Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Bodakane]

Good luck, explaining to BernieBros how the senate works. How do you undo 5 years of magical thinking? Which may or may not have been negatively reinforced by "the Algorithm".

Looks like popcorn for lunch today!


There is an entirely reasonable path to 53 Senators in 2022 that doesn't rely on anything crazy.
Hold the 4 lean-D seats (all Dem incumbents in states Biden won).
Target 3 other winnable seats; Incumbent WI, Open PA, and Open NC.


Also looks like the 4th Biden judge gets confirmed today, on the powerful DC Court of Appeals.

Explain to me how the Dems are going to retain control without voter protection and all the Repub fuckery and cheating we cannot stop.Jesus christ that should have been a home fucking run, to get voter protections passed and nothing. Now we have McConnel vowing to block any SC opening all while have this super special majority.

You and your bernie obsession has blinded you to the bullshit we're facing.

[Edge-]

You don't understand.

I could say the same thing to you.

They will lie and cheat their way to power and we can't stop them from doing it, because this wafer thin majority you guys are creaming your jeans over is weak.

Who's creaming their jeans over it? Fuckin nobody, that's who. If you haven't noticed nobody likes Manchin here outside of his existence as a (D) to give Democrats the "majority".

And how are you gonna force Manchin/Sinema to vote to kill the filibuster wholesale given their extremely vocal opposition? How do you apply pressure to them that doesn't push them to flip parties or stick it to Democrats on other issues? I mean shit, we've seen both act out of lockstep with their own constituency, so until there are replacements for them they're problems to work around.

A lot of the time, life is just unfair and shitty. This is one of those times.

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Now we have McConnel vowing to block any SC opening all while have this super special majority.

In 2024 yo, with him back as Majority Leader. If the current 50/50 split is still there in 2024 there's nothing McConell can do about it.

[Omega10]

I would like to point out that McConnell has regained his authority and his power and has gotten past his past troubles.

This is great for Trump supporters, and great for the republican party. The republican party is now the party of Trump, and there is a good chance they will WIN as the party of Trump. This is a huge turn around for McConnell, and also for the republican party.

The problem is: this will be pretty hard to repel. Having said that, there is a 100% chance that the political climate will be much different next year. It could very easily swing back into a much more democratic favorable environment.

[Edge-]

The problem is: this will be pretty hard to repel.

I'm hoping that some of the reports we've seen of Republican voters staying home because they buy into the "election fraud" nonsense and don't want to waste their time continues, and expands. The more Republican voters decide not to vote in "sham elections", the less effective Republican ratfucking will be.

[PACOX]

When? When, exactly, did the self-proclaimed "grim reaper of progressive legislation" floor left policies?

I mean does not. Typo.

[Themius]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/jus...ssian-n1270730

Damn neoliberal pro-austerity Biden administration releasing Reality Winner from prison early! He's not different than Trump, I tells ya!

I don't think many people have said he is no different than Trump when it comes to domestic issues. When it comes to foreign policy... Biden so far hasn't been too terribly off Clinton... or Bush or Obama or Trump.

[Edge-]

I don't think many people have said he is no different than Trump when it comes to domestic issues.

I've heard otherwise. I heard he was gonna cut spending and not do any more stimulus at all! Raising taxes on people in poverty! Oh the dreadful things he'd do!

When it comes to foreign policy... Biden so far hasn't been too terribly off Clinton... or Bush or Obama or Trump.

In what ways? What has he done to this end? Specifically the comparison to Trump?

[Bodakane]

I could say the same thing to you.



Who's creaming their jeans over it? Fuckin nobody, that's who. If you haven't noticed nobody likes Manchin here outside of his existence as a (D) to give Democrats the "majority".

And how are you gonna force Manchin/Sinema to vote to kill the filibuster wholesale given their extremely vocal opposition? How do you apply pressure to them that doesn't push them to flip parties or stick it to Democrats on other issues? I mean shit, we've seen both act out of lockstep with their own constituency, so until there are replacements for them they're problems to work around.

A lot of the time, life is just unfair and shitty. This is one of those times.

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In 2024 yo, with him back as Majority Leader. If the current 50/50 split is still there in 2024 there's nothing McConell can do about it.

