THE Classic experience?

[deenman]

So interesting little encounter i had today

Was lvling a hunter,and a priest dots a mob,I dont really notice it and snipe tag it from him...they start laying in to me ''get raped and die'' a bunch more drivel i dont recal and some very flatering stuff about my mum,also they call me a ''paki'',i asume it means pakistani...but i dont really see how thats suposed to be an insult lol

So yeah,i forgot these things happen considering the taging thing hasnt been an issue in retail since a long time ago and most people just que for rdf to lvl anyways

This also kinda goes to show how blizzard quest design was really weird in these times,they give you a quest to kill 15 mobs,but the area they are on...dont even have....15 of them spawned....wile potentialy hundrets of players are trying to kill em

And yes,we know for a fact blizzard never dreamed about being this succesful with this mmo,they expected something like 200k and got 5 milion,but what comes to my mind is...in TYPICAL blizzard fasion even back in 2004...they REFUSED to adress this issue....why didnt they just add more spawns???

I mean small indie companies do this all the time to adress such issues....

And another thing....do you guys and gals REALLY think it would have been so bad to have the retail tagging system in classic??

[Nnyco]

Ye its quite hillarious that it took until WoD for blizzard to figure out that the 'old' tagging system is a piece of shit.

Especially since it didnt add "community", thats just a fewer dream. The reality is that you were fighting your own faction just to get tags, it didnt make me want to group with people around me, it just made me hate em for being around me. Now with the 'new' system i much rather help people that i see in the world.

[deenman]

Ye its quite hillarious that it took until WoD for blizzard to figure out that the 'old' tagging system is a piece of shit.

I mean the tagging thing itself isnt the main issue i see here,its the extremly weird low number of spawns,and in some cases low respawn rates

I played an mmo before that was much worse,the tagging worked differently,a player could snipe your kill and get the credit for it lol

[Tradu]

I mean the tagging thing itself isnt the main issue i see here,its the extremly weird low number of spawns,and in some cases low respawn rates

I played an mmo before that was much worse,the tagging worked differently,a player could snipe your kill and get the credit for it lol

Many specs not having instant damage to tag with is also part of the issue. Adding an initial tick to DoTs was a big QoL change for that reason alone.

[Nnyco]

I mean the tagging thing itself isnt the main issue i see here,its the extremly weird low number of spawns,and in some cases low respawn rates

I played an mmo before that was much worse,the tagging worked differently,a player could snipe your kill and get the credit for it lol

Well it works both ways, if five people can tag one mob at the same time you dont create a bottleneck like vanilla/classic does SO MANY TIMES. It also removes sniping kills which can also be extremly infuriating, especially for certain classes that dont have intial dmg on their instant spells.

[arkanon]

TBC was a step in the right direction with pockets of mobs spread out a little and what seem like decent respawns, but what i do notice is that as you work your way through the 15 kills, by the very nature of time, more and more people show up, and you run around desperately trying to tag the last couple of kills you need.

Generally I will try and group up for kill X quests, but not collect X of Y quests. I have had mixed results recently, as far as the community goes. For the most part it is what i remember and what I expect - every man for himself, tag everything you can. I had an amusing one with the jump-a-tron quest - lvl 70 was there and i asked for inv. no response. I invited - got a /s "piss off noob, im 70 ffs". Ok all good, he spawned the bird, i tagged it. Suddenly he starts spam inviting me as i decline, and decline, and decline. Kill bird, complete quest, ride off (I had already done the egg, but my fear sent the bird half way to shat and it despawned).

The next 10 minutes was me in stitches reading all the psts from this clown, saying I would never find a group on the server again as I was "blacklisted" and I might as well pay for a xfer. He then took it to /4 and started spouting about how I "ninjad HIS mob" and explaining that I was now blacklisted. He was rightfully mocked and laughed at, and the last pst i got was from a now guildless, still angry child telling me i was "harassing" him and he had been kicked from his guild, and as such i was being reported for harassment and I should "enjoy my long ban"

The best part of the encounter? I never replied - not once.

[deenman]

TBC was a step in the right direction with pockets of mobs spread out a little and what seem like decent respawns, but what i do notice is that as you work your way through the 15 kills, by the very nature of time, more and more people show up, and you run around desperately trying to tag the last couple of kills you need.

