TBC HC dungeons hard or nah?

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

I am confident that your statement is a lie. Mobs get a sweeping strike buff, if there are two in a pack, the melee can die instantly, by just missing a buff. In BF, small little ground effects can twoshot any DPS, and likely kill a tank if we wasnt topped. In BF you have to carefully deal with the adds before the 2nd boss, else the tank dies withing 0.5sec. In many dungeons, didnt remember if a mob fears -> wipe. Didn't remember x pat, and you cc along their path -> wipe.

I am not saying that heroic dungeons are hard, I am doing easily 5 hcs each day, and did each heroic at least 2/3 times. Their mechanics are very easy, but have a small margin for error. M0 on the other hand are braindead.

Not a lie. You were missing my point where I said at launch of SL = going as soon as they opened with Nyalotha epics/blue hc gear.

[facefist]

Much easier than any m+ you don't severely overgear. There are a few clunky packs but overall you can pretty much autopilot, especially because classes are very easy to play.

[Nite92]

Not a lie. You were missing my point where I said at launch of SL = going as soon as they opened with Nyalotha epics/blue hc gear.

Did both, and I disagree. M0 maybe teaches you boss mechanics, trash gets blasted away so fast, their mechanics just do not matter.

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Much easier than any m+ you don't severely overgear. There are a few clunky packs but overall you can pretty much autopilot, especially because classes are very easy to play.

The difficulty is not in your "rotation/throughput", it is mostly about knowledge. Like the SHH pack, where you need CC if you dont have a prot pala, but you actually need to wait for a pat, which you do not see quite often, and kill this pat first, else the CC'd mob will pull it and wipe you. There are just many "f you" mechanics in TBC dungeons, which makes it easier in TBC hcs to wipe, than in retail. Or MC/Gauge on tanks... Depends on your definition of difficulty now i guess.

[Akka]

Well, might be to Joey the Clicker for all we know. Some people have no trouble in +15 two chest with one player AFK while other people, with relatively the same gear are depleting it on regular basis. So depending on who you ask, +15 is either a joke or a challenge.

For all the BS splattered on these forums, the reality check is that wiping in normal instances is rather common and in heroics there is nearly always a few wipes. That's with people wearing appropriate gear (i.e. : wearing normal blues and T3, not being OVERgeared, because running heroics in raid gear is not the intended difficulty) and with people playing heroics at the moment being the rather hardcore crowd.

Don't confuse the braggarts on the forum who are somehow always the best in their group and who refers to top 100 guilds as "average", with what actually happens on the ground.

[facefist]

The difficulty is not in your "rotation/throughput", it is mostly about knowledge. Like the SHH pack, where you need CC if you dont have a prot pala, but you actually need to wait for a pat, which you do not see quite often, and kill this pat first, else the CC'd mob will pull it and wipe you. There are just many "f you" mechanics in TBC dungeons, which makes it easier in TBC hcs to wipe, than in retail. Or MC/Gauge on tanks... Depends on your definition of difficulty now i guess.

The thing is that in retail you need more knowledge (a lot more instawipe things in high m+), while also having to do the throughput. I am obviously not talking about m0, but m+ level where you wipe if you fail the mechanic. TBC hc is harder than m0 for sure.

[Flurryfang]

Its not that many of the bosses are hard, but it is surely a question about how well you are prepared.

Most groups have more than enough output to deal with all mob packs and bosses, but if you put on an elitist mentality and just push hard, wipes happen all the time. The best heroic groups are taking it slow and steady, which makes the dungeon runs really easy. But then you get the shadowpriest who pulls aggro, the prot paladin who procs CC targets or just somebody who thinks they can tank a mob only to get 2 shot....

So the dungeons are easy enough, but damm is there some people, who think they are still in retail and can do whatever they want.

[Nite92]

The thing is that in retail you need more knowledge (a lot more instawipe things in high m+), while also having to do the throughput. I am obviously not talking about m0, but m+ level where you wipe if you fail the mechanic. TBC hc is harder than m0 for sure.

Yeah, but retail is far more obvious, with ingame guides etc. There is no information about x patrol out there, so that is kind of difficulty as well.

[erifwodahs]

Its not that many of the bosses are hard, but it is surely a question about how well you are prepared.

Most groups have more than enough output to deal with all mob packs and bosses, but if you put on an elitist mentality and just push hard, wipes happen all the time. The best heroic groups are taking it slow and steady, which makes the dungeon runs really easy. But then you get the shadowpriest who pulls aggro, the prot paladin who procs CC targets or just somebody who thinks they can tank a mob only to get 2 shot....

So the dungeons are easy enough, but damm is there some people, who think they are still in retail and can do whatever they want.

Well, if you are prepared you can push as hard as you please and best groups don't go slower than needed to be "extra" safe. Best groups take harder more efficient route which requires execution and they execute on the strat. That's what people do in retail too and it's certainly not "do whatever you want" because you literally know what you will have to do at what moment or you will die. It's not elitist mentality to want to be efficient. If you fail to execute and start blaming everyone for being shit while it was your fuck up, sure, that's elitist bs, but seeking good execution is much more rewarding and gives much more pleasure than eliminating all the challenge.