Its like you're either ignoring that the Republicans are literally gaming voting as we speak to set themselves up for the future, or you just believe pixie farts are going to prevent it from happening.

And you guys are the ones super excited about this nothing majority, because you guys keep harping on it like it's important. I'm not suggesting there is anything we can do about those two assholes. But i also think its batshit to be touting this majority that is so fucking weak due to them we cannot even protect fucking voting rights.

With what the Repubs are doing across the country by gutting voting rights, what makes you think he won't be the majority in 2024...which is my point

[Edge-]

Its like you're either ignoring that the Republicans are literally gaming voting as we speak to set themselves up for the future, or you just believe pixie farts are going to prevent it from happening.

And you guys are the ones super excited about this nothing majority, because you guys keep harping on it like it's important.

None of that seems like a way to get Manchin/Sinema to back killing the filibuster, which remains like, the fucking problem since neither wants to. Hell, Manchin is against the voting rights bill despite 70%+ approval for it in his god-damned home state.

We're excited that there's a Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, and if you'd been reading in the months leading into and after the election you would know that a great many of us spent quite a bit of time cautioning about the limits that this razor-thin majority would have specifically for situations like this.

The majority is important, even if it's not allowing the Democrats to get through a lot of what they want to do. Preventing McConnell from controlling the Senate is a huge fucking win that I think y'all don't fully appreciate.

[Benggaul]

Its like you're either ignoring that the Republicans are literally gaming voting as we speak to set themselves up for the future, or you just believe pixie farts are going to prevent it from happening.

And you guys are the ones super excited about this nothing majority, because you guys keep harping on it like it's important. I'm not suggesting there is anything we can do about those two assholes. But i also think its batshit to be touting this majority that is so fucking weak due to them we cannot even protect fucking voting rights.

Wow, at this point I think you're just being deliberately obtuse, because it's been made very clear from just about everyone here that nobody is particularly happy that the razor thin majority isn't enough to get important, pressing legislation passed. What everyone has been saying is that 1) at least things like confirming judges and other, "lesser" legislation can still get through--both still important--and 2) keeping McConnell from power--you know, the guy who kept pretty much any decent Democrat-backed legislation from the floor for years--is preferable to the alternative.

Literally nobody in here is "creaming their jeans" over things as they stand, so you might want to stop wasting your time building that strawman. What some have said, however, is that we have to make the best of what we have and it could be worse. Nobody here likes Manchin. Most here recognize, however, that with him having a (D) by his name then Democrats can at least push some things through (if not the big-ticket items) and keep McConnell and the GOP from further ass-fucking the country for at least two years. Nobody is kicking their heels up at this situation.

[Bodakane]

None of that seems like a way to get Manchin/Sinema to back killing the filibuster, which remains like, the fucking problem since neither wants to. Hell, Manchin is against the voting rights bill despite 70%+ approval for it in his god-damned home state.

We're excited that there's a Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, and if you'd been reading in the months leading into and after the election you would know that a great many of us spent quite a bit of time cautioning about the limits that this razor-thin majority would have specifically for situations like this.

The majority is important, even if it's not allowing the Democrats to get through a lot of what they want to do. Preventing McConnell from controlling the Senate is a huge fucking win that I think y'all don't fully appreciate.

Its not important because in 2022 its probably over due to the Dems not being able to pass voter protections.

And again the whole reason we're talking about this is because a bunch you were talking about how important this majority is. If we could protect voters I'd agree it was important, but since we cannot it's over. All we did is prolong the inevitable by two years.

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Wow, at this point I think you're just being deliberately obtuse, because it's been made very clear from just about everyone here that nobody is particularly happy that the razor thin majority isn't enough to get important, pressing legislation passed. What everyone has been saying is that 1) at least things like confirming judges and other, "lesser" legislation can still get through--both still important--and 2) keeping McConnell from power--you know, the guy who kept pretty much any decent Democrat-backed legislation from the floor for years--is preferable to the alternative.

Literally nobody in here is "creaming their jeans" over things as they stand, so you might want to stop wasting your time building that strawman. What some have said, however, is that we have to make the best of what we have and it could be worse. Nobody here likes Manchin. Most here recognize, however, that with him having a (D) by his name then Democrats can at least push some things through (if not the big-ticket items) and keep McConnell and the GOP from further ass-fucking the country for at least two years. Nobody is kicking their heels up at this situation.

