago? How they overcome the mistrust and prejudice high elves had towards blood elves?
- more notable characters

Other allied races have these points covered by the time they join their perspective factions.

It also feels Blizz probably decided to get some feedback to decide what to do with Void elves. I personaly like idea of Void elves becoming kind of "Space" elves, delving into Astromancy and researching misterious powers of the cosmos. Their heritage would fit very well with that.

[Traveler Voltin]

You are assuming that.

Is it actually confirmed anywhere? We don't know if void elf features and connection don't pass to offspring. In the same way, we don't know if the worhen curse does too. You are assuming they dont, but the real answer is we don't know.

Unless theres some obscure lore i missed.

Worgen dont make Worgen babies. they make human babies. Blizzard made some stupid reason that doesnt really make since.

[Combatbutler]

You are assuming that.

Is it actually confirmed anywhere? We don't know if void elf features and connection don't pass to offspring. In the same way, we don't know if the worhen curse does too. You are assuming they dont, but the real answer is we don't know.

Unless theres some obscure lore i missed.

Void elf children would be born batshit insane, since they have no willpower to keep the void at bay and all their features are directly linked to void corruption. In terms of worgen, Blizz specifically stated the worgen curse is not inherited.

[Vaedan]

Void elf children would be born batshit insane, since they have no willpower to keep the void at bay and all their features are directly linked to void corruption. In terms of worgen, Blizz specifically stated the worgen curse is not inherited.

Void corruption might not be inherited as well then, so if worgen, whose biology was twisted in a extreme way give birth to uncorrupted children, we can't say Void elf babies would have to be born corrupted. We'll have to wait for a confirmation from Blizzard, if they ever decide to explain it.

[Combatbutler]

Void corruption might not be inherited as well then, so if worgen, whose biology was twisted in a extreme way give birth to uncorrupted children, we can't say Void elf babies would have to be born corrupted. We'll have to wait for a confirmation from Blizzard, if they ever decide to explain it.

Void is even more corruptive than fel energy and slight fel corruption can spread several generations

[Vaedan]

Void is even more corruptive than fel energy and slight fel corruption can spread several generations

And yet fel corruption blood elves got is being cleansed now, only few years after they got corrupted.

My point is, until we got confirmation from Blizzard, all we can do is speculate. Right now, we can't say Void elf babies would be 100% corrupted or 100% pure.

I agree that if they would be born corrupted, they'd be insane right away, because resisting whispers require trained mind. I mean, it could be interesting twist to a race. Similar to the Forsaken, they would need to find other ways to procreate.

[delus]

The corruptive nature of magics is debatable. The only thing I see differently with void is that you hear voices, possibly opening your perspective up to many possibilities. Light, however has been shown to lead individuals down a singular path leading to zealotry. Perhaps fel affects it's users in a similar way, being the opposite of arcane order, leading to them being chaotic.

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Asking the devs about void elf babies would be a good candidate for a lore call out.

[FossilFree]

That would be nice, but it flies in the face of what allied races were originally intended to be. In concept, allied races were supposed to be quick and easy to add races that required little upkeep after the initial investment. The formula is basically: race has either existed previously as NPC's (zandalari, kul tirans, dark iron, mag'har) or are a new race introduced in a new expansion (lightforged, nightborne, highmountain, vulpera, mechagnomes), race is featured in content, content culminates into race being unlockable as an allied race, little effort invested in a starting area (typically reused assets if they even get one at all), no new zones necessary to be made (usually). From that point forward the foundation for the allied race is laid and blizzard can decide if and when to feature members of that allied race doing things in the story going forward.

That formula basically works for every allied race except for void elves. Void elves, insofar as the playable race goes, weren't featured in legion at all. They don't exist until after their unlock scenario and that presents a problem right there. While every other allied race from legion had screen time prior to being playable, void elves (the playable race), did not. So void elves had little to no foundation laid beyond Alleria's Argus arc, which if we're being honest, had little to nothing to do with Umbric, his followers, or their transformation. At the time of release void elves also could look nothing like Alleria making it a hard sell to call her Argus story arc the foundational first appearance of void elves. The new skin tone options sort of help in that regard, but even more than two years later we still don't know exactly how new void elves are coming into being.

