Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[agentsi]

Jesus christ this thread is filled with... very...special people...

Paying for a boost does not equal "winning". You will never be part of the world's first race, or a mythic prog guild, by PAYING for boosts. It just won't happen.

There is literally NOTHING about this fucking game that is Pay2Win. Other than you fucking crybabies being mad someone can drop $20 on a token and get some gold. Which again, isn't paying to win, it's a convenience fee. Gas stations charge more money than a grocery store, why? Because its convenient to the consumer to buy something they only need one of while they're there getting gas.

I feel like most of these idiots have never played a TRUE Pay2Win game. Like the Korean ARPGs where you NEED to buy cash shop items in order to upgrade your weapons and gear. And if you don't you risk breaking the item in the upgrade, meaning you lose it entirely, then have to go through ALL the steps to get it again and upgrade it again. That is a bullshit type of game.

NOTHING in Blizzard cash shop is required or even helpful, in regards to you earning Mythic kills or high M+ clears. Literally, fucking, nothing.

So no, Wow is not pay2win, not even fucking remotely.

[Lochton]

TCG problem is that is no longer available. It used to be sold as a card game, not the "players" are selling them for super expensive prices. TCG is not P2W, is just a bunch of cosmetics that had a "chance" to be found on the card game. I don't see the Pay To Win here....

Tokens is a super direct way to win the game since you get around 190k of gold for just paying it with cash. And doing nothing....

The TCG has already been purchased from the vendors/retailers, and Blizzard got their share, so technically, sold by Blizzard at one point, now being sold (still) by players for gold or real money. So, as someone mentioned, there is apparently a "visual advantage" as well as an "economic advantage" of dealing with TCG.

The token is not direct unless you call game-time P2W? This is when people started mentioning 'indirect P2W' because it is the only way that the token could count under Pay2Win just like it would include TCG.

Someone made an example that if you purchased a token, traded it to an NPC, got BiS - that is direct P2W.
If you purchased a token (game-time), then put it on the auction house, then waiting for a player to buy it, then get gold - that would be indirect P2W if we use it as an excuse. It would be direct if you took your card, went to the store, selected the gold, got it in the mail - or - if you buy a token for real money, then sold it to a vendor to get gold.

[Doffen]

How is this thread still going? It's the same people posting from 2 weeks ago, saying the same stuff over and over. I quickly got tired of it and stepped away, but man, you guys have got perseverance!

Thats the old me. Man I kept going! THAT STAMINA!

Much better with just saying what I want like now, then maybe 1 or 2 replies, then gtfo.

NEXT TOPIC!

[rhorle]

That statement in BOLD is incorrect. Gold is a huge advantage in WoW. It allows you to pay for many things in the AH and from Players. "Reputation" is one requirement to buy mounts, but also GOLD, tons of it, specially from past expansions. What i stated is that, the background process of the TOKEN is not relevant. How the player got the gold is not relevant, in the end he sold it for cash or Game Time. That is Pay to Win for the guy that paid Cash to easily get 190k.

Of course gold can buy things. That is the whole point of it existing as a currency in the game. That still does mean you win anything by simply gaining gold. You also have to spend it. Most of the things you can spend gold on are not power related and won't fall under the definition of pay to win. If how a player spends the gold is relevant then how a player got the gold is relevant. You can't have it both ways.

Either it is just the transaction that is relevant or things linked to the transaction are relevant. Buying gold is not winning anything. It is a micro transaction paying a player for their gold with Blizzard as the middle man.

[rhorle]

You pay cash = you get gold= you win tons of gold = Pay to Win.

So you win the game buy simply having gold? What is the required amount for a "win" then? I have enough for two tokens so what did I win? Why didn't I get my Mythic gear? My CE? My KSM? Should I contact a GM to say my gold is defective?

[Darkeon]

So you win the game buy simply having gold? What is the required amount for a "win" then? I have enough for two tokens so what did I win? Why didn't I get my Mythic gear? My CE? My KSM? Should I contact a GM to say my gold is defective?

I find that we win everytime we progress through the game and accomplish a goal.
Reached level cap? Gz!
Cleared Mythic? Gz!
Got the PvP title? Gz!
Got Garrosh Shoulderpads? Gz!
I bet some of those will count as Win for multiple people, yet different people will find each of those victories to be worth differently.

