Wow refugees, what are you enjoying about the game?

[TheRevenantHero]

You know what, this person isn't wrong. I remember in BFA I joined a warfront. I noticed when I joined that it was basically over, so I jokingly and excitely said "yay I qued into one almost over, must be my lucky day" Not even joking, I was removed 10 seconds later and then got "lol" whispers. People think it's funny in wow, I can't even count the amount of times I was kicked from islands for no reason at all or because I wasn't doing what the 2 people WANTED me to do. Imagine defending that, imagine, "Well you got kicked cause you didn't wanna play the game the way others wanted you to".
I've also been kicked from lfr's because I just came back to the game and wanted to do lfr to learn the fights and have been kicked for saying "Haven't done this before, i've looked it up but I still may make some mistakes"

FFXIV? never, i've never once been kicked or anything. There's also no damage meters(allowed) so the toxic level in groups is pretty non existent. If you kick someone for no reason you will get suspended. SE has done a pretty awesome job at keeping their game toxic free to the best of their ability. Everyone's also pretty friendly, the mentors are useless beyond belief and are a joke. But regular people are really nice and helpfuly

Yup, exactly. I've noticed that in Warfronts too. Like...I don't get it at all. People in WoW just love to treat people like utter trash. And like Leyre said, people are helpful in FFXIV. Both because being toxic gets you banned and because you are actively rewarded through the Mentor system when you help people. The Mentor system COULD be better but I've gotten help from them more often than not, honestly. I can see why you would see the mentor system that way though because sometimes there's people in there and I'm like "Why are you even here?"

[Nzx]

The point I'm making is that if you say anything in chat that indicates you're new, WoW players will kick you. In FFXIV, if you say you're new people will actively help you.

And the point I'm making is that you and other people who come to this forum to complain about WoW and praise FFXIV bringing up random, totally unverifiable anecdotes as your only comment on "community" is boring, and it isn't an argument. I have never once been kicked from anything in my time playing WoW for saying I was "new". There are probably literal millions of people in the same boat but they don't come to online forums to talk about it because it's not relevant.

Consider how many random dungeon groups are running in WoW at any one point in time - assuming you're being honest, even if it has literally happened to you one hundred times it's not statistically significant whatsoever.

[TheRevenantHero]

And the point I'm making is that you and other people who come to this forum to complain about WoW and praise FFXIV bringing up random, totally unverifiable anecdotes as your only comment on "community" is boring, and it isn't an argument. I have never once been kicked from anything in my time playing WoW for saying I was "new". There are probably literal millions of people in the same boat but they don't come to online forums to talk about it because it's not relevant.

Consider how many random dungeon groups are running in WoW at any one point in time - assuming you're being honest, even if it has literally happened to you one hundred times it's not statistically significant whatsoever.

Except there's plenty people in this thread who have experienced the same things. I guess THEY are all wrong too though. I don't believe you AT ALL that you've never been kicked from matchmade activity. But if you need to lie in order to make WoW look better then sure.

The fact that it happens AT ALL is the problem. People in WoW will kick you for the smallest reasons and then whisper you to laugh about it. If you kick someone from a matchmade activity and laugh at them in whispers in FFXIV, you're likely getting hit with a suspension because that's griefing. WoW pretty much encourages griefing considering how seldom Blizzard actually takes action against griefers.

[Kallisto]

There has never been a single dungeon in WoW where I wasn't immediately kicked from the group when I said I was new.

I've known people who in start zones mention they were new and get told to "get the fuck off the game." in whispers in wow. Hell even today the mentor channel has become a cesspool that's barely better than trade because people in wow think it is their job to be assholes.

But remember according to our resident wow experts. Ffxiv is a totalitarianism simulator disguised as an mmo because you can't epeen wave and belittle others for not being perfect.

I mean as games I love both wow and ffxiv. But if there's one thing I hate it's the wow community outside of rp realms.

[TheRevenantHero]

I've known people who in start zones mention they were new and get told to "get the fuck off the game." in whispers in wow. Hell even today the mentor channel has become a cesspool that's barely better than trade because people in wow think it is their job to be assholes.

Oh but apparently since a couple of people haven't seen it happen, that means it never happens. It blows my mind the lengths people will go to avoid saying anything negative about WoW.

[Dastreus]

i... i, well, being someone called out for being overprotective in these very forums... i get that. I also kinda struggle to connect with the ff14 reddit community. If i hit the right note, im showered with upvotes. If i dont... well, its dispiriting.

I just read up to here and I have to comment. The reddit is mostly shit-tier. I could put a simple question on there and it gets downvoted for no reason. Garbage reddit community. The actual people in-game are much better, from my experience. Don't play on a raider server, if you're having trouble with the community. It's probably that.

[Kallisto]

Oh but apparently since a couple of people haven't seen it happen, that means it never happens. It blows my mind the lengths people will go to avoid saying anything negative about WoW.