Generally I will try and group up for kill X quests, but not collect X of Y quests. I have had mixed results recently, as far as the community goes. For the most part it is what i remember and what I expect - every man for himself, tag everything you can. I had an amusing one with the jump-a-tron quest - lvl 70 was there and i asked for inv. no response. I invited - got a /s "piss off noob, im 70 ffs". Ok all good, he spawned the bird, i tagged it. Suddenly he starts spam inviting me as i decline, and decline, and decline. Kill bird, complete quest, ride off (I had already done the egg, but my fear sent the bird half way to shat and it despawned).

The next 10 minutes was me in stitches reading all the psts from this clown, saying I would never find a group on the server again as I was "blacklisted" and I might as well pay for a xfer. He then took it to /4 and started spouting about how I "ninjad HIS mob" and explaining that I was now blacklisted. He was rightfully mocked and laughed at, and the last pst i got was from a now guildless, still angry child telling me i was "harassing" him and he had been kicked from his guild, and as such i was being reported for harassment and I should "enjoy my long ban"

The best part of the encounter? I never replied - not once.

thats just a pure parody of events there lol

[arkanon]

thats just a pure parody of events there lol

I have been playing long enough to just sit back and enjoy the ride when someone loses their shit now. I also saw someone asking for people for Natural Remedies - that quest with the rock giant dudes in HFP. He was 70, and long story short, raged at me and kicked me for wanting to do Slabs at like, 63 or w/e i was back then. tldr he raged like a toddler, after kicking me from the group, because "everyone knows the quest is in shadow labs". I politely said "must be some confusion mate, the quest you linked is in HFP and is just a lvl 63 group quest, not a dungeon quest" but it didnt matter. He just went totally mental talking about "noobs who dont know shit about tbc" and "retail noobs" etc etc etc.

I just sat back and enjoyed the ride as everyone in chat attacked and mocked him, while he doubled down on the quest being in SLABS. He then started looking for members for Heroic Ramps. eventually got his group together, then the real fun began. He couldnt zone in and started raging in chat about "lockouts" and "idiots locked to the dungeon". Turns out, he didnt have the key, and only had friendly rep.

At first i thought he was just trolling, but he wasted well over an hour of his time abusing everyone and forming a group for a dungeon he couldnt even do, so i suspect it was a purchased account, somewhat confirmed by someone in his heroic ramps grp confirming he said "bullshit, this account came with all keys".

[Kralljin]

And another thing....do you guys and gals REALLY think it would have been so bad to have the retail tagging system in classic??

I've had this discussion months ago and without even mentioning the issue of social interaction, you'd enable questionable strats.

First off, every person tagging another mob effectively generates another loot table, meaning that you'd see far more inflation because neither loot, nor gold from that mob is shared but generated seperately for each player.
This naturally means a lot more inflation and also affects the market of stuff such as Primals, people with a 2nd account could have their second character on /follow and effectively double their farmrate.

This would also actively discourage grouping up with players, because then you'd have to share the loot.

Second, it would enable pretty degenerate leveling strats.
Imagine 10+ Mages pulling an entire camp and just AoE them all down.
Think what a few mages could do on something such as the Bloodelf Terrace at the Black Temple when everyone of them (or any person that just holds in some AoE effect) gets full XP, loot and Gold.

[deenman]

I've had this discussion months ago and without even mentioning the issue of social interaction, you'd enable questionable strats.

First off, every person tagging another mob effectively generates another loot table, meaning that you'd see far more inflation because neither loot, nor gold from that mob is shared but generated seperately for each player.
This naturally means a lot more inflation and also affects the market of stuff such as Primals, people with a 2nd account could have their second character on /follow and effectively double their farmrate.

This would also actively discourage grouping up with players, because then you'd have to share the loot.

Second, it would enable pretty degenerate leveling strats.
Imagine 10+ Mages pulling an entire camp and just AoE them all down.
Think what a few mages could do on something such as the Bloodelf Terrace at the Black Temple if every gets full XP, loot and Gold.

just have taging for quest loot and credit

and greatly nerf xp the more people tag it

- - - Updated - - -

I have been playing long enough to just sit back and enjoy the ride when someone loses their shit now. I also saw someone asking for people for Natural Remedies - that quest with the rock giant dudes in HFP. He was 70, and long story short, raged at me and kicked me for wanting to do Slabs at like, 63 or w/e i was back then. tldr he raged like a toddler, after kicking me from the group, because "everyone knows the quest is in shadow labs". I politely said "must be some confusion mate, the quest you linked is in HFP and is just a lvl 63 group quest, not a dungeon quest" but it didnt matter. He just went totally mental talking about "noobs who dont know shit about tbc" and "retail noobs" etc etc etc.