What about you tell what you consider to be winning in a mmorpg.

[rhorle]

Yes. You get gold so fast than anyone else.

You said anything else was irrelevant. So you can't then use getting gold fast as part of it. This also ignores that someone else had to have got that gold to allow you to use a token. So you didn't win anything. You merely trade another player for their win. It is also funny how you say anyone with 190k gold has won the game. You have no idea why just having gold didn't get me Mythic gear? Really? Don't play dumb. You know exactly why having gold doesn't automatically get a person gear. Because gold doesn't get you a win.

If the token is working fine then I should get a Win just from having a lot of gold right? That is where you weird definitions fall apart.

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I bet some of those will count as Win for multiple people, yet different people will find each of those victories to be worth differently.

Wins in the context of pay to win are not subjective things that change based on the player. If that were the case then Pay to Win would be equal to Micro Transaction. But it is not because there is a difference between the two and not all micro transactions are considered to be pay to win. Cosmetics, titles, mounts, transmog etc are not wins.

It may be your personal goal to achieve those things but that doesn't mean you gain any power related advantage over others.

[agentsi]

indirect P2W = When you pay for a token, you are also able to store the token as Account Balance. With that you are also able to get items from the store and other games. Because of that, the Blizzard store is turned into an "indirect P2W", because not many people are able to skip the USD price tag, by just using gold. Only the people with so much gold are capable of...

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Yes you can. With enough gold, you can pay ANYTHING in WoW. Is the most powerful tool in the game to get you anything. You could pay 10 tokens and get 1,900,000g in an instant. And pay your way to win at anything. You just need the player that sells that service that you need (PVP and PVE).

So is P2W.

Are you retarded?

How can you pay, to win, in a game where you cannot be the best at anything by paying for it? You can't "win", you can maybe move from 500,000 in the rankings to maybe 250,000. But you can't PAY, and get to 1st place by doing so. So no, you cannot fucking pay to win. Gold doesn't do anything in this game, other than buy low tier boosts for M+ or PvP. You will never, ever, ever be #1 at ANYTHING in wow, by paying for it.

Stop being so fucking stupid.

[Stardrift]

Yes. Do I really need to repeat that? One involves players providing both the gold and whatever you buy with gold. The other is direct from Blizzard. There is a big difference between the two things.

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Those games are not this game though. Buying gold as you stated is not pay to win because you are not buying the win. The win is bought with gold.

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Then why did you link a definition earlier that didn't include that? Gold is not a win. Shifting the win to just having gold does not make your argument valid. There is no need to shift the goal posts just because your definition doesn't work.

I mean, it is this game. You can buy currency with cash so that you can buy power.

/Thread

[Darkeon]

Wins in the context of pay to win are not subjective things that change based on the player. If that were the case then Pay to Win would be equal to Micro Transaction. But it is not because there is a difference between the two and not all micro transactions are considered to be pay to win. Cosmetics, titles, mounts, transmog etc are not wins.

It may be your personal goal to achieve those things but that doesn't mean you gain any power related advantage over others.

A dodge it is, then.

[Stardrift]

Are you retarded?

How can you pay, to win, in a game where you cannot be the best at anything by paying for it? You can't "win", you can maybe move from 500,000 in the rankings to maybe 250,000. But you can't PAY, and get to 1st place by doing so. So no, you cannot fucking pay to win. Gold doesn't do anything in this game, other than buy low tier boosts for M+ or PvP. You will never, ever, ever be #1 at ANYTHING in wow, by paying for it.

Stop being so fucking stupid.

Purchasing any sort of advantage is winning.

Nobody here is complaining and attacking Blizzard for the wow token. So why do you get so pissed off and feel the need to lash out?

We're only stating facts here.

[rhorle]

I mean, it is this game. You can buy currency with cash so that you can buy power. /Thread

So is it the cash or the currency that enables you to buy power? Can I still buy power with out using cash? Is the game naturally designed to allow group play? Is it naturally designed to sell gear on the AH? Stop using /thread when you actually don't end anything.

[Stardrift]

So is it the cash or the currency that enables you to buy power? Can I still buy power with out using cash? Is the game naturally designed to allow group play? Is it naturally designed to sell gear on the AH? Stop using /thread when you actually don't end anything.

The cash. It lets me purchase power.

[Stardrift]

A dodge it is, then.

He's been at this for hours, just dodging all logic lol

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Simple: By completing without effort, what you are looking for...PvE, PvP, Collections, Gear...you call it. Slip the Credit card and get gold super fast, like no one else.

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So true...Why is this too hard to understand?

Because at this point, he's trolling

[kaminaris]

I don't think you have the slightest clue what Communism is. Being concerned with how much you're making per hour is a very Capitalist thing to do. And the fact that every 14k of gold in the game is, at best, derived from one hour of work helps you to valuate every gold-making activity in the game. Any activity that provides less than that (quests, bosses, callings, wq, drops etc) is an inefficient activity because you could always just be farming the raw gold.
.

You are trying to make everyone equal by bringing them down to the low threshold. Im pretty sure I know more about communism than you considering my country was communist few decades ago.

Facts:
- Game does have option to make tons of gold super fast
- Just because you lack the skill to do so is not a game fault.
- Just because people don't care enough to start AH flipping doesn't mean they are unable to do so.
- 14k via callings is not even remotely close to viable method of making gold.


A bit smarter people realized its far easier to make gold in game than to actually try to progress via game so they do buy boosts instead.

[rhorle]

if 190k of gold is not that much for you, is probably because you already collected all the mounts, pets, transmog and any other collectibles available in the AH or NPCs. Other people don't. Other people still need to complete their collections, others are starting from 0. If its not important to you, it doesnt means is not important to someone else. You get 190k gold and is a big win for the guy who gets it. 0 effort, just 1 Credit Card slip and instant gold for whatever he needs.

It takes far more then 190k to get every single thing in the game. So which is it. You win the game by collecting everything or you win the game by getting 1 token worth of gold? It isn't zero effort because you are paying for the effort of another person. You can't keep saying it takes a lot of effort to get 190k while at the same time saying it is zero effort. That doesn't work.

Yes you can. You can buy other people to carry you. It has always being a thing. You don't look at the Trade Channel do you?. Tons of spam of people selling carries for PvE and PvP for what.....yep, that's right...GOLD.

Oh. So having the gold doesn't get me the win. I have to go out and actually get the win through other players. Weird. I though you said I won the game by having a token worth of gold. That I can buy a token and win. Why is it that I have to do multiple steps in order to win when buying a token was the win. You defeat your own argument once again.

No, the definition is really clear: You Pay Money = Get Advantage = Pay To Win.

So by your definition a token is not pay to win. Because it doesn't get you an advantage. You have to ask other players to get you an advantage.

[dacoolist]

for me I still think its hilarious that people equate having good gear from being carried is pay to win.. you can't make this up, the thread is 97 pages long and people just can't understand that a game they havent even played for 10 years is still better than they are

Go back to Final Fantasy 14 Remastered or whatever its called lol

[rhorle]

The cash. It lets me purchase power.

What power do you get from having gold? Does 1 g translate to 1 item level? The cash doesn't let you purchase any power. The gold does.

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A dodge it is, then.

How is that a dodge? You don't win anything by having a mount. You don't win anything by having transmog. If a win is subjective to the individual then logging into the game can be defined as a win. Which means WoW has always been pay to win and renders any use of the term "Pay to Win" silly. Because if everything is pay to win then nothing is.

[kranur]

If winning is defined by having a mount only available in the shop then, yes.

Otherwise, as long as it's not an advantage that you can't obtain in game yourself (like private servers with overpowered custom donor only gear) or that would take you an absurd amount of time or luck to get (like for example, buying warglaives during tbc), then can't really be considered pay to win.

There is a bit of gray area where people who lack the skill to get it on their own, buy m+ or raid carries for gear. But at the end of the day, they will still lack the skill to make use of it.

[kaminaris]

Or just pay for a Token and get 190k in an instant.
Oy just pay for a Boost and skip hours or days of playing old content, and start in SL content.

Or you could just git gud and actually win the game by finishing hard content before boosts are even available.