What the fuck ever, go back two pages and see what I was responding to before you get all incredulous.

[Omega10]

I'm hoping that some of the reports we've seen of Republican voters staying home because they buy into the "election fraud" nonsense and don't want to waste their time continues, and expands. The more Republican voters decide not to vote in "sham elections", the less effective Republican ratfucking will be.

Oh there are a lot of things that can still go wrong for republicans and right for democrats.

The anti-mask / anti-vaccine memes that have been so effective for republicans up until now are getting old for a lot of people. And the utterly weak pathetic psychotic behavior that is exhibited for example on airlines will start to turn people off. The "turning people off" part should have already happened. But republicans are trying to build upon one of the few draws that they have, and overstaying their welcome.

On the one hand they won the anti-mask wars, and are beneffitting politically quite a bit from it. In another year when the Delta Mutation is overcome by an even stronger Gamma or Omicron Mutation that sweeps the country - well all the blame will go on anti-mask republicans. The Delta Mutation reportedly has a limited ability to overcome current vaccines, and it is likely that further mutations will be even better at overcoming vaccines.

Trump supporters in red states that are on unemployment now have to ask themselves, and answer to others, about just WHY it's so important that they don't get the President Biden Stimulus Unemployment Benefit. And why it's so important that Bezos and Gates and others at that income level pay so little in taxes. Coal miners are starting to come around to the Hillary Proposal of Federal Job Training for themselves - Trump promised them jobs but did not deliver. He had 4 years to help them out, and he just did not do it.

People in rural America have to notice that the recent Texas winter storm caused a lot of money to transfer from working class Trump supporters to Jim Jones and other fossil fuel giants. And the big cyber attack that "Russia" did on fossil fuel companies led to higher gasoline prices causing money to be transferred from them - to the fossil fuel companies and Russia. A cyber attack on the meat companies led to higher prices on meats which once again transfers money from them to others. Meanwhile, Republicans are forcefully and repeatedly yelling basically PEOPLE DOWN ON THEIR FINANCIAL LUCK ARE LAZY AND DESERVE THEIR FATE AND ARE DESTROYING THE US ECONOMY BY NOT TAKING JOBS AT LOW WAGES. Trump supporters are a lot of the people that are down on their luck and having a rough time financially.

There are many other things that I could go on about, but republicans are trying to prop up a house made of sand. A Texas republican politician, I forget which one, basically admitted (bragged???) that if it weren't for him manipulating voting rules in favor of republicans, Texas would have already been as blue as Georgia. Blue for the first time with its electoral votes going for President Biden.

Right now democrats have run into some troubles. Everything happening now will be forgotten in a year - well in a month! Right now if I were to bet on the election of 2022, I would bet on republicans doing well, taking the Senate and the House. They currently have a lot of momentum. But remember, it wasn't that long ago that democrats had the momentum. And although McConnell is sitting quite pretty right now, he has fallen in behind Trump and his supporters. This could cost him and the republican party quite dearly by next year.

For all the bickering here, I am struck by that, with the exception of Milchshake, the differences between the two wings of the democratic party are pretty minimal. Milchshake obviously hates Sanders and his supporters as much, or probably even more, than Trump and his supporters. So I keep that thought in mind when I read anything he posts. Everyone else is mostly on the same page, and even the fights over tactics aren't really that substantial.

So this is my take on it. The US is teetering on the edge, but there is a decent chance that we'll survive this crisis. FINGERS CROSSED!!!

[Edge-]

Its not important because in 2022 its probably over due to the Dems not being able to pass voter protections.

It is important. Did you like what was in the American Rescue Act? Because with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, it would have been very unlikely we'd have seen that bill pass the Senate and be signed into law. Like some of those judges that are starting to get confirmed? They'd be gone too, no way McConnell would bring them up for a vote, and with a 51/49 split I don't even know if they'd be able to deadlock in committee, much less actually make it out.

You act like there's something to do to force Manchin/Sinema to vote to kill the filibuster, but you keep playing coy and refusing to tell us what it is.

And again the whole reason we're talking about this is because a bunch you were talking about how important this majority is.

It is, even if it's a razor thin majority we spent literal months repeatedly saying wouldn't be super productive given that there's no wiggle room and moderate Democrats would shit things up.