Void elves require additional lore to fill in certain (in some cases vital) gaps in what we know about them. No other allied race has questions about their sustainability. Even lightforged have their unlock scenario which basically takes you through the (repeatable) process by which they become uplifted. Umbric and his followers on the other hand, were transformed due to an accident during a ritual that was intended to transform them into void ethereals. I am hard pressed to believe that Umbric or Alleria would try to recreate such a thing when Alleria proves there is another, safer, way to gain mastery over the void. But blizzard has yet to tell us what exactly it is that new recruits go through to be come void elves.

Heck, we still don't even know if the high elves and blood elves in Telogrus are actually becoming void elves, or if their just there to learn about the void. I mean, the implication that they are in fact the newer generation of void elves is there, but we have no in-game confirmation of this. Again the new skin tone options help here, but actual in-game lore is required (imo) to really lay a solid foundation for void elves going forward.

Speaking of Telogrus, that was a new (albeit small) zone that blizzard had to create for void elves. They couldn't just reuse an existing zone like every other allied race. While that worked in favor of the void elves (I love Telogrus Rift), it also serves as an example of why an allied race needs to be thoughtfully planned out and featured in game before being unlockable (imo). What's really funny is, if Blizzard had simply gone with high elves instead of void elves, they would have had to do a lot less work (they could have started right in Stormwind) and the lore issues plaguing void elves would not exist.

That's not to say I don't like void elves. I think they have the potential to be incredibly interesting. I like the concept of mastering the void and the void aesthetics like entropic embrace, tentacle hair options (though I'd prefer the tentacle be a toggle so all all hairstyles could have them or not per taste), and even the original skin tones on some characters, but lore-wise they really need more development so they fit into the world better.

Even if blizzard just came right out and said those high elf wayfarers and blood elf scholars are becoming void elves through a process similar to Alleria's, that alone would settle key outstanding questions about void elves and how they will continue to survive going forward. It also wouldn't hurt if they told us why high elves are joining. It's easy to chalk up blood elves as being interested in any type of magic, regardless of danger (Umbric and company are a prime example of that), but avoiding questionable magical practices is kind of one of the primary reasons that high elves even exist on the alliance to begin with. Sure, blizzard could just tell us that post-legion or post-fourth war, some high elves want to be more proactive in helping the alliance, and joining Alleria is the way they have chosen to do so, but blizzard has to tell us that and not just leave it up to head canon.

All good points, especially the part about Void Elves not having a proper buildup like the other ARs did. If they had the kind of backstory and existing lore that Dark Irons did, I think they wouldn't feel so lacking.

[Lahis]

Well said. You have a good point that adding high elves could take less effort. They could easily use some high elf lodge, instanced Crystalsong forest, or have their hub integrated into SW same way Mag'har are housed in Orgrimmar. I also think distancing high elves from blood elves via different customizations would not be hard either, first 200 pages of this thread showed many good ideas. I wouldn't be even opposed to an idea of "Nozdormu" style high elves using night elf model.

That said, I don't mind we got Void elves in the end. They have their own appeal and they certainly have their potential. The sad thing is we see almost no development, except seeing some ren'dorei doing void tricks during War campaign. Also, until now, we have only two notable Void elf characters, the rest are named NPCs/vendor at best and no name mobs at worst.

What we really need to get on Void elf front:
- general direction of the race/nation. What they stand for? What are their goals?
- given their faction swap, how they integrated within the Alliance? Are they bitter towards the Horde? Do they symphatize with Alliance ideals? Right now, we only know Alleria's and Umbric's opinion on that matter.
- how they interact with high elves which alligned themselves with the Alliance years ago? How they overcome the mistrust and prejudice high elves had towards blood elves?
- more notable characters

Other allied races have these points covered by the time they join their perspective factions.

It also feels Blizz probably decided to get some feedback to decide what to do with Void elves. I personaly like idea of Void elves becoming kind of "Space" elves, delving into Astromancy and researching misterious powers of the cosmos. Their heritage would fit very well with that.

Void Elves came into the game few expansions too early. They have no story right now because their story will happen in the future Light vs. Void expansion that might be as "soon" as 10.0, or later.