I just sat back and enjoyed the ride as everyone in chat attacked and mocked him, while he doubled down on the quest being in SLABS. He then started looking for members for Heroic Ramps. eventually got his group together, then the real fun began. He couldnt zone in and started raging in chat about "lockouts" and "idiots locked to the dungeon". Turns out, he didnt have the key, and only had friendly rep.

At first i thought he was just trolling, but he wasted well over an hour of his time abusing everyone and forming a group for a dungeon he couldnt even do, so i suspect it was a purchased account, somewhat confirmed by someone in his heroic ramps grp confirming he said "bullshit, this account came with all keys".

you seem to find some crazy people,just curious are you usa or eu lol

[arkanon]

you seem to find some crazy people,just curious are you usa or eu lol

Oceanic - comes with the territory my dude. To be clear, I have far more examples where i simply grouped up with people, did the quest, said TY and left. But those are pretty boring.

[Kralljin]

just have taging for quest loot and credit

Okay, and how do you decide who gets the regular loot?

The initial tagger?
Doesn't it goes back to square one?
Because other people can essentially steal their loot, which makes them earn less gold from questing.

This also disregards any potential strats to easily farm rep with factions where kills grant rep.

and greatly nerf xp the more people tag it

Which invariably fucks the XP rates of people, because they don't get full XP anymore.
After all, the amount of XP you get from killing mobs is also pretty substantial.

That would also have to kick in really fast, because 3-4 people could already take down loads of non elite mobs when they're prepared.

And that's not even mentioning the potential to grief the XP rates of others, because they don't have any influence whether someone else tags their mobs.

There is a reason why you get less XP in Classic / TBC from mobs kills when you are in a group, because a group takes mobs down much faster than a solo player.

[Saltysquidoon]

I remember way back in the sands of time doing a quest for two hours that involved killing spiders for boar livers or some shit because ~30ish people were all trying to do it at once and the drop rate was obscenely poor. I should have just moved on but my pride wouldn't let me.

I can look back on that with nostalgia now but at the time I was just aggravated. But hey, isn't being nostalgic about something only to find out actually doing it is bullshit the essence of the 'classic experience'?

[deenman]

Okay, and how do you decide who gets the regular loot?

The initial tagger?
Doesn't it goes back to square one?
Because other people can essentially steal their loot, which makes them earn less gold from questing.

This also disregards any potential strats to easily farm rep with factions where kills grant rep.

Which invariably fucks the XP rates of people, because they don't get full XP anymore.
After all, the amount of XP you get from killing mobs is also pretty substantial.

That would also have to kick in really fast, because 3-4 people could already take down loads of non elite mobs when they're prepared.

And that's not even mentioning the potential to grief the XP rates of others, because they don't have any influence whether someone else tags their mobs.

There is a reason why you get less XP in Classic / TBC from mobs kills when you are in a group, because a group takes mobs down much faster than a solo player.

The loot goes the same way it goes in a 5 man grp,one person gets to loot it dont see how this would be much different

and the xp thing is just the sacrifice you take on when you decide to tag that mob,whats more important?a bit of extra xp?or missing the mob for the quest?up to the person

[DonChalk]

The loot goes the same way it goes in a 5 man grp,one person gets to loot it dont see how this would be much different

and the xp thing is just the sacrifice you take on when you decide to tag that mob,whats more important?a bit of extra xp?or missing the mob for the quest?up to the person

I mean, it's not really up to the person in regards to xp though because other players can still come along and tag their quest mobs and kill their Exp, sending us back to the original scenario

[Kralljin]

The loot goes the same way it goes in a 5 man grp,one person gets to loot it dont see how this would be much different

In other words, i can just occassionally take loot from other people by running around and tagging what they're fighting?
Yeah, that will surely be well received.

Seems also a tad bit confusing, i fight a mob, someone runs by and applies a random effect and for some reason that person gets the loot.

It works in 5man groups because it's 5 pre determined people, whereas in this instance, it's continously changing.
Person A may tag mob X,Y and Z, Person B might however only tag X & Y.

Now throw in Person C-F who might tag any or all of those mobs and it gets even more confusing.

And i might add that gold is baseline shared in groups, surely will not go very well when gold is shared among every person that tags it.

and the xp thing is just the sacrifice you take on when you decide to tag that mob,whats more important?a bit of extra xp?or missing the mob for the quest?up to the person

The "sacrifice" is whenever you accept another invite (or invite someone else) that you have to share the loot in TBC, the upside is that you get more tags and are overall more efficient as two player characters working together are stronger than two seperate characters.

In (Classic) TBC, you have the choice, in Retail, you don't, everything is shared.

Mate, your idea to have the modern tagsystem and avoid any potential pitfalls of such a thing frankly doesn't work, especially not when this system is supposed to retain even a fraction of simplicity.

[deenman]

In other words, i can just occassionally take loot from other people by running around and tagging what they're fighting?
Yeah, that will surely be well received.

Seems also a tad bit confusing, i fight a mob, someone runs by and applies a random effect and for some reason that person gets the loot.

It works in 5man groups because it's 5 pre determined people, whereas in this instance, it's continously changing.
Person A may tag mob X,Y and Z, Person B might however only tag X & Y.

Now throw in Person C-F who might tag any or all of those mobs and it gets even more confusing.

And i might add that gold is baseline shared in groups, surely will not go very well when gold is shared among every person that tags it.

The "sacrifice" is whenever you accept another invite (or invite someone else) that you have to share the loot in TBC, the upside is that you get more tags and are overall more efficient as two player characters working together are stronger than two seperate characters.

In (Classic) TBC, you have the choice, in Retail, you don't, everything is shared.

Mate, your idea to have the modern tagsystem and avoid any potential pitfalls of such a thing frankly doesn't work, especially not when this system is supposed to retain even a fraction of simplicity.

yeah you make good points

[panda040]

So interesting little encounter i had today

Was lvling a hunter,and a priest dots a mob,I dont really notice it and snipe tag it from him...they start laying in to me ''get raped and die'' a bunch more drivel i dont recal and some very flatering stuff about my mum,also they call me a ''paki'',i asume it means pakistani...but i dont really see how thats suposed to be an insult lol

So yeah,i forgot these things happen considering the taging thing hasnt been an issue in retail since a long time ago and most people just que for rdf to lvl anyways

This also kinda goes to show how blizzard quest design was really weird in these times,they give you a quest to kill 15 mobs,but the area they are on...dont even have....15 of them spawned....wile potentialy hundrets of players are trying to kill em

And yes,we know for a fact blizzard never dreamed about being this succesful with this mmo,they expected something like 200k and got 5 milion,but what comes to my mind is...in TYPICAL blizzard fasion even back in 2004...they REFUSED to adress this issue....why didnt they just add more spawns???

I mean small indie companies do this all the time to adress such issues....

And another thing....do you guys and gals REALLY think it would have been so bad to have the retail tagging system in classic??

The tagging isn't an issue. as a hunter few people can tag as quickly as you. Every game is going to have mean people, simply ignore them and move on with your life happy that you wont have to hear from them again.... maybe just a tag a couple more of their mobs

[klogaroth]

Had a minor version of this with a click to use item in prepatch. Had been killing my way towards it for a couple of minutes, when someone from the opposite faction (pve server) rolls up and tags the last mob before the quest item. Naturally, having killed every other mob on the way there, that they walked past the corpse of, I just click the item. It being classic, this of course prompts a /spit because they don't want to wait the short time it takes for the item to respawn to click. I start to move off, but turn around briefly to click on them for a /smile. Sadly since they weren't on the same faction, that's as far as the story goes.

[Ector]

The "sacrifice" is whenever you accept another invite (or invite someone else) that you have to share the loot in TBC, the upside is that you get more tags and are overall more efficient as two player characters working together are stronger than two seperate characters.

I play with a friend always and I remember thinking that we were disadvantaged by the "sacrifice" at least in terms of drops and xp. We move so fast these days, I think it's a big advantage. if you just switch up your style and try to pull as much as possible, playing effeciently, use cooldowns and burn em down, its better than solo for even the collection quests.