We're not fortune tellers, I swear. We just have been paying attention to the Senate and understand the rules and current state of politics.

If we could protect voters I'd agree it was important, but since we cannot it's over. All we did is prolong the inevitable by two years.

Sure, let's just pack it in. The Democratic party is done y'all. Nothing at all can be done, not even worth fighting.

How the fuck do y'all expect to win if you give up so easily?

[Bodakane]

It is important. Did you like what was in the American Rescue Act? Because with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, it would have been very unlikely we'd have seen that bill pass the Senate and be signed into law. Like some of those judges that are starting to get confirmed? They'd be gone too, no way McConnell would bring them up for a vote, and with a 51/49 split I don't even know if they'd be able to deadlock in committee, much less actually make it out.

You act like there's something to do to force Manchin/Sinema to vote to kill the filibuster, but you keep playing coy and refusing to tell us what it is.

No I don't. I literally said it in the post #9064.

It is, even if it's a razor thin majority we spent literal months repeatedly saying wouldn't be super productive given that there's no wiggle room and moderate Democrats would shit things up.

We're not fortune tellers, I swear. We just have been paying attention to the Senate and understand the rules and current state of politics.

Gahhh. Fortune tellers? Dafuq are you talking about? All I said is that this majority you are touting and you fucking are touting it, is not that great because the Repubs are gaming the system to win and any and all progress we've made will be gone. I've been paying attention too. That's why I'm saying what I'm saying.

Sure, let's just pack it in. The Democratic party is done y'all. Nothing at all can be done, not even worth fighting.

How the fuck do y'all expect to win if you give up so easily?

Jesus christ. If the Repubs get power back in 2022, that's it. They will not relinquish it. We are literally teetering on facism. But keep dancing in circles about $1600 checks and a couple of federal judges. then in 2022 when this shit is over I cannot wait to hear about the majority we had for two years while voting rights were gutted.

[Edge-]

If the Repubs get power back in 2022, that's it. They will not relinquish it.

You're kinda literally proving my point here.

But keep dancing in circles about $1600 checks and a couple of federal judges.

I'm showing that the "majority" now has positive effects.

What's your solution to stop this for 2022? How are you going to force Sinema/Manchin to vote to kill the filibuster? You keep skirting this issue without ever providing any proposal to do so, you just complain about how unfair it is and like, yeah, it's shitty and unfair and awful. But that doesn't change the fact that it's our reality.

then in 2022 when this shit is over I cannot wait to hear about the majority we had for two years while voting rights were gutted.

Gutted at the state level, with a majority that was never going to be able to pass something like comprehensive electoral reform even through reconciliation given the makeup of that majority going into this term.

Want to talk about where to make some REAL gains on this issue? States. The local level. Repeat the Republican playbook that let them take so many states and turn the tables, there's immense power at the state level if a political party controls enough state governments and has a plan in place to wield it. The federal government is immensely powerful, but it's far from the only power.

[Bodakane]

You're kinda literally proving my point here.



I'm showing that the "majority" now has positive effects.

What's your solution to stop this for 2022? How are you going to force Sinema/Manchin to vote to kill the filibuster? You keep skirting this issue without ever providing any proposal to do so, you just complain about how unfair it is and like, yeah, it's shitty and unfair and awful. But that doesn't change the fact that it's our reality.



Gutted at the state level, with a majority that was never going to be able to pass something like comprehensive electoral reform even through reconciliation given the makeup of that majority going into this term.

Want to talk about where to make some REAL gains on this issue? States. The local level. Repeat the Republican playbook that let them take so many states and turn the tables, there's immense power at the state level if a political party controls enough state governments and has a plan in place to wield it. The federal government is immensely powerful, but it's far from the only power.

So i'm clear....

The repubs screwing with voter rights so they can increase their odds of winning future elections is proof that having a thin majority in the Senate even though cannot pass voter protections is awesome? And also federal level voter protection will not help states during voting for the...checks notes....senate seats but the way to make change is on the state level?

Yeah, my bad what was i thinking, we have them exactly where we want them.

[beanman12345]

I think we'll hold GA, because I think Kemp will be on the ticket which will piss too many and they'll boycott again.

AZ is concerning, but a lot of shit they've been trying is unconstitutional, so hopefully DoJ does their job there.