Wouldn't be surprised if they're the ones instigating the kicks. Because heaven forbid that rage fire casm dungeon takes 17 minutes and not 14 because new person is learning and isn't in full heirlooms.

[TheRevenantHero]

Wouldn't be surprised if they're the ones instigating the kicks. Because heaven forbid that rage fire casm dungeon takes 17 minutes and not 14 because new person is learning and isn't in full heirlooms.

They probably are, tbh. They also likely talk shit about FFXIV because they were super nasty to people in game and got hit with a ban for it.

[Fus Ro Yay]

Enjoying the freedom that comes with the job system a lot, got my Gunbreaker as a main and have been enjoying playing astro, RDM and samurai in various bits of content.
finished making my first resistance weapon too, while grindy it felt extremely rewarding when finishing it. other than that i love the heck out of triple triad , just 50 cards away from a complete deck now

also managed to get my hands on a large house in shirogane like a proper weeb, so i've been spending way too much time and Gil doing housing content.

[Echo of Soul]

I doubt people asked for BLU as limited job and Dancer as boring physical ranged DPS with some "support" (that "support" being low potency heal and small damage buff at the cost of personal DPS). I also doubt people wanted dancer more than e.g. Necromancer, Geomancer or Chemist. Hrothgar are little more than roegadyn with 4 cat heads and were probably quickly slapped together to somewhat mitigate obvious shitshow with gender-locked races. Ishgard housing should've come with Heavensward, but they've managed to promise it in Shadowbringers and delay until way after Endwalker release. Same thing with Viera headgear, it shouldn't have been a problem in the first place.

That's why we have game designers. If players got everything they asked for games would be horrible since players don't make good game designers.
A proper game designer takes what players ask for and mold it in to something that's feasible, something that fits and something that works.
Blue Mage for example had to work in a particular way due to past FF titles, but if they had made it a regular job it would've been so overpowered that all other jobs would've been redundant. Instead of scrapping the idea they made a compromise where they could give the players what they wanted, but it couldn't be used in current content and mess up the job balance.

[Nzx]

Except there's plenty people in this thread who have experienced the same things. I guess THEY are all wrong too though. I don't believe you AT ALL that you've never been kicked from matchmade activity. But if you need to lie in order to make WoW look better then sure.

Ahh yes of course, your anecdote > my anecdote because I must be lying. I'm glad you finally identified the problem with this weak-ass attempt at an argument.

[Rogalicus]

That's why we have game designers. If players got everything they asked for games would be horrible since players don't make good game designers.
A proper game designer takes what players ask for and mold it in to something that's feasible, something that fits and something that works.
Blue Mage for example had to work in a particular way due to past FF titles, but if they had made it a regular job it would've been so overpowered that all other jobs would've been redundant. Instead of scrapping the idea they made a compromise where they could give the players what they wanted, but it couldn't be used in current content and mess up the job balance.

The only class fantasy for blue mage is that they use monster spells that could have been acquired in job quests. Even adding stuff like Bad Breath would have hardly mattered as bosses are immune to statuses and they could have given it long cooldown to make it adequate for dungeons.

[TheRevenantHero]

Ahh yes of course, your anecdote > my anecdote because I must be lying. I'm glad you finally identified the problem with this weak-ass attempt at an argument.

I didn't identify anything. It's pretty well known that the people who run LFD in WoW are toxic and enjoy kicking people out of groups for the smallest things. The only thing you proved was that you're part of that toxic example.

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Same goes for XIV, like when people claim that no one tells tanks to wall-to-wall pull.

I never said it never happens unlike Nzx's claim about WoW. I said I have personally never seen it in all of my time playing FFXIV. So if it does happen, it's likely incredibly rare.

[Nzx]

I didn't identify anything. It's pretty well known that the people who run LFD in WoW are toxic and enjoy kicking people out of groups for the smallest things. The only thing you proved was that you're part of that toxic example.

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I never said it never happens unlike Nzx's claim about WoW. I said I have personally never seen it in all of my time playing FFXIV. So if it does happen, it's likely incredibly rare.

Seriously dude? You're correctly identifying why anecdotes are useless when you're trying to have these kind of discussions but then totally ignoring that in favour of suggesting that your own anecdotes are fact for no other reason than you say they are. In your anecdotes, WoW players kick you 100% of the time for saying you're new, and 0% of players you've ever seen have kicked someone in FF14 for the same thing. In the anecdotes myself and Bovinity Divinity have presented, 100% of players have never once kicked me from matchmade content, and some number of players have a "go go go" attitude in FF14 dungeons as well.

You're saying that your anecdotal experience of FF14 means that it's "incredibly rare" that bad things ever happen in that game, and also that your anecdotal experience means "people who run LFD in WoW are toxic", but completely discounting the anecdotal experience of others and calling it lies.

As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Some people in WoW kick new players, some handhold new players. Some people in FF14 want speed and efficiency, some want to chill. Your argument is similar to someone saying their train has never been late so it's just a fact that trains are never late, or that they've never experienced issues with the brakes in their car so they can't possibly be a faulty part.