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The thing is that in retail you need more knowledge (a lot more instawipe things in high m+), while also having to do the throughput. I am obviously not talking about m0, but m+ level where you wipe if you fail the mechanic. TBC hc is harder than m0 for sure.

Put m0 in context. M0 in current condition with fully unlocked conduits and everyone wearing a legendary is very much different to what we had at the start where everyone went into m0 with no legendary item, one or two conduits and 160ilvl. To compare m0 currently you would have to clear heroics with fully decked equiped raid gear.

[justandulas]

Neither tbc heroics or retail mythic+ are hard. Heroics may start harder when you’re in leveling gear, but eventually are walks in the park. M+ may never be a walk in the park at high levels, but they are remarkably easy still. Pull here, kill this, kite this, etc

Let’s not pretend any version of WoW is a high skill game because, it isn’t. You can play WoW at a high level sure, but even the best WoW players pale in comparison to like top sc2 gamers

[RobertoLarcos]

Neither tbc heroics or retail mythic+ are hard. Heroics may start harder when you’re in leveling gear, but eventually are walks in the park. M+ may never be a walk in the park at high levels, but they are remarkably easy still. Pull here, kill this, kite this, etc

Let’s not pretend any version of WoW is a high skill game because, it isn’t. You can play WoW at a high level sure, but even the best WoW players pale in comparison to like top sc2 gamers

sc2 is not a high skill game either

[justandulas]

sc2 is not a high skill game either

notice i said "top" sc2 gamers. as in, the high end.

No M+ or Mythic raid can compare difficulty and skill wise, with some of that high end competitive PVP gaming out there. It's just a fact that we WoW players have to accept. Even the top arena teams in WoW pale in comparison to something like DOTA 2, or LoL, fast paced FPS, etc.

[Doffen]

Well, might be to Joey the Clicker for all we know. Some people have no trouble in +15 two chest with one player AFK while other people, with relatively the same gear are depleting it on regular basis. So depending on who you ask, +15 is either a joke or a challenge.

Hm? Its not about it being easy or not, but if its comperable to hc dungeons in TBC. +7 maybe, SL that is, back in the day. But now, in TBC classic? A +3, top.

[anon5123]

Not at the start, but with t5 gear

"when you vastly outgear the content, it is easy"

holy shit what a shocking revelation

[Kralljin]

Hm? Its not about it being easy or not, but if its comperable to hc dungeons in TBC.

Personally, i don't find SL that difficult on heroic to begin with, the only "challenging" part are the large packs before the 2nd boss, besides that, the dungeon is pretty lenient and doesn't throw much "unfair" stuff at you.

In comparison to something such as Blood Furnace or Old Hillsbrad Foothills, it's pretty easy.

[Doffen]

Personally, i don't find SL that difficult on heroic to begin with, the only "challenging" part are the large packs before the 2nd boss, besides that, the dungeon is pretty lenient and doesn't throw much "unfair" stuff at you.

In comparison to something such as Blood Furnace or Old Hillsbrad Foothills, it's pretty easy.

SL is one of my favorite dungeons of all time, and while it could be hefty with the large packs as you say, the bosses etc isn't really hard. Just noticed SL was brought up as one of the hardest, and I agree with that, but as you mention, Blood Furnace got some nasty trash and was heavy on the tanks.

Back then Arcatraz was the one I thought was hardest by a long shot, with SL/Shattered/Blood Furnace behind.

[Ector]

With proper CC, its all been pretty faceroll for us. Aside from fufilling certain requirements like sr gear for the tank on Pandemonius, no real hoops to jump through. Just know the fights, dont pull extra, dont break cc, ezpz.

[baseballfan]

So far not really that hard.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

No 5 man content in any version of the game will ever be difficult now that we have seen Mythic+.
The timer and affixes change everything, and every other version of dungeons will never feel hard again.

I'm sure TBC heroics were tuned to be hard or whatever, but with infinite tries, and so many solutions to the few problems, its impossible for me to think any dungeon content prior to MoP could ever be difficult.

[Heathy]

its just tuned around the characters and stats, proportionally the mobs, at least some of them hit extremely hard compared to the amount of hp the tank and the rest of the group has. the limited amount of abilities and oh shit buttons like shield wall still being a 30 minute cooldown. you tend to just get screwed by thing like ppl being feared into new packs of mobs or, the healer not anticipating the amount of damage the tank is going to take. stunlocks, mind controls. these things can sometimes domino a group very quickly. threat is difficult to hold when you're tabbing through 5 targets and the gcd is 1 second. its clunkier than it is in more modern versions. the threat is more twitchy, and the recovery just isn't that great, kiting works to some degree but some mobs are immune to that and will just catch up to the person kiting and one shot them.

[Sensa1]

I healed as a paladin, last night I cleared shadowlabs with 1 CC from a mage and I did shattered halls the other day with 0 CC, we had 5 wipes due to "situations" but over all it was fine, we cleared SH with saving all the people that were going to be executed, it was also the first time I healed it period, with T3 paladin gear and some new items.

I just don't understand the mentality...a little "CC" would have probably totally avoided those "situations" you encountered and been much more efficient in the process by sparing you all the time running back and rebuffing after those 5 wipes...