I'm fairly sure we'll flip WI. I'm less sure but still fairly sure we'll Flip PA. So if we lose the above 2, and keep NH(which isn't a sure thing) that gives us 51. 2022 honestly looks worse for Republicans than Dems if it weren't for the election fuckery in those first 2 states mentioned. Just have to keep the house. We'll be flipping at least 1 in the house to democrat in Illinois downstate St Louis Suburbs.

[Edge-]

The repubs screwing with voter rights so they can increase their odds of winning future elections is proof that having a thin majority in the Senate even though cannot pass voter protections is awesome?

If you strip away all the actual context, sure. But literally nobody is saying this.

Thin majority? Good, it prevents Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

Thin majority? Bad, Democrats can get many of their priorities through, like voting rights.

On the whole (Preparation-H, it feels good on the hole), it's a net positive, not a net negative.

And also federal level voter protection will not help states during voting for the...checks notes....senate seats but the way to make change is on the state level?

It will, but right now it's not terribly likely. And if Democrats can make gains in the state the point becomes moot since they can address these issues at the state level.

Yeah, my bad what was i thinking, we have them exactly where we want them.

Literally nobody has been saying this since ever.

[Benggaul]

I think we'll hold GA, because I think Kemp will be on the ticket which will piss too many and they'll boycott again.

AZ is concerning, but a lot of shit they've been trying is unconstitutional, so hopefully DoJ does their job there.

I'm fairly sure we'll flip WI. I'm less sure but still fairly sure we'll Flip PA. So if we lose the above 2, and keep NH(which isn't a sure thing) that gives us 51. 2022 honestly looks worse for Republicans than Dems if it weren't for the election fuckery in those first 2 states mentioned. Just have to keep the house. We'll be flipping at least 1 in the house to democrat in Illinois downstate St Louis Suburbs.

If the Dems can hold what they have and flip just one seat, then both Manchin and Sinema become irrelevant. 49 GOP versus 51 Democrats (and Independents) minus Manchin and Sinema is 49. Harris casts the tiebreaker.

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Literally nobody has been saying this since ever.

Ayep, another strawman.

[Themius]

I've heard otherwise. I heard he was gonna cut spending and not do any more stimulus at all! Raising taxes on people in poverty! Oh the dreadful things he'd do!



In what ways? What has he done to this end? Specifically the comparison to Trump?

The status of Cuba under Biden's Administration, which is currently refusing to undo what Trump has done and go back to Obama era changes.

https://thehill.com/policy/internati...-cuba-policies

The Biden administration’s first major move on Cuba is the strongest signal yet it has little appetite to reverse Trump-era policies toward the island nation.

The State Department this past week listed Cuba as among those “not cooperating fully with United States antiterrorism efforts,” renewing a determination first made in 2020.

For those in favor of normalizing U.S. ties with Cuba, the move was seen as a purely political decision, but one that suggests the Biden administration may continue with the hardline approach taken by former President Trump.

The whole Venezuelan issue where Biden deemed someone else the real president, a move the EU also took and then backed away from never mind the guy's party holds no seats in the government and literally was publically calling for a coup and saying he would absolve anyone involved in said coup...

The bombing shortly into his term of some militia under dubious reasonings just for it to come out later that we don't "really" know whether that milita had the ties America used to bomb them.

The block against Yemen which we are aiding in... the statement that we would not aid Saudi Arabia with their offensive war in Yemen while that very war is considered DEFENSIVE by the USA which opens up the possibility to sell weapons for those means. The fact that Biden's Administration has stated they will remove Yemen from sanctions but will also claim that up to 80% of the country are terrorists and therefore would be sanctioning 80% of Yemen... because of the Houthis who were our allies... are now terrorist because Saudi's say so...

The continuation of arm sales to Saudi Arabia by other means which were left intact entirely..

The bogusness on the border... telling people fleeing the conditions in south America "don't come here".. what's the excuse now that we have the vaccination vastly under control?

Turning away of Haitian asylum seekers, the expulsion of African asylum seekers...

The threat of sanctions/tarrifs against the UK and others for taxes on online services by American companies.

There is more... but I think I said before that for people who have to put up with American foreign policies there isn't a huge difference... on domestic issues for those that live in America... there is a substantial difference between them.