Report: Tax Returns of the Top 25 Wealthiest in America

[Machismo]

Uh, buddy... WE can't even get to debating actual numbers, because you're not joined the discussion, yet. I'm very certain Endus' numbers would deviate from my numbers by possibly quite a lot. And why not? That's not what we're really interested in, we're interested in establishing... hey, why not tax their total wealth instead of just the annual income? To which degree? I don't know, we're not that far, yet. We're still discussing if we should do it.

Now, given your time wasting strategy for 100 pages or so, we're clear that you think taxing wealth of rich people is a stupid idea. But we'd still like you to join the conversation and say why. I mean, beyond "those poor rich people, they only exploit everyone and contribute to the destabilisation of society for personal gains, they do not deserve this extra attention!"

Which, honestly, is a fair point to have, just not one many here agree with.

The numbers have been provided, please refute me.

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Where you scrabbled some rough figures on a napkin?

Where you didn't even consider Snyder's income over the same period?

Your "math" was nonsense.



Literally one post. That's all I'm asking. One post, where you actually explain it. Just link to a prior post, you don't have to repeat it.

I keep asking, you keep refusing. I have to assume it's because you can't, and know it.

Once again, asked, answered, provided numerous times.

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Well, no, they do not. In proportion of their income and wealth, they are far from that.

They pay a higher percentage of their income than the average American.

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-of...ta-2020-update

Nope, wrong again.

[Huehuecoyotl]

And that's the problem, you guys don't want to deal with actual numbers.. because the actual numbers are a fucking nightmare. The actual numbers were given, and you guys can't defend them... only saying, "Fuck em."

You have called for taking their companies from them, multiple times.

They do contribute appropriately, just not as much s the socialists and communists want.

Fine, we get it. You have no problem with someone owning a huge chunk of a business that employs tens of thousands of people. You are happy with somebody stockpiling that huge chunk of wealth built off the effort of all those people. You don't care if it breaks society, because an individuals right to leech more money than they could spend in a thousand lifetimes is somehow sacrosanct.

The rest of us aren't sociopaths. The rest of us empathise more with the poor shits at the bottom of this mess, than they do with the people at the top (that you clearly just can't wait to join).

But for gods sake, can you just wind it in a little bit? I'd love to be able to actually follow some of the debate going on this thread, but to do that I have to wade through pages and pages of you flinging shit at the cage door. Can you maybe just leave a little space for some others to join in?

[Machismo]

Fine, we get it. You have no problem with someone owning a huge chunk of a business that employs tens of thousands of people. You are happy with somebody stockpiling that huge chunk of wealth built off the effort of all those people. You don't care if it breaks society, because an individuals right to leech more money than they could spend in a thousand lifetimes is somehow sacrosanct.

The rest of us aren't sociopaths. The rest of us empathise more with the poor shits at the bottom of this mess, than they do with the people at the top (that you clearly just can't wait to join).

But for gods sake, can you just wind it in a little bit? I'd love to be able to actually follow some of the debate going on this thread, but to do that I have to wade through pages and pages of you flinging shit at the cage door. Can you maybe just leave a little space for some others to join in?

That wealth is literally in the company itself. That's the point. That stockpile, is those thousands of employees, and those hundreds of locations.

Why do you want to take that from them?

People seem to not understand liquidity at all. They assume people like Lynsi Snyder sit on mountains of money, when the vast majority of their money is tied up in stocks, or their own companies (in her case).

[Slant]

The numbers have been provided, please refute me.

I'm not interested in specific numbers. I'm still talking about fundamental concepts here. So is anyone else, except you. Why? Because nobody wants to bog down the discussion talking about digits. That's a strategy people like you use to grind the discussion to a halt.

[Endus]

I gave them to you, and provided them previously.

"Let them divest to pay what we are forcing them to pay" is taking their fucking companies from them.

That's an unreasonably dishonest paraphrase. So egregious it's basically just a lie.

That's no different than the government deciding they want to jack up your taxes, leading you to sell your biggest asset... your house. Well, they didn't take it from you, you just divested from ownership.

Except the issue there would be the hardship imposed by being rendered homeless.

That's not a factor to a wealth tax. By definition, it cannot possibly be.

The numbers have been provided.

Enjoy!!!

https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/ultra-millionaire-tax

In what world did you think I was asking for the numbers on Warren's proposed wealth tax?

To be brutally fair, if you asked me to dig up one of my posts in this thread I'd refuse to do so because fuck if I know when I posted the exact thing you're asking for.

I would rewrite it, but that whole "quote" thing is not really feasible hehe.

If he's claiming it's easy to find, then it should be easy enough for him to find it, right? And if it'd be nearly impossible for him to locate it, asking anyone else to do so would be more unreasonable, no?

And that's the point. He claims there's a magical mystery post somewhere, but gives you no indication on where, when it was posted, or what it argued, and then shits on you for not being able to find it. If you claim it doesn't exist, he'll claim it does, but where? It's a MYSTERY!

[Slant]

That wealth is literally in the company itself. That's the point. That stockpile, is those thousands of employees, and those hundreds of locations.

Why do you want to take that from them?

Did you just unironically refer to the workforce as wealth? You know, those employees are not property, right? Man, your head's in an even darker place than I thought up until now...

[Machismo]

I'm not interested in specific numbers. I'm still talking about fundamental concepts here. So is anyone else, except you. Why? Because nobody wants to bog down the discussion talking about digits. That's a strategy people like you use to grind the discussion to a halt.

Of course you aren't, because the numbers show that the entire point is to take people's companies from them.

[Endus]

That wealth is literally in the company itself. That's the point. That stockpile, is those thousands of employees, and those hundreds of locations.

Why do you want to take that from them?

If you think employees are the property of the company they work for, hoo boy, do we have at least one Constitutional Amendment to go over with you. At a minimum.

Employees are not a component of wealth, dude.

[Slant]

If he's claiming it's easy to find, then it should be easy enough for him to find it, right? And if it'd be nearly impossible for him to locate it, asking anyone else to do so with more unreasonable, no?

And that's the point. He claims there's a magical mystery post somewhere, but gives you no indication on where, when it was posted, or what it argued, and then shits on you for not being able to find it. If you claim it doesn't exist, he'll claim it does, but where? It's a MYSTERY!

LOL, fair...

[Machismo]

Did you just unironically refer to the workforce as wealth? You know, those employees are not property, right? Man, your head's in an even darker place than I thought up until now...

My point is clear, to go after Lynsi Snyder's wealth, is to go after her company, including her very employees. No, they are not her property.

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If you think employees are the property of the company they work for, hoo boy, do we have at least one Constitutional Amendment to go over with you. At a minimum.

Employees are not a component of wealth, dude.

Employees are not property, but those jobs are tied to her net worth. Not the people.

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That's an unreasonably dishonest paraphrase. So egregious it's basically just a lie.



Except the issue there would be the hardship imposed by being rendered homeless.

That's not a factor to a wealth tax. By definition, it cannot possibly be.



In what world did you think I was asking for the numbers on Warren's proposed wealth tax?



If he's claiming it's easy to find, then it should be easy enough for him to find it, right? And if it'd be nearly impossible for him to locate it, asking anyone else to do so with more unreasonable, no?

And that's the point. He claims there's a magical mystery post somewhere, but gives you no indication on where, when it was posted, or what it argued, and then shits on you for not being able to find it. If you claim it doesn't exist, he'll claim it does, but where? It's a MYSTERY!

You want to impose a hardship of rendering them company-less.

I already provided the numbers for Lynsi, use Warren's plan... make it work.

[Shadowferal]

Because nobody wants to bog down the discussion talking about digits. That's a strategy people like you use to grind the discussion to a halt.

Pretty sure there isn't a progressing discussion here.

[Endus]

My point is clear, to go after Lynsi Snyder's wealth, is to go after her company, including her very employees. No, they are not her property.

Snyder divesting herself of ownership in In&Out does not in any way whatsoever affect the employees of that chain.

Employees are not property, but those jobs are tied to her net worth. Not the people.

That's just literally, obviously false, on its face.

They're tied to In&Out's net worth, which is not changing.

[Specialka]

The numbers have been provided, please refute me.

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Once again, asked, answered, provided numerous times.

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They pay a higher percentage of their income than the average American.

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-of...ta-2020-update

Nope, wrong again.

So what if they already pay more ? They certainly can afford to pay even more. They are the "elite" or not ? They can be an exemple to follow, even if they would pay more, they would still have more money than everyone else.

[Endus]

You want to impose a hardship of rendering them company-less.

"Being a megamillionaire who owns slightly less of a company" is not, by any functional definition, "hardship".

[Slant]

My point is clear, to go after Lynsi Snyder's wealth, is to go after her company, including her very employees. No, they are not her property.

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Employees are not property, but those jobs are tied to her net worth. Not the people.

The fuck... employees do not contribute to any measure of "wealth" in a modern state. That's a fucked up style of thinking the US eradicated a long time ago, I'd have hoped. The company's wealth comes from the services it provides, the products it produces, the assets it owns, the cash it has stashed away, those are all tangible things you can convert into monetary value. "Having someone willing to work for you for a slave salary" is not wealth. You can't sell someone to convert them into monetary value.

[Machismo]

Snyder divesting herself of ownership in In&Out does not in any way whatsoever affect the employees of that chain.



That's just literally, obviously false, on its face.

They're tied to In&Out's net worth, which is not changing.

It impacts jobs, or are you stupid enough to think such a shake-up in a family business wouldn't have impacts?

It's her company, she determines how many jobs exist. It's not physical, but she could literally end all jobs, tomorrow. I misspoke when referring to employees, merely that those employees could be out on their asses, with your push.

[Edge-]

"Being a megamillionaire who owns slightly less of a company" is not, by any functional definition, "hardship".

Imagine the yacht's they'll have to wait another year to buy, that fifth summer home in France that may now be just out of reach, needing to take their private jet out for a spin a bit less often to save on fuel.

Truly, this is a hardship none of us can appreciate and understand.

[omerome]

Once again, this is your argument. If you want to call people leeches, then at least be consistent in the methodology.

Thanks for making my point for me... let them sell their shit, so be it.

You want to push a ton of burden on them, then don't give a shit if it impacts their lives. So, how much more should we tax you?

I made no such point for you. I clearly stated that you seem to think that anyone who's not super-rich is comparable to what evasion of paying taxes that Bezos, Musk, Bloomberg, and others get away with.

How in any way can you insinuate that people in poverty are leeches when in fact many of them work super hard just so they can survive?

I am not pushing a ton of burden on these rich people, they obviously are doing very well for themselves right now mostly because of the contributions of society and many of them will still be doing very well for themselves afterward. If let's say, Lynsi Synder were to find herself in financial ruin just to pay what she should owe, that's no one's fault but her own.

To say that I should pay more. Why? I am not relevant to this discussion because I am not part of what the article of this thread is about. I am not the one who has avoided getting away with paying taxes (which by the way, for these people, measure in the billions). And if I did, the IRS would have sent a letter to me by now.

[Machismo]

"Being a megamillionaire who owns slightly less of a company" is not, by any functional definition, "hardship".

You mean less than half after 17 years. She's lose control.

[Slant]

Pretty sure there isn't a progressing discussion here.

Well, honestly, I think everyone pretty much agrees anyway. And to be honest, Machismo just locked himself into a dissenting opinion right at the very start, probably a half-assed opinion post dissing on the poor and then he got roped into justifying his fucked up view and 100 pages later his pride won't let him admit talking out of his ass and here we are...

Just forum things.