[TheRevenantHero]

Seriously dude? You're correctly identifying why anecdotes are useless when you're trying to have these kind of discussions but then totally ignoring that in favour of suggesting that your own anecdotes are fact for no other reason than you say they are. In your anecdotes, WoW players kick you 100% of the time for saying you're new, and 0% of players you've ever seen have kicked someone in FF14 for the same thing. In the anecdotes myself and Bovinity Divinity have presented, 100% of players have never once kicked me from matchmade content, and some number of players have a "go go go" attitude in FF14 dungeons as well.

You're saying that your anecdotal experience of FF14 means that it's "incredibly rare" that bad things ever happen in that game, and also that your anecdotal experience means "people who run LFD in WoW are toxic", but completely discounting the anecdotal experience of others and calling it lies.

As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Some people in WoW kick new players, some handhold new players. Some people in FF14 want speed and efficiency, some want to chill. Your argument is similar to someone saying their train has never been late so it's just a fact that trains are never late, or that they've never experienced issues with the brakes in their car so they can't possibly be a faulty part.

Yeah sorry but anyone who says they never see people get kicked from matchmade activity in WoW is an outright liar. Or they're always the one initiating the kicks. I also never said what you claimed never happened. I just don't believe that it's happened often at all because the FFXIV community isn't a bunch of toxic quasi-speedrunners like WoW.

In all 12 years I played WoW, there has never been a single instance in matchmade activities where a person was willing to be genuinely helpful to a newer player. It's pretty widely known that the WoW community is exceptionally toxic so I find hilarious how vehement you are about avoiding saying anything negative about WoW. But it's fine. If you dislike FFXIV so much, then don't play it. The community will be better off.

[Nzx]

Yeah sorry but anyone who says they never see people get kicked from matchmade activity in WoW is an outright liar. Or they're always the one initiating the kicks. I also never said what you claimed never happened. I just don't believe that it's happened often at all because the FFXIV community isn't a bunch of toxic quasi-speedrunners like WoW.

In all 12 years I played WoW, there has never been a single instance in matchmade activities where a person was willing to be genuinely helpful to a newer player. It's pretty widely known that the WoW community is exceptionally toxic so I find hilarious how vehement you are about avoiding saying anything negative about WoW. But it's fine. If you dislike FFXIV so much, then don't play it. The community will be better off.

Okay, I'm done. Someone could slap you in the face with actual data and statistics and you'd ignore them in favour of the decisions you've already made based on your own perception, similar to how many people think Covid is a "hoax" because they don't know anyone who actually died. Enjoy living in your own reality my guy.

[Kallisto]

I never said it never happens unlike Nzx's claim about WoW. I said I have personally never seen it in all of my time playing FFXIV. So if it does happen, it's likely incredibly rare.

I think for me it happened twice. Once was a guildie in a guild group and we were testing their limits in a dungeon for a laugh intentionally trying to see how much we could pull without dying. The other was a healer who said "You can pull if you want I got this." but I told them I was new at tanking and they were cool with me pulling fewer mobs.

[Thestrawman]

Okay, I'm done. Someone could slap you in the face with actual data and statistics and you'd ignore them in favour of the decisions you've already made based on your own perception, similar to how many people think Covid is a "hoax" because they don't know anyone who actually died. Enjoy living in your own reality my guy.

So you're getting pissy because you called anecdotal evidence bullshit and then no one believes your bullshit evidence? Maybe if you brought this actual data and statistics you claim to have people would believe you? Nah, better to throw a tantrum and cry about how stupid everyone else is being right?

[TheRevenantHero]

Okay, I'm done. Someone could slap you in the face with actual data and statistics and you'd ignore them in favour of the decisions you've already made based on your own perception, similar to how many people think Covid is a "hoax" because they don't know anyone who actually died. Enjoy living in your own reality my guy.

lmfao there are literally people in this thread who will also say that WoW's matchmaking community is utter trash. There are plenty of people in this thread that agree that WoW's community in general is super toxic. The way you're getting super angry about this pretty much tells me you played FFXIV for a bit but then got banned because you were nasty as hell to people. So now you're here trying to talk crap about the game.

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I think for me it happened twice. Once was a guildie in a guild group and we were testing their limits in a dungeon for a laugh intentionally trying to see how much we could pull without dying. The other was a healer who said "You can pull if you want I got this." but I told them I was new at tanking and they were cool with me pulling fewer mobs.

Yeah but that's something that you actually planned in the first example. And in the second example, you had a super confident healer.

[Echo of Soul]

Okay, I'm done. Someone could slap you in the face with actual data and statistics and you'd ignore them in favour of the decisions you've already made based on your own perception, similar to how many people think Covid is a "hoax" because they don't know anyone who actually died. Enjoy living in your own reality my guy.

Just out of curiosity, where is your data and statistics that support your claims?
I'm not saying that it's true but if a lot of people on the Internet are saying that WoW players are toxic and a lot of people are saying that FFXIV players are nice there could